03USMC
Active member
Lumping 30 years into a argument to fit a blood for oil argument are we?
Anti-Islam filmmaker in hiding after protests
Lumping 30 years into a argument to fit a blood for oil argument are we?
ScarabVenom
Active member
Well, so you have to classify them according to faith even if it's not theirs? If I go do something horrible right now under the name of Christianity, you hold Christians accountable? You said even it's not theirs, Christianity is not my religion so, you would still hold Christians accountable? You said the Muslims have to hold those of their own accountable yet, they are not people of their faith so how possibly can they be "people of their own"? Besides that, everyone including Muslims try to fight terrorism. But, because some terrorists use Islam as their excuse so, Muslims have to throw away important stuff and keep worrying about protesting and speaking out "we do not support this?" Like this, the Muslims will have nothing to do besides protesting since many of such actions are done under the name of Islam. Because people are related in religion, it doesn't mean they're related in blood. And yeah, I hold the same opinion. Protesters in Egypt these days just enjoy the act of protesting and they never really achieved something productive. They just like protesting, quite a shame. But, what can we do? The revolution kept getting more ridiculous by time. First, it was against the corrupt government and Mubarak....good reason. Then, it was against the military dominance. The one who took back the power was the president not the revolution delivering it to him. Then finally, now...they just keep protesting for very ridiculous things. And even a considerable amount of Egyptians started turning against those protests as Egyptians need to give a chance for Egypt to improve. If protesting kept going on, well...it only slows the progress down and doesn't help.
ScarabVenom
Active member
The sign says "As an American, I condemn the anti-Islamic video that makes it a mockery of your faith. Please do not believe that it reflects the sentiments of all Americans, it does not. You are a fellow human and inhabitant of this Earth and I love you."
The ones who supported it are the radicals. And for decades now they've always been blaming everything on America because it supports Israel. This action just gave them an excuse to protest and those kind of stuff. I'm honestly surprised that human mind capacity had reached this level of lowness.
I really don't know if I read this thread from the beginning, I don't remember...my apologies. And if you truly said this, and I understood it the way I do now, I wouldn't object. I'm basically objecting that you hold all Muslims accountable because they didn't condemn or punish those of their own faith that did this. And this is really coming from a humanistic point of view, I'm not a Muslim.
ScarabVenom
Active member
I said blaming everything on ISRAEL not ISRAELIS. I mean, racism still exists but, that's the nature of everywhere. I do say many times there is a difference between the actions of a state and the actions of the people. And people did honestly talk about this using a video of Israelis in front of the Egyptian embassy chanting "The people demand peace with Egypt." as another version of the Egyptian "The people demand the regime to fall" And I still wouldn't blame it solely on Egypt since Israel's actions against the Egyptians are really non-tolerable. If Israel just stops killing Egyptian soldiers by the borders maybe the hate will fall down eventually. But as soon as this action keeps going on and on and on it just adds more fuel to the fire. I find us going a little off-topic I believe by going into Israel's issue. But, believe me...the whole Israeli issue is just a result of a much bigger type of manipulation on a much different level.
I do understand what you're saying. If my country's flag is burned and people chanting death to my country will hurt me on a personal level because it is my country. And I wouldn't blame Americans for showing disgust towards this act. Only the insane ones will vote for rape and murder and those stuff. It has nothing to do with religion, it's a bloodlusting psychological situation and really people who support those stuff need to get counseling. Christians in Egypt joined the protests just to improve their relations with the Muslims and sending a message "hey, everything a side. We're all Egyptians and we're all one, what bothers you..bothers me."
Invading embassies, I see it as an action towards a state. Since invading another country's soil which is the embassy just attacks the state itself. Maybe it can result in violence building up but, it depends on how people perceive things. Damaging building or properties, it depends on the building. If somebody just attacks a civilian's building and results in somebody being homeless...that's disgusting. But, if the building is a political building or something, it's just the same situation as the embassy.
Chanting death to America, is freedom of speech...you said that, we're good. But it affects you personally; I understand and wouldn't hold against you since this is your country and it's totally natural for you to love it. If you did this to them, yes they will be upset just for the same reason you became upset. Same thing with burning the flag...my roommate, an American. Burned the American flag countless times but that doesn't mean he hates America it means he hates the state of America. It just depends on how people perceive things. Some people might call him a traitor turning against his country while at the same time he believes his country will be better if this government falls.You know in the back of your head that there's a HUGE number of people that love America. And you do also know that there's a HUGE number of people that hate America. So, when any of those 2 groups do action, don't take it on a personal level. It's the same thing with me, if someone burned my flag and invaded my embassy, I'd definitely be upset but at the same time, I do know that some others might have this flag in their houses and they show absolute love to it.
Yes, I do know what you mean. The thing with text is that it has no voice. When you hear voice, it delivers the message more clearly. But, text...it puts you into 2 meanings for the same sentence and you just have to guess. I hope I didn't deliver a message that I'm really horrible in English. No, I can speak it but some words are way too advanced for me. And sometimes, I just totally misunderstand since during translation to my language in my mind...well, things happen.
Traditionally we haven't been involved much with Africa, mainly a European thing where they were the Colonizers.
senojekips
Active member
The facts being what they are, it's not hard to do. The date that these things occurred is not the point, what I 'm saying is that they happened, and some of them not too long ago, and the US foreign policy has not changed significantly in that time frame ,.... Unless of course we are deliberately trying to avoid the obvious.
Now, having said that, I do agree at least in part, there is absolutely nothing wrong with ensuring the availability of vital supplies, but what I was getting at was to squash the ridiculous notion that the US is there for the benefit of those countries concerned. Read my post #98.
Best answer yet,.... at least it's credible.
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I don't think we can be every place at one time.
And I even mentioned oil USMC.
UGh, I hate text, you either read it wrong or I didin't communicate it well.
What I mean when I said "not their faith" is that it is not some new faith called boogie woogie faith.
It is an established faith of Islam dictated by the Quran, now weather they mis using it, mis quoting it or whatever, the non violent Islamic Muslim must stand up against the radical sect that act under the name Islamic Muslim and identify themself as such.
If someone like the Westboro church or anyone who acted out in the same way the radical Islamist is by raping killing or even storming buildings and taking hostages and said it was in the bible or it was a Christian act, I would call them out, I would be the first to stand against them.
Well, I guess you can start in the home by teaching your children that it is one thing to speak out and protest but what the radicals are doing in the name of Islam is not in the Quran so your children can't be manipulated and used.
You could make sure hate is not being taught in your mosque and if it is, expose those people.
You can join us in the fight against the people and not step aside and let them storm a building and rape and kill.
You can not try so hard to defend their actions against me and try and turn it around like I am hating on ALL Muslims.
That would be a good start Venom
I like the girls sign and message. I think the majority of Americans agree with that and I wonder if you are misunderstanding the difference between not agreeing with the video and the right for freedom of speech without the fear of being raped and killed?
Honestly, I think that is the divide, I think when you were Americans say "that we have freedom of speech' you think we agree with the film? we don't.
The only thing we support Isreal on is the right to exist. It would be one thing if these "radicals" just said "I hate Isreal" but they say "they need to be wiped off the face of the earth and do not have a right to exist"
Hmmmm, I might have to rethink how I communicate my thoughts Venom.
I know ALL Muslims don't support the radicals but I also know that if the Muslim community doesn't stand up and speak out against this stuff then it wont ever change. I think the radicals only have power by the silence of others.
so let's play this out...
The guy makes the movie...
The Muslim countries get angry, go to the streets with signs in large numbers that say that movie is bad, the man is bad, Allah is angry or whatever
Then America, our govt, our people have a chance to say "we don't support that man or his movie and respect your right to worship who you want"
but because those radicals resorted to burning, damaging, attacking, raping and killing, now the American people wont stand still for that. Our govt is trying to play both sides right now but that is not going over very well with the American people.
This is a good post Venom.
I am not cool with any flag burning of any country, espeically an American flag by another American, remember what I said about checking your own? This is me checking your roommate. Not cool dude. Vote and change the govt or whatever but how dare you disrespect our country and people that way. Snot nose little brat in my opinion.
I can't even express to you how offensive that is to me Venom and yet, I know he has the freedom to do it.
and I am not cool with the death chanting even if it is freedom of speech. I think if they are ticked off at us they should just say "USA go f yourself" lol but I still respect freedom to say it.
I think you are doing a great job with your English and trying to communicate your opinions even if we don't always agree.
I am trying to learn Spanish and at my age it seems even more difficult. I am lucky to just remember where my car keys are...:lol:
Come on seno, you can't honestly think that America has never done anything to help others less fortunate in other countries...that is not fair.
Anyway, I want America to use our own fuel so we don't have to take any more darn crap over the oil anymore. OPEC is dirty.
For as much crap as we take over it we ought to just go in and take it and stop getting charged top dollar for it....just kidding
ScarabVenom
Active member
Well...not too many people like the idea of burning flags because it gets personal. Burning a flag is an action that expresses opposition towards a certain state, it doesn't usually mean hating the people or anything similar. He burns the flag just because he doesn't like the US government; it's not that he hates his country of his people. And yeah, I remember when you said checking your own but unfortunately, what can you do to change him? He says it all started after he finished his American military service. He joined the American army and for some reason, he started hating the government after that but he claims to be hating the US government since he was 12 years old. Vote and change the government, I don't think this will work. Since he doesn't like to vote as he dislikes the Democrats as much as the Republicans so, to him...it's just one big messed up system. He's one of those Occupy Wall Street movement if you heard of it. You perceived the action of burning the flag as an offense against your country while I believe, he just wants America better and when he burns the flag, he's expressing opposition towards the government. I always ask this question; why when you fight for your country, you burn your flag? I mean, check the Tunisian, Egyptian and Yemeni revolutions. The protesters held their flag high although they hate the government just as much. To me, burning your own country's flag is quite ironic. You're fighting for your country yet, you burn it's symbol? The flag is less likely to change when the government falls, I believe.
Yes, I know how you feel. I've been far away from home in a foreign country and it gets offensive when people bark crap about it. But, best thing....most people I knew in here only know 2 things about my country; Pyramids and camels. Well...I'm fine with that.
I'd have them only know of this rather than barking non-sense and un-realistic stuff.Of course you're not cool with it. I totally understand, that's your country and it's perfectly normal when something is against your country is in a way against you in a personal level. It just depends....I mean, if people starting burning the flag of my country I'd ask, why are they doing it?? I'd check...if they just hate the government, I'd be less offended. But, it's just pure hate against us and wanting our country nuked to rubble, well....that's bad.
Thank you for that! I try to do my best. At your age? I hope you wouldn't mind if I ask how old you are. Cuz this can mean that you're saying "I'm pretty old and I forget easily" or "I'm so young and I'm not mature enough yet." It seems like we're the same on this one, I also keep forgetting my keys for some reason. I have a habit of throwing my keys somewhere as soon as I get inside my home. And when I wake up next morning....I go all over the place looking for those tiny little bastards! LOL
pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
Yes you do. Unless you are fighting to get out the message of the terrorism that is in our own country, from OUR OWN people, you are just yet another to stand by.
I think those that participate in OWS are doing so with good intentions and do hope to start changing how things work. Sadly I don't think it will change anything because our people and our government are too money hungry. I don't hate our government, I hate some of the things it is standing for, and I am not "proud" of it in many cases right now. That being said, even if one does hate the government of their homeland you do not burn the flag. The flag doesn't represent the government. It represents the people. That is my opinion anyway.
I have to say, I agree with USAgirl on this one, I am offended very much by the burning/tearing of the American flag.
IronFist
New Member
I can't believe you all are discussing these riots through the perspective of this anonymous movie. I also cannot believe that you all in majority share opinion that the riots had been caused by this movie.
The movie was released on youtube in July. In July not on September 11th. How come nobody rioted in July or August? How come nobody rioted on September 5th? By September 11th when the riots started movie was viewed whopping 100 times on youtube. The movie barely failed to crack the most watched video on youtube (sarcastic). So the logic says all 100 views came from the region where internet is as spread as humanity on Neptun and then thousands of people rioted because of the movie they had never seen. Right?
Please get off CNN and other talking points media. For all of you who served or were connected with intelligence officers and personnel, tell me what can happen in the third world country without knowledge of the ruling oligarchy? Nothing. That's right. You can't fart on the street without them knowing that. But all media claim the ruling oligarchy in Egypt and Libya (no matter how weak they possible could be) had no clue that this was going to happen? You're telling me they didn't know that thousands of people will organize and attack US Embassies on September 11th? You're telling me they cannot control territory under their strict control (Benghazi and Cairo) I guess thousands of people in Libya and Egypt sit on the street until somebody comes to them and says "Guys would you like to riot a bit, today?" Right. I'll sell you a waterfront property on Saturn.
The attacks were carefully planned and have nothing to with this movie. The movie was later used as an excuse, albeit ridiculous one, but excuse nevertheless. Now, why the riots really happened... that is for discussion.
The movie was released on youtube in July. In July not on September 11th. How come nobody rioted in July or August? How come nobody rioted on September 5th? By September 11th when the riots started movie was viewed whopping 100 times on youtube. The movie barely failed to crack the most watched video on youtube (sarcastic). So the logic says all 100 views came from the region where internet is as spread as humanity on Neptun and then thousands of people rioted because of the movie they had never seen. Right?
Please get off CNN and other talking points media. For all of you who served or were connected with intelligence officers and personnel, tell me what can happen in the third world country without knowledge of the ruling oligarchy? Nothing. That's right. You can't fart on the street without them knowing that. But all media claim the ruling oligarchy in Egypt and Libya (no matter how weak they possible could be) had no clue that this was going to happen? You're telling me they didn't know that thousands of people will organize and attack US Embassies on September 11th? You're telling me they cannot control territory under their strict control (Benghazi and Cairo) I guess thousands of people in Libya and Egypt sit on the street until somebody comes to them and says "Guys would you like to riot a bit, today?" Right. I'll sell you a waterfront property on Saturn.
The attacks were carefully planned and have nothing to with this movie. The movie was later used as an excuse, albeit ridiculous one, but excuse nevertheless. Now, why the riots really happened... that is for discussion.
senojekips
Active member
As we are told so often, "Life is not Fair" and if you are not prepared to get used to it, you are going to be very disappointed. I'm not suggesting that the US has never done anything purely out of the goodness of their heart, but let's be honest, and we are talking here about things done by the government.... How many can you think of,... and don't get me wrong Australia is no different, nor should I say is any other country, there is always a "pay off". Remember the old adage, "There is no such thing, as free lunch"
My sole intent here is to hose down a ludicrous and growing sentiment seen in several posts on the Forum, where people are trying to say that the Middle east should be glad of our presence and financial assistance. The truth being that if we were to withdraw they would probably be far better off and so would we. OK so there would be some internal squabbling and the price of oil would go up until it were settled, but we would save tens of thousands of lives of our most valued young citizens, not to mention trillions of dollars that could be paying off the US debt. They would be killing one another, and wasting their money.
There is even a moderate possibility that if we were to stop meddling in their local affairs the Mullahs and other fire brands would lose the ammunition they need to fire up their followers against the US. Y'never know. they might even stop screaming, "Death to America"
Like us, you just haven't got nearly enough at your present rate of use, and no one is willing to try and cut their energy use. Selfish greed and laziness play a large part in this debate too.
Had we have started using the money and time we've spent on wars, financing alternative energy solutions and governing the country, thirty years earlier, that may not have been such a problem. The trouble being that we were looking for the "easy fix",... and it wasn't. Now our chickens have come home to roost.
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Well...not too many people like the idea of burning flags because it gets personal. Burning a flag is an action that expresses opposition towards a certain state, it doesn't usually mean hating the people or anything similar. He burns the flag just because he doesn't like the US government; it's not that he hates his country of his people. And yeah, I remember when you said checking your own but unfortunately, what can you do to change him? He says it all started after he finished his American military service. He joined the American army and for some reason, he started hating the government after that but he claims to be hating the US government since he was 12 years old. Vote and change the government, I don't think this will work. Since he doesn't like to vote as he dislikes the Democrats as much as the Republicans so, to him...it's just one big messed up system. He's one of those Occupy Wall Street movement if you heard of it. You perceived the action of burning the flag as an offense against your country while I believe, he just wants America better and when he burns the flag, he's expressing opposition towards the government. I always ask this question; why when you fight for your country, you burn your flag? I mean, check the Tunisian, Egyptian and Yemeni revolutions. The protesters held their flag high although they hate the government just as much. To me, burning your own country's flag is quite ironic. You're fighting for your country yet, you burn it's symbol? The flag is less likely to change when the government falls, I believe.
Yes, I know how you feel. I've been far away from home in a foreign country and it gets offensive when people bark crap about it. But, best thing....most people I knew in here only know 2 things about my country; Pyramids and camels. Well...I'm fine with that.
Of course you're not cool with it. I totally understand, that's your country and it's perfectly normal when something is against your country is in a way against you in a personal level. It just depends....I mean, if people starting burning the flag of my country I'd ask, why are they doing it?? I'd check...if they just hate the government, I'd be less offended. But, it's just pure hate against us and wanting our country nuked to rubble, well....that's bad.
Thank you for that! I try to do my best. At your age? I hope you wouldn't mind if I ask how old you are. Cuz this can mean that you're saying "I'm pretty old and I forget easily" or "I'm so young and I'm not mature enough yet." It seems like we're the same on this one, I also keep forgetting my keys for some reason. I have a habit of throwing my keys somewhere as soon as I get inside my home. And when I wake up next morning....I go all over the place looking for those tiny little bastards! LOL
Ugh, I think the occupy people are the most embarrassing thing to ever come out of America, they rank right up there with the 60s hippies, Jersey Shore and the Kardashians. yuck yuck yuck
Your roommate is going to make my head explode Venom
I am not going to get on him personally anymore than that because he was an American soldier but he is checked.
If he wants to change and make a difference he will vote, if he doesn't like the party then he can go out with his message, verbally communicate it, get a party and vote them in but to sit around and burn an American flag as a way of communication? Shame.
I think I would rather ride a horse to a camel althought I have never been on one:smile: but I am in awe of your pyramids, to think they last throughout time and the man power to create them, not to mention the sweat off a slaves back. And what does my generation leave for the future McDonalds.:crybaby:
The pyramids and nile are on my bucket list, I heard there is a McDonalds right next to them?
Anyway, the flag is too personal for me, for me the flag represents everything that is good about America, the men and woman who froze to death, stared, braved the wilderness, fought off other countries for our freedom and the men and woman who still fight for our freedom and have given their life. The last thing it is for me is our govt and the empty suits in office.
Wasn't someone asking for pictures of Muhammed?
here's the link : Mohammed Image Archive
About the US : high winds blow on high hills.
I support their actions. Look at Iraq. After they captured Bagdad the whole country was as happy as could be. The problems started with the religious fanatics wanting the Americans to go home ASAP (you defeated Sadam for us, now leave!). Why? No non-muslim boots allowed on muslim land.
Some people despice the actions of the Americans blaiming they want to force their way of life upon others, supported dictators and make war for oil.
What they forget is that others also want to force their way of life upon others, but it isn't called freedom , they supported dictators too, worse, they were dictators themselves and they also wanted the oil.
Americans came to help the Europeans in WWI and WWII, saved the Pacific. Helped the French in Vietnam, stopped the invasion of South Korea, helped the Belgians in the Congo, Europe in Bosnia. Liberated Kuwait, got rid of Sadam. Sure friendley nations helped a hand, but they took the lead.
They gave us Hollywood, Jazz and Rock'n Roll. Thanks to them there is the UN and a lot of nations get financial support.
One more thing, before you are going to attack them for what they did, think of what others did too.
Riots, what's the difference?
Some are offended by a movie, others by a little island.
here's the link : Mohammed Image Archive
About the US : high winds blow on high hills.
I support their actions. Look at Iraq. After they captured Bagdad the whole country was as happy as could be. The problems started with the religious fanatics wanting the Americans to go home ASAP (you defeated Sadam for us, now leave!). Why? No non-muslim boots allowed on muslim land.
Some people despice the actions of the Americans blaiming they want to force their way of life upon others, supported dictators and make war for oil.
What they forget is that others also want to force their way of life upon others, but it isn't called freedom , they supported dictators too, worse, they were dictators themselves and they also wanted the oil.
Americans came to help the Europeans in WWI and WWII, saved the Pacific. Helped the French in Vietnam, stopped the invasion of South Korea, helped the Belgians in the Congo, Europe in Bosnia. Liberated Kuwait, got rid of Sadam. Sure friendley nations helped a hand, but they took the lead.
They gave us Hollywood, Jazz and Rock'n Roll. Thanks to them there is the UN and a lot of nations get financial support.
One more thing, before you are going to attack them for what they did, think of what others did too.
Riots, what's the difference?
Some are offended by a movie, others by a little island.
T Boone Pickings says America does have enough natural resourses and we can get off foriegn oil, he just can't get the govt to get out of his way. 9 votes in the senate stopped him again but he is not giving up.
And so we do as you say and leave them on their own and are not in one country over there and then someone here cracks a joke and then what?
Like Capt Frogman says "know your enemy"
Can I tell you what it reminds me of when I see all those peole in the streets at the protest? It reminds me of Hitler and the Germans.
You know many Germans thought Hitler was a fool and thought no one would take him serious and he would fade out and then the next thing you know....