Anti-Islam filmmaker in hiding after protests

[USAgirl]

Well...if you want to hold accountable the one who killed the Americans, I don't understand why you're talking about Egyptians. The ones who raped and killed were the Libyans not the Egyptians. Although, the Egyptians did attack the embassy but I don't recall hearing about any Americans getting harmed. The ones who got harmed were the protesters by the police force.

I actually, find what you say making sense. It could be someone trying to turn people against the Christians and this happened multiple times before so it's not new stuff.

Venom maybe I wrote it wrong or you read it wrong.

I am not saying the protestors who raped and killed those American people in Lybia were Egyptian.

The guy in the US who made the film is said to be Egyptian, at first they thought he was Isreali.

It is also said he was Jewish but now they say he is crypto Christain.

I don't know if that is true either. He might be. He might be a sleeper cell of the radical Muslim groups, we will have to wait and find out more about him.

And now days later it is Yeman, Egypt, Lybia, Austrailia radical Muslim Islamist that are protesting and attacking American buildings, burning flags and chantting "death to America"

Only Lybia radicals have killed four AMericans and I think 17 or 19 wounded.

 

[senojekips]

Thanks for the gentle touch seno:mrgreen:

I don't care where in the heck in the world they are, no way no how are you going to get me to go along with, give sympathy to or understand how name calling is a reason to rape and kill and may it rain down on anyone who dared to do that and I mean rain down hard.

And it is totally obvious they don't respect the US but they sure in the heck respect our money that we hand out over and over again.

Your comments display a truly remarkable lack of understanding of Islam and it's people. No, I'd say that "respect" is definitely the wrong word, actually I'd say they laugh at you for trying to buy their allegiance. The fact is that you can only buy people for as long as they wish to be bought, and this is doubly so with Muslims as they revere their god far more than money.

Let's be clear, I don't think ALL or even the majority of Muslims go along with radical Islamic terrorist, but by sitting by in silence or fear and allowing them to do such barbaric sadistic acts in the name of their God Allah makes them just as guilty.

Without the slightest hesitation, I'd say that you are doing just as you did earlier and judging them and their religion by American (Western) standards,... and guess what? They don't give a fig for what you "think". They have their own agenda.

I'm gunna put this nicely again,... but why is it, that Americans in particular seem to have this view of the world that people in other cultures should care about what Americans think?

And what is up Sydney???? It is not enough I have to worry about places like Egypt and Lybia, now I have to worry about frigging Austrailia?

The last thing you need to worry about is what is going on in Australia, we will handle our own matters in our own way.

I am all for people living by their own culture and faith in other places but it stops at killing innocent people that are not only guest in their country but that have spent a lifetime of working on behalf of their country and people.

Yes, it's highly unacceptable. But before you go on with your sugar coated and cream dipped view of the world, it would be wise to remember that Diplomats and their staff are there for the good of the country who sent them, not the country where they are based. It's a fact of life

We are not talking about a battle field here seno and I am sorry but in this matter you are either with me or against me, either friend or enemy.

Oh, sweet Jeezz,...uz, you sound just like GWB,... and with that approach you'll have just about as much luck. You see, the difference being that you have nothing to bargain with and whether you consider yourself a friend or an enemy means absolutely nothing,.... nada, zilch, zero, either to me or anyone else anywhere. What exactly do you think you are going to do? Come over here and punch my lights out, cut off my allowance, ground me?

Life skills lesson number one: You can't buy people's allegiance with money.
Life skills lesson number two: You can't use "friendship" to bully people into agreeing with you.
.

 

[ScarabVenom]

Muslims are not the only sensitive people when it comes to their faith Venon, it is just most people don't go out and rape and kill others for making a comment, cartoon, movie or joke.

I talk to everyone about their faith, espeically when I was in England, I made lots of Muslim friends there.

One conversation I had with a Pakistan driver for over an hour was really eye opening.

Sure, so instead of classifying Muslims as Muslims committed and Muslims didn't commit; classify that there are criminals out there that need to be presented to justice. And then, ignoring the faith issue and just keep Islam out of it. Cuz seriously, if you ask me to get you examples of criminals from any faith it would be more than easy to find.

I personally don't find any faith interesting. Religion is not really something inside my mind. Fortunately, as I call it.

 

[ScarabVenom]

Venom maybe I wrote it wrong or you read it wrong.

I am not saying the protestors who raped and killed those American people in Lybia were Egyptian.

The guy in the US who made the film is said to be Egyptian, at first they thought he was Isreali.

It is also said he was Jewish but now they say he is crypto Christain.

I don't know if that is true either. He might be. He might be a sleeper cell of the radical Muslim groups, we will have to wait and find out more about him.

And now days later it is Yeman, Egypt, Lybia, Austrailia radical Muslim Islamist that are protesting and attacking American buildings, burning flags and chantting "death to America"

Only Lybia radicals have killed four AMericans and I think 17 or 19 wounded.

Maybe I read it wrong. I'm not fluent in English and it's not the easiest language I can use to understand something. But, if I did read it wrong, my apologies.

I didn't say you said the ones who committed it were Egyptians in Libya. I'm just remarking on the paradox of telling an Egyptian that your people are held accountable or responsible while the ones who committed it are not actually his people it just happened to be a country next to him.

This became the normal now. Because of the issues between Egyptians and Israelis, some Egyptians just developed this habit of blaming everything on Israel. Atheism appearing in Egypt, was blamed on Israel in the beginning. Heavy Metal music appearing in Egypt, was blamed on Israel in the beginning. Muslim radicals in Egypt say that it's Israel that spreads pornography in order to keep the Egyptian young-men/ladies and teenagers busy with something not productive. Please, when you hear someone blaming Israel with no proof, just ignore it. Also, when the 16 Egyptian soldiers died on the borders right away, people said it was Israel. Although, I don't blame the Egyptians in this one for blaming Israel right away but, it's just a bad habit right now to blame everything on Israel.

I'm truly surprised cuz what I see is the Middle East gone crazy. But trust me, it's not only Muslims. Christians also involve in those protests as a type of "don't insult my brother" message. I believe they do that to fight discrimination according to religion. And show the Muslims that they love them. I could be wrong though, that's just what I think. "Death to America" chants have actually been there for quite a long time now. It's just that this incident of the movie kinda put the flame next to the fuel. But, I would be surprised that those protests are ONLY for the movie. I believe there are other reasons as well. Cuz those numbers of people protesting ONLY for the movie, is quite ridiculous and would make me evaluate human mind capacity.

Since late 2010 and the uprisings in Tunisia, protesting became something usual. Since most those countries were living dictatorship for decades it became like a toy. You know when you give a child a new toy? He/she keeps playing with it for a while and loves the toy so much but then later, he throws it away. It's kinda the same thing in my opinion, those people were denied freedom of speech for too long. Now, they just had it. So, let the child play with the toy and he/she will get bored of it sooner or later. Also one more thing, I also do find it okay to protest and burn flags and invade embassies. It's still freedom of speech. But, when it gets to the level of people getting harmed, that's insanity. So, if they want to chant...I'd say just let them chant. They're free to express their anger or upsetness towards America for whatever reasons they have. But, definitely, not killing people and raping and all those stuff. This is crime not freedom.

 

[ScarabVenom]

This is quite interesting!!

Thought I might add this photo here.

 

[USAgirl]

Your comments display a truly remarkable lack of understanding of Islam and it's people. No, I'd say that "respect" is definitely the wrong word, actually I'd say they laugh at you for trying to buy their allegiance. The fact is that you can only buy people for as long as they wish to be bought, and this is doubly so with Muslims as they revere their god far more than money.

I think I understand Islam and it's people very well seno and I respect you for being honest and admitting I am correct with my assessment with regard to them laughing at us expecting loyalty as a trade for money.

Without the slightest hesitation, I'd say that you are doing just as you did earlier and judging them and their religion by American (Western) standards,... and guess what? They don't give a fig for what you "think". They have their own agenda.

I am fair enough to judge people by their actions seno, not race nor culture, pure actions for me. I get it seno, you don't have to hit me over the head to understand what the agenda is and north south east or west, I don't care, it is scary to me.

I'm gunna put this nicely again,... but why is it, that Americans in particular seem to have this view of the world that people in other cultures should care about what Americans think?

Thank you again for your patience with regard to our conversations seno..I think America was founded on freedom, American people came here to be free from what the radical Islamic faith is pushing..we undersand and respect all faith and even lack of faith but even with our different faiths here in America we will draw the line at raping and killing of any culture, race or faith.

Those radicals could have marched and yelled at us all day long, even damaged the buildings, but the moment those people resorted to violence with rape and killing then the party was over for me and the majority of the world I think.

The last thing you need to worry about is what is going on in Australia, we will handle our own matters in our own way.


Sorry seno, I worry about anywhere in the world where "death to America" is chanted. I will say I was shocked to see it there for some reason but I do thank the govt for stepping in and making sure the protesting was somewhat controlled so that another rape or killings took place. I find I am now watching to see which govts step in, France and Belgium were other govts to control the protesting.

Yes, it's highly unacceptable. But before you go on with your sugar coated and cream dipped view of the world, it would be wise to remember that Diplomats and their staff are there for the good of the country who sent them, not the country where they are based. It's a fact of life

LOL@sugar coated and cream dipped....now that was funny seno

My mother always use to say I see the world through rose colord glasses and would remind me that not all people do.

Oh, sweet Jeezz,...uz, you sound just like GWB,... and with that approach you'll have just about as much luck. You see, the difference being that you have nothing to bargain with and whether you consider yourself a friend or an enemy means absolutely nothing,.... nada, zilch, zero, either to me or anyone else anywhere. What exactly do you think you are going to do? Come over here and punch my lights out, cut off my allowance, ground me?

No, I would just no better than to turn my back on you. Funny how your first thought is violence. Mine is trust and who has my back in good and bad times. Mine is who I can share the world with and where I can go for a friend. And a friend might not mean anything to you but it means a lot to me and to America, maybe that is where we part ways and what seperates us as people.

Life skills lesson number one: You can't buy people's allegiance with money.
Life skills lesson number two: You can't use "friendship" to bully people into agreeing with you.
.

I hope everyone is OK in Austraila and no one got hurt, the police were very good and controlling things down under.

 

[USAgirl]

Sure, so instead of classifying Muslims as Muslims committed and Muslims didn't commit; classify that there are criminals out there that need to be presented to justice. And then, ignoring the faith issue and just keep Islam out of it. Cuz seriously, if you ask me to get you examples of criminals from any faith it would be more than easy to find.

I personally don't find any faith interesting. Religion is not really something inside my mind. Fortunately, as I call it.

I can't just classify them as criminals Venom because they are committing these acts in the name of a faith, not even their own faith but they have hi jacked the Islamic Muslim faith which is why I say the Muslim Islamic people must speak out againt this and hold their own accountable.

I was just watching a reporter in Egypt talk about the difference between the protestors 18 mos ago in Egypt and today.

He said the difference was 18 mo ago the protestors in Egypt were younger, more educated and western friendly, saying we love America and all for democracy.

Today the protestor is uneducated, poor and basically coming right out of the mosque being taught this "death to America" hate.

Now that is the reporters opinion and view from being there on the ground.

 

[USAgirl]

This is quite interesting!!

Thought I might add this photo here.

I can't read what the girls sign says but I I will remind you I posted at the begining of all this that not ALL people protesting or of the Muslim faith supported what happen and had signs that said they were sorry and for us not to be angry at them for what these people did.

 

[USAgirl]

Maybe I read it wrong. I'm not fluent in English and it's not the easiest language I can use to understand something. But, if I did read it wrong, my apologies.

I didn't say you said the ones who committed it were Egyptians in Libya. I'm just remarking on the paradox of telling an Egyptian that your people are held accountable or responsible while the ones who committed it are not actually his people it just happened to be a country next to him.

This became the normal now. Because of the issues between Egyptians and Israelis, some Egyptians just developed this habit of blaming everything on Israel. Atheism appearing in Egypt, was blamed on Israel in the beginning. Heavy Metal music appearing in Egypt, was blamed on Israel in the beginning. Muslim radicals in Egypt say that it's Israel that spreads pornography in order to keep the Egyptian young-men/ladies and teenagers busy with something not productive. Please, when you hear someone blaming Israel with no proof, just ignore it. Also, when the 16 Egyptian soldiers died on the borders right away, people said it was Israel. Although, I don't blame the Egyptians in this one for blaming Israel right away but, it's just a bad habit right now to blame everything on Israel.

Sheesh Venom, that sounds like an issue that only will be solved if the Egyptian people correct it. I can say "it is not true" all day long but I don't think they will trust me but if another Egyptian says it is not all Israels fault then maybe they will be more open minded?


I'm truly surprised cuz what I see is the Middle East gone crazy. But trust me, it's not only Muslims. Christians also involve in those protests as a type of "don't insult my brother" message. I believe they do that to fight discrimination according to religion. And show the Muslims that they love them. I could be wrong though, that's just what I think. "Death to America" chants have actually been there for quite a long time now. It's just that this incident of the movie kinda put the flame next to the fuel. But, I would be surprised that those protests are ONLY for the movie. I believe there are other reasons as well. Cuz those numbers of people protesting ONLY for the movie, is quite ridiculous and would make me evaluate human mind capacity.

True enough Venom, 'death to America" and burning our flags have been going on for awhile now and to tell you the truth, it makes me uncomfortable for exactly the issue that just happen in Lybia, it is too close to full of hate and you can just see it boiling over into what we saw in Lybia.

And I am not sure any Christain would march saying the rape or kiling was OK. They might have marched saying we don't like the film but that is about it.

Since late 2010 and the uprisings in Tunisia, protesting became something usual. Since most those countries were living dictatorship for decades it became like a toy. You know when you give a child a new toy? He/she keeps playing with it for a while and loves the toy so much but then later, he throws it away. It's kinda the same thing in my opinion, those people were denied freedom of speech for too long. Now, they just had it. So, let the child play with the toy and he/she will get bored of it sooner or later. Also one more thing, I also do find it okay to protest and burn flags and invade embassies. It's still freedom of speech. But, when it gets to the level of people getting harmed, that's insanity. So, if they want to chant...I'd say just let them chant. They're free to express their anger or upsetness towards America for whatever reasons they have. But, definitely, not killing people and raping and all those stuff. This is crime not freedom.

Invade embassies? Not cool. Damage building or property? Not cool. Chanting "death to America" yes, freedom of speech but not cool for me and burning the flag not cool, can you imagine if we did that to them here? Just not cool, it is what will boil over to violence especially with a group that is easy to manipulate.


No worries Venom if you read it wrong, I saw that you said English was not your first language and that is why I reposted for you. Shoot, sometimes just text is confusing, it does not always transfer with personality, you know what I mean?

 

[pixiedustboo]

I wanted to share this as I thought it was summed up very nicely by Cenk.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0v-CYKFry8"]What Does Not Equal the USA[/ame]

 

[senojekips]

I think I understand Islam and it's people very well seno and I respect you for being honest and admitting I am correct with my assessment with regard to them laughing at us expecting loyalty as a trade for money.

I am fair enough to judge people by their actions seno, not race nor culture, pure actions for me. I get it seno, you don't have to hit me over the head to understand what the agenda is and north south east or west, I don't care, it is scary to me.

It's a worry for all of us, but your posts do virtually nothing to backup your claim that you understand Islam (by which I mean, as much as a westerner can).

Have you ever bothered to look at today's problems with Global terrorism in depth, and work out the root cause of it all? Just ask yourself the question, "Why do they despise us". After which you must be absolutely honest with yourself,.... if you do this you will come up with the answer.

Thank you again for your patience with regard to our conversations seno..I think America was founded on freedom, American people came here to be free from what the radical Islamic faith is pushing..we undersand and respect all faith and even lack of faith but even with our different faiths here in America we will draw the line at raping and killing of any culture, race or faith.

Those radicals could have marched and yelled at us all day long, even damaged the buildings, but the moment those people resorted to violence with rape and killing then the party was over for me and the majority of the world I think.As I keep saying, American culture and it's unique set of values are purely a Western thing having no bearing on the matter anywhere outside of your borders. Radical Islam is no worse than fundamentalist Christianity,... remember that you would not need to scratch very deeply below the surface of groups like the Westboro Baptists and the KKK to find behaviour very similar to that seem among radical Islamists.

Sorry seno, I worry about anywhere in the world where "death to America" is chanted. The answer to this will become apparent once you have done as i suggested in para 2 of my answer.

LOL@sugar coated and cream dipped....now that was funny seno
My mother always use to say I see the world through rose colord glasses and would remind me that not all people do. I don't know if you read "Calvin and Hobbes" but I always get a laugh out of Calvin's favourite breakfast cereal , "Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs"

Your Mother's advice is highly commendable, but unfortunately in today's world it is not always wise, and often we need a good healthy dose of skepticism.

No, I would just no better than to turn my back on you. Funny how your first thought is violence. Mine is trust and who has my back in good and bad times. Mine is who I can share the world with and where I can go for a friend. And a friend might not mean anything to you but it means a lot to me and to America, maybe that is where we part ways and what seperates us as people.

My thoughts on that is, Turn your back on me by all means, but never try to put me in a position where it's "My way, or the highway" because 99% of the time anyone with any moral backbone will drop you like a hot potato, purely because a person worthy of being one's true "friend" would never put them in such a position.

............................

 

[USAgirl]

............................

seno, you don't think I get the difference between Islam and radical terrorist going around killing in the name of the Islamic Musliam faith?

What do you think I don't get about Islam? They have a strong faith, many people of faith do, shoot, for that matter the atheist have a pretty strong opinion of their belief.

They have rules to follow like many faiths do.

I will do some research in more depth but the only thing I see i have an issue with is the act of violence.

You bring up the KKK or Black Panthers and yes, they gather or spout their hate now and again or in private, shoot, the Black Panthers have a radio show and called for the killing of white honkey pigs, which is freedom of speech, but the difference is that the American people from all sides, race and faith shut that down and did not support that

Where do you think a KKK could storm an American building today and rip out four people, kill them and rape one? Only thing I can see close to that act in the US as of late have been black rioit and gangs that gathered and beat white people in the streets. These groups are usually from gang areas of poverty, drugs, single parents and uneducated, easy to manipulate.

And yes, some people that claim to be Christain have been violent to others but the other Christians speak out against it and do not support that and those acts are criminal

Why do they chant "death to America" .....I think they are being manipulated within the faith and family. If you are poor, isolated and or uneducated it is easy to be manipulated.

They feel we have done something to them or we represent Satan because that is what they have been told by people who are just trying to gain power through fear and hate.

I am thinking a lot about what you said with regard to "the friend not asking another friend to do that" I know what unconditional love or friendship means and I don't require that my friends do as I do, in that respect I accept people for who they are, I respect all people of color, faith, sex, politics or religion, having said that, I would not call a person who committed crimes like brutal rape and killing my friend.

So in that sense I guess my friendship would be conditional?

I will look up the reading material you mentioned, I love a good sense of humor.

Is good chatting with you seno, I like when I am challenged.:-D

 

[pixiedustboo]

Your comments display a truly remarkable lack of understanding of Islam and it's people. No, I'd say that "respect" is definitely the wrong word, actually I'd say they laugh at you for trying to buy their allegiance. The fact is that you can only buy people for as long as they wish to be bought, and this is doubly so with Muslims as they revere their god far more than money.

While I agree with you very much, I also wanted to add in that we should not need to understand Islam or even respect Islam. We have full free speech here in the USA and that is something THEY need to realize. (I don't condone being disrespectful on purpose and I do not think it should be done, but that being said, it is our freedom to choose). As a whole we SHOULD respect their ways and they SHOULD respect ours. ...but wait, that would be a start to world peace and we can't have that.

I'd say that you are doing just as you did earlier and judging them and their religion by American (Western) standards

I can't love this enough. This is the problem that I think plagues American's like the Black Death. (And certainly not only based on Islam or the Middle-Eastern countries). For the Muslims we judge them by religion. We just them by dress, we just them by our moral/society standards/governmental policies, etc. We can't wrap our American minds around the fact that people may be happy without doing things the way WE do them. (And granted, we can all see not all of the Middle-East is 'happy,' but that being said, if things change where the majority is happy and it's not "our" sort of government American's will have a problem with it.

but the difference is that the American people from all sides, race and faith shut that down and did not support that

Where do you think a KKK could storm an American building today and rip out four people, kill them and rape one


And yes, some people that claim to be Christain have been violent to others but the other Christians speak out against it and do not support that and those acts are criminal


I would not call a person who committed crimes like brutal rape and killing my friend.

Maybe I am mistaking the meaning of your comments so please feel free to enlighten me if I am mistaken.


Are you saying that all Muslims in some way or another support the extremists, even with as little "support" as just standing out of the way for them to get into the building so they can kill and rape? Are you saying that no Muslim speaks out against the killings that have been done by the extremists?


I certainly hope not. My MIL is a very religious, praying five times a day sort of Muslim. She would not hurt a fly, nor would she or does she condone the killings or rape. There are hundreds upon thousands more that feel as she feels.

 

[senojekips]

seno, you don't think I get the difference between Islam and radical terrorist going around killing in the name of the Islamic Musliam faith?

What do you think I don't get about Islam? They have a strong faith, many people of faith do, shoot, for that matter the atheist have a pretty strong opinion of their belief.
They have rules to follow like many faiths do.

I will do some research in more depth but the only thing I see i have an issue with is the act of violence.

You bring up the KKK or Black Panthers and yes, they gather or spout their hate now and again or in private, shoot, the Black Panthers have a radio show and called for the killing of white honkey pigs, which is freedom of speech, but the difference is that the American people from all sides, race and faith shut that down and did not support that

Where do you think a KKK could storm an American building today and rip out four people, kill them and rape one? Only thing I can see close to that act in the US as of late have been black rioit and gangs that gathered and beat white people in the streets. These groups are usually from gang areas of poverty, drugs, single parents and uneducated, easy to manipulate.

And yes, some people that claim to be Christain have been violent to others but the other Christians speak out against it and do not support that and those acts are criminal

Why do they chant "death to America" .....I think they are being manipulated within the faith and family. If you are poor, isolated and or uneducated it is easy to be manipulated.

They feel we have done something to them or we represent Satan because that is what they have been told by people who are just trying to gain power through fear and hate.

I am thinking a lot about what you said with regard to "the friend not asking another friend to do that" I know what unconditional love or friendship means and I don't require that my friends do as I do, in that respect I accept people for who they are, I respect all people of color, faith, sex, politics or religion, having said that, I would not call a person who committed crimes like brutal rape and killing my friend.

So in that sense I guess my friendship would be conditional?

I will look up the reading material you mentioned, I love a good sense of humor.

Is good chatting with you seno, I like when I am challenged.:-D

If you read back though your posts, you refer to Islam or Muslims, but only rarely do you state that you are speaking only of Radical Islamists, and no where do you seem to admit that what they are doing is illegal in their countries also. Neither do you seem to get that their laws and expectations are far different to ours, although I don't like their system myself, I don't try to tell them what they should be doing in their own countries.

This is where it connects with this debate. Although the alleged crime was committed in the USA the reaction occurred in a foreign country and it's not like it was unexpected.

There are many Muslims who speak out against the Radicals, it's just that it's not news worthy to report it.

Somewhere along the line you need to draw a line where free speech ends and stupidity and deliberate incitement to violence begins. I believe it's a Federal offence to make public threats against the POTUS?.... What? that can't be right, what about free speech?...

 

[USAgirl]

While I agree with you very much, I also wanted to add in that we should not need to understand Islam or even respect Islam. We have full free speech here in the USA and that is something THEY need to realize. (I don't condone being disrespectful on purpose and I do not think it should be done, but that being said, it is our freedom to choose). As a whole we SHOULD respect their ways and they SHOULD respect ours. ...but wait, that would be a start to world peace and we can't have that.



I can't love this enough. This is the problem that I think plagues American's like the Black Death. (And certainly not only based on Islam or the Middle-Eastern countries). For the Muslims we judge them by religion. We just them by dress, we just them by our moral/society standards/governmental policies, etc. We can't wrap our American minds around the fact that people may be happy without doing things the way WE do them. (And granted, we can all see not all of the Middle-East is 'happy,' but that being said, if things change where the majority is happy and it's not "our" sort of government American's will have a problem with it.




Maybe I am mistaking the meaning of your comments so please feel free to enlighten me if I am mistaken.


Are you saying that all Muslims in some way or another support the extremists, even with as little "support" as just standing out of the way for them to get into the building so they can kill and rape? Are you saying that no Muslim speaks out against the killings that have been done by the extremists?


I certainly hope not. My MIL is a very religious, praying five times a day sort of Muslim. She would not hurt a fly, nor would she or does she condone the killings or rape. There are hundreds upon thousands more that feel as she feels.

No no no, I never said ALL,, in fact, I have said on more than one occasion that it is not ALL Muslims and I know you have read where I have said over and over that I think that religion has been hi jacked by this radical group doing these bad things under the name of the Muslim Islamic faith.

I am sure your Mil would not hurt a fly and prays and does not support rape or killing, I have no reason to doubt that
.
My point is that I feel it is going to take more Muslims like MIL to speak out to stop this group from using the Muslim faith to rape and kill.

It really can't come from me or my country or another faith or person, I think it has to come from other Muslims.

And you would not be honest if you said that some of this fear and hate was not coming from within a mosque or family even if it is not your family or mosque.

I am honest and say KKK, Black Panthers etc do exist and have done bad things, other religions have had people hi jack them and do bad things in their name, even atheist have done bad things to religous people, I admit it and don't support it.

I don't stand out of the way or look the other way or look down and not say anything out of fear while a group rains terror on others.

Groups like that can only rain terror when others stand by and do nothing right?

 

[USAgirl]

If you read back though your posts, you refer to Islam or Muslims, but only rarely do you state that you are speaking only of Radical Islamists, and no where do you seem to admit that what they are doing is illegal in their countries also. Neither do you seem to get that their laws and expectations are far different to ours, although I don't like their system myself, I don't try to tell them what they should be doing in their own countries.

This is where it connects with this debate. Although the alleged crime was committed in the USA the reaction occurred in a foreign country and it's not like it was unexpected.

There are many Muslims who speak out against the Radicals, it's just that it's not news worthy to report it.

I believe it's a Federal offence to make public threats against the POTUS?.... What? that can't be right, what about free speech?...

I am very sorry if I did not write radical Islamic Muslims in every post and I mislead anyone to think that I consider ALL Muslims or ALL Islam as being responsible for these actions I am upset about.

I thought I was very clear with whom I hold responsible for such actions but I will be careful to be more exact with each post.

I know I can go back and find where I did say radical Isalmist Muslim and that I don't hold ALL responsible etc etc

But it is enough for me to hear that you say you feel that I missed that point and so I will do better to correct it going forward...fair?

Next..

I get their laws are different, I get countries have their own laws, I have lived in other countries and I always obey their law and am respectful of other cultures but in doing so I don't support gangs and thugs killing or raping innocent people based on a joke, comment, cartoon or movie.

And you can't just have all Americans leave a place like say Lybia and take away all our financial support and cut off all economic ties because there are some bad people doing bad things, how is that fair to the people who are natives there that don't support say a Taliban and don't want to live under that fear and law? Who will stand with them?
Next

Rape and killing over a comment or movie is totally unexpected for me. i get taking to the street with a sign and shouting out, sheesh even burning a flag but damaging a building, raping and killing? No.

Interesting that you say "alleged" I was reading some in America and it is said that no where in the Quran does it say that you kill or rape som one who draws a picture of the prophet. I have not read the Quran cover to cover so I am just reading what others who have seem to say.

And if the news is guilty of not reporting the Muslims who do speak out against it, then they are just as responsible.

A threat to kill is the crime, not drawing a cartoon about the President.



"Somewhere along the line you need to draw a line where free speech ends and stupidity and deliberate incitement to violence begins."

And I think somewhere along the line, you need to draw a line where a stupid cartoon or movie ends and rape and killing begins.

 

[USAgirl]

While I agree with you very much, I also wanted to add in that we should not need to understand Islam or even respect Islam. We have full free speech here in the USA and that is something THEY need to realize. (I don't condone being disrespectful on purpose and I do not think it should be done, but that being said, it is our freedom to choose). As a whole we SHOULD respect their ways and they SHOULD respect ours. ...but wait, that would be a start to world peace and we can't have that.



I can't love this enough. This is the problem that I think plagues American's like the Black Death. (And certainly not only based on Islam or the Middle-Eastern countries). For the Muslims we judge them by religion. We just them by dress, we just them by our moral/society standards/governmental policies, etc. We can't wrap our American minds around the fact that people may be happy without doing things the way WE do them. (And granted, we can all see not all of the Middle-East is 'happy,' but that being said, if things change where the majority is happy and it's not "our" sort of government American's will have a problem with it.




Maybe I am mistaking the meaning of your comments so please feel free to enlighten me if I am mistaken.


Are you saying that all Muslims in some way or another support the extremists, even with as little "support" as just standing out of the way for them to get into the building so they can kill and rape? Are you saying that no Muslim speaks out against the killings that have been done by the extremists?


I certainly hope not. My MIL is a very religious, praying five times a day sort of Muslim. She would not hurt a fly, nor would she or does she condone the killings or rape. There are hundreds upon thousands more that feel as she feels.

PS...the picture of the Muslim girls standing up and speaking out bring tears to my eyes.

 

[senojekips]

And you can't just have all Americans leave a place like say Lybia and take away all our financial support and cut off all economic ties because there are some bad people doing bad things, how is that fair to the people who are natives there that don't support say a Taliban and don't want to live under that fear and law? Who will stand with them?

Do you honestly think that America is in these sh!tholes because it wants to give them financial support and for the people to have better lives?

 

[USAgirl]

Do you honestly think that America is in these sh!tholes because it wants to give them financial support and for the people to have better lives?

Don't be silly.

There are many reasons, one of which is trying to find a way to help the people be independent of dictators so they can't be manipulated into thugs and mobs that run around raping and killing.

Another is making an ally so you don't have one country joining another country so that Americans don't have two countries that chant "death to America"

Another is an ally base camp to be able to operate from if we need to take care of a threat in a foriegn country.

Another is making sure a country that we do business with or supplies oil is free from others that would come in and hold those products hostage.

Another is protecting our interest in having an ally with a country that has nucs so they don't fall into the wrong hands.

and I am sure there are lots more if you care to share.

 

[senojekips]

Don't be silly.

There are many reasons, one of which is trying to find a way to help the people be independent of dictators so they can't be manipulated into thugs and mobs that run around raping and killing.

That didn't seem to be a priority in places like Ethiopa, Mozambique, Uganda, Rwanda and a dozen other failed states. Is there perhaps a reason for this?