Anti-Islam filmmaker in hiding after protests

[USAgirl]

How do you know your God is the right one? For all you know, God could have lied, or he could have said something, and someone thought it meant something completely different, or, someone could have written it a long time ago as a means of controlling hundreds and thousands of people, and it could all be a lie made up by some random stranger.

Extremely prohibited. Yes, in your world - not ours. Live with it.

Islam is growing at a rate of 2.9% and Christianity is growing at a rate of 2.3%. From there it is easy to throw a projection out into the future and show that if the rates of growth remain the same that Islam will surpass Christianity at some point. But this is really not a helpful way to look at things. In terms of numbers, Christians add more to their numbers every year than Islam. Multiply 2.9% times the total number of Muslims (1.3Billion) and multiply 2.3% times the total number of Christians (2.1 Billion) and you will see that every year Christians add about 11 million more people to our ranks than Islam does. Third grade math - sunshine

Good points NP, not to mention that acts like we are seeing now might actually help the Christain faith grow.

 

[senojekips]

Are you kidding me with this stuff seno???

At very best it was a bit of poking fun of and name calling by a no talent that most people didn't even know about much less agree with and that in your mind is inciting violence and a call for killing and raping?

You have highlighted my point very well, I was showing that "our" culture is not the only one in the world and what you consider "A bit of Fun" in your country is not always seen in the same light elsewhere. The fact that the film was made by a "no talent" means nothing. e.g. The Diplomats were murdered by "nobodies" too,... but they are no less dead.

This fact that something like this could happen was well known and the probable outcome was similarly well known.

(I'm gunna be nice here).... You are making the mistake of judging what has happened by the standard of US Laws and Culture, totally disregarding the fact that the people who were most likely to take offence were not in the US and your laws and Culture have no pull there whatsoever.

The world is a very big place and although the US may be a major military power, but US laws customs and expectations end at your borders and mean very little elsewhere (in many countries they mean absolutely nothing).

You may not like it, but it's a fact of life.

 

[ScarabVenom]

No OWEG, I don't need glasses and where did I ever say "only one group have extremist?" Don't play me like that.

I get if you are Muslim you are defensive of your faith as anyone is with their faith.

Hopefully you don't support the actions of those who have hi jacked the Muslim faith and use it as a form of terror (again, too many for my comfort)

Personally, I wish more of the Muslim faith would come out and speak against these violent acts being done in the name of Allah but that is me and I would feel the same if violent acts were being done in the name of another faith or by people who have no faith.

I too looked into the Cypto Christains and it basically says they are people that are living in places where being a Christain is not allowed and so they live under ground and sometimes even pretend to be of another faith as to not be persecuted and then it went on to list the places where this has happened and it blew my mind that it has gone on in many places for a very long time such as Rome, Japan, and Turkey just to name a few.

You can't discribe an actor who played a false part in a movie because it is so offensive but you can accept 1 man being raped and killed and three others killed?

And I think homosexuality and raping a man is not allowed in the Muslim faith but that act was forgiven and yet an action of one man who made a comment and movie about the prophet is not to be forgiven?

I have actually read the Bible, Torah and Koran in an attempt to understand where they differ and try to learn about all faith or lack there of to better understand people and do you know in some places I would be killed or stoned to death just for having this conversation, not cool and I am grateful my God does not support that.

Anyway OWEG, I don't hate you or ALL Muslims because these people have done this terrible barbaric act, but I do hold your people and the faith responsible for standing up against these acts and holding your own people and faith accountable for their actions as I would of all people and all faith or lack there of.

Although, I'm not a Muslim...but, I do know that Muslims are very very very sensitive when it comes to their religion. What's quite unfortunate is that people who do terrorism and hi-jacking planes and all those stuff do it under the name of Islam and always start by saying Allah Akbar. Although, my knowledge about Islam is quite under satisfactory level but, I do know for sure that their actions get related to religion as a result of manipulation. For example, a sentence can be "fight your enemy" <---it's not in a religion, I'm just giving an example! Anyways, if you find this in a religion...it can be manipulated easily. Because the word "enemy"is so broad. And it solely depends on who you classify as an enemy. Your enemy can be the one who did you harm and it's urging you for self-defense. Your enemy can also be another country, another religion, another faith...etc. I do find the issue about Islamic terrorism to be a result of manipulation rather than the religion itself. Because I do believe all 3 Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are the same except for minor differences. I don't know about Judaism but for example comparing Christianity and Islam, the sins are the same. Also the virtues are the same but those minor differences are like in Christianity God is in 3 forms or something; Holy Spirit, Son and father. For Islam God is just Allah who in Christianity is the father of Jesus Christ. Most Muslims actually, don't believe that type of terrorism. The issue is, the active ones are the ones that support it while the ones that don't are inactive and don't talk about it.

I believe you're talking about the Coptics? Well, since your reply was to O.W.E.G I have to ask if you're talking about Coptics in Egypt. If you are then unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. Coptics and Muslims in Egypt are living in prosperity and harmony and rarely clashes between Coptics and Muslims happen. Although, I do admit it has happened. But, these are minor exceptions. Muslims had their prayers during the revolutions and what I saw was the Coptics around them forming a human-wall. Also, when that movie came up, the Coptics showed that they're bothered and they were in those protests around the American embassy in Cairo holding signs that say "when you bother our brothers, you bother us" and other signs similar to it. But, I do not support the US embassy raids because the government isn't the one who made the movie.

I actually never knew that the American ambassador in Libya was raped. This is really disgusting. I also have no idea why Libyans shoved a knife up their ex-president's butthole before killing him. I honestly need to know the point from this. I also don't think Koran says you get stoned if you deny faith. It's the Muslim extremists that keep coming up with crap and absolute non-sense.

One final thing, I find it wrong to hold his people accountable for these actions. Because as I said before, unfortunately Muslims who don't support those types of actions are not active unlike the extremists. And, I'm sure again Islam doesn't provoke such actions so, I also find it wrong to be blaming his faith. I'm not an expert in religions but, I do find it hard to blame an Abrahamic religion because all 3 religions speak of the exact same god so, all religions came from this same god and thus, if this god provoked something in 1 religion I'm sure he provoked it in the other 2 religions as well.

My condolences for the American ambassador and the other 3 Americans. May their god (whoever it is) remember them for their virtues and forgive their sins and grant them heaven.

 

[George]

.
Anyway its extremely prohibited and i mean EXTREMELY to show our prophet in any form(even the most handsome man living atm) let alone the form they showed him [PBUH] in.

Saw a TV program where a Collector had an Islamic book from way back(1500s?) that had a drawing of your Prophet in it.

 

[ScarabVenom]

Saw a TV program where a Collector had an Islamic book from way back(1500s?) that had a drawing of your Prophet in it.

I doubt that's truly an Islamic book or at least written by a Muslim. Because Muslims -I could be wrong- can't have any type of living thing as the prophet. Even when they make movies about him and they have to show the prophet, they only show like a moving circle of very bright white light, not a figure.

 

[senojekips]

I doubt that's truly an Islamic book or at least written by a Muslim. Because Muslims -I could be wrong- can't have any type of living thing as the prophet. Even when they make movies about him and they have to show the prophet, they only show like a moving circle of very bright white light, not a figure.

I agree. Although I can't say that it's impossible I would say that it's highly unlikely in any Islamic literature.

In my experience, all I have ever heard on this matter. states that the depiction of the human form is not condoned in Islamic scriptures as it maybe considered as idolatry, much less that of the Prophet himself.

 

[George]

I doubt that's truly an Islamic book or at least written by a Muslim. Because Muslims -I could be wrong- can't have any type of living thing as the prophet. Even when they make movies about him and they have to show the prophet, they only show like a moving circle of very bright white light, not a figure.

I agree. Although I can't say that it's impossible I would say that it's highly unlikely in any Islamic literature.

In my experience, all I have ever heard on this matter. states that the depiction of the human form is not condoned in Islamic scriptures as it maybe considered as idolatry, much less that of the Prophet himself.

That's specificly why it was shown, apparently real, so show @ least one image was published way back. On same show(I think) they were saying women in the Mecca/Medina area when Mohammed was alive went topless, or close to it, & his comment about dressing modestly he meant to cover them up, not intending women to wear tents.

 

[senojekips]

That's specificly why it was shown, apparently real, so show @ least one image was published way back. ---snip---

Can you provide a link for any other verifiable reference to this Islamic Book?

It sounds screwy to me.

 

[ScarabVenom]

That's specificly why it was shown, apparently real, so show @ least one image was published way back. On same show(I think) they were saying women in the Mecca/Medina area when Mohammed was alive went topless, or close to it, & his comment about dressing modestly he meant to cover them up, not intending women to wear tents.

I kinda find this hard to believe. Since I do believe that women long before Mohammed used to cover their breasts. They didn't need Mohammed to tell them not to show it. And can you tell me the name of the book? I do wanna check this out. And I hope u were not asking me to provide a photo since back then there were no cameras. Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[ScarabVenom]

Can you provide a link for any other verifiable reference to this Islamic Book?

It sounds screwy to me.

Yeah, it hugely does!

I also want info about the author. He sounds a little....anti-Islamic so far. And I'm truly surprised that such a book never got an Islamic uprising.

 

[ScarabVenom]

I agree. Although I can't say that it's impossible I would say that it's highly unlikely in any Islamic literature.

In my experience, all I have ever heard on this matter. states that the depiction of the human form is not condoned in Islamic scriptures as it maybe considered as idolatry, much less that of the Prophet himself.

Yeah, it's truly highly unlikely that it's even hard to believe. I'm not saying that George is a liar but, it's just quite a surprise.

I don't understand what you were trying to tell me starting from "In my experience" my apologies, but I'm not fluent in English and you used some words that are quite advanced for me. I hope you might consider re-explaining.

 

[senojekips]

Yeah, it's truly highly unlikely that it's even hard to believe. I'm not saying that George is a liar but, it's just quite a surprise.

I don't understand what you were trying to tell me starting from "In my experience" my apologies, but I'm not fluent in English and you used some words that are quite advanced for me. I hope you might consider re-explaining.

No, I'm sure that George is telling the truth also, but like you I am highly skeptical that the book he is talking about is an Islamic book.

When I say "In my experience" it means that the information that I am saying is correct according to everything that I have read or been told.

I do have some understanding of Islam and it's followers, as in my job I often visited Islamic countries and we were always made aware of things that we should not do so that we did not offend the people or break the laws there.

 

[George]

As I was saying a TV show was looking at the muslim religion & pointing out a few things that conflict with the SOP view of it now. The book was shown, written in arabic & had the drawing in it. The dress modestly subject came up on it. It should be noted that styles have changed a lot in the West over the years. At one time showing off a lot of cleavage was in style in Europe & later nothing was shown below the collar. "Sociatal Rules" that women had to follow in the Civil War era here in the US sound Islamic now. Didn't note @ the time what the book was, & can't now remember what the TV show was 60 minutes,20/20, Dateline type or something on the History Channel, ect.

 

[USAgirl]

You have highlighted my point very well, I was showing that "our" culture is not the only one in the world and what you consider "A bit of Fun" in your country is not always seen in the same light elsewhere. The fact that the film was made by a "no talent" means nothing. e.g. The Diplomats were murdered by "nobodies" too,... but they are no less dead.

This fact that something like this could happen was well known and the probable outcome was similarly well known.

(I'm gunna be nice here).... You are making the mistake of judging what has happened by the standard of US Laws and Culture, totally disregarding the fact that the people who were most likely to take offence were not in the US and your laws and Culture have no pull there whatsoever.

The world is a very big place and although the US may be a major military power, but US laws customs and expectations end at your borders and mean very little elsewhere (in many countries they mean absolutely nothing).

You may not like it, but it's a fact of life.

Thanks for the gentle touch seno:mrgreen:

I don't care where in the heck in the world they are, no way no how are you going to get me to go along with, give sympathy to or understand how name calling is a reason to rape and kill and may it rain down on anyone who dared to do that and I mean rain down hard.

And it is totally obvious they don't respect the US but they sure in the heck respect our money that we hand out over and over again.

Let's be clear, I don't think ALL or even the majority of Muslims go along with radical Islamic terrorist, but by sitting by in silence or fear and allowing them to do such barbaric sadistic acts in the name of their God Allah makes them just as guilty.

And what is up Sydney???? It is not enough I have to worry about places like Egypt and Lybia, now I have to worry about frigging Austrailia?

I am all for people living by their own culture and faith in other places but it stops at killing innocent people that are not only guest in their country but that have spent a lifetime of working on behalf of their country and people.

We are not talking about a battle field here seno and I am sorry but in this matter you are either with me or against me, either friend or enemy.

 

[USAgirl]

Although, I'm not a Muslim...but, I do know that Muslims are very very very sensitive when it comes to their religion. What's quite unfortunate is that people who do terrorism and hi-jacking planes and all those stuff do it under the name of Islam and always start by saying Allah Akbar. Although, my knowledge about Islam is quite under satisfactory level but, I do know for sure that their actions get related to religion as a result of manipulation. For example, a sentence can be "fight your enemy" <---it's not in a religion, I'm just giving an example! Anyways, if you find this in a religion...it can be manipulated easily. Because the word "enemy"is so broad. And it solely depends on who you classify as an enemy. Your enemy can be the one who did you harm and it's urging you for self-defense. Your enemy can also be another country, another religion, another faith...etc. I do find the issue about Islamic terrorism to be a result of manipulation rather than the religion itself. Because I do believe all 3 Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are the same except for minor differences. I don't know about Judaism but for example comparing Christianity and Islam, the sins are the same. Also the virtues are the same but those minor differences are like in Christianity God is in 3 forms or something; Holy Spirit, Son and father. For Islam God is just Allah who in Christianity is the father of Jesus Christ. Most Muslims actually, don't believe that type of terrorism. The issue is, the active ones are the ones that support it while the ones that don't are inactive and don't talk about it.

I believe you're talking about the Coptics? Well, since your reply was to O.W.E.G I have to ask if you're talking about Coptics in Egypt. If you are then unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. Coptics and Muslims in Egypt are living in prosperity and harmony and rarely clashes between Coptics and Muslims happen. Although, I do admit it has happened. But, these are minor exceptions. Muslims had their prayers during the revolutions and what I saw was the Coptics around them forming a human-wall. Also, when that movie came up, the Coptics showed that they're bothered and they were in those protests around the American embassy in Cairo holding signs that say "when you bother our brothers, you bother us" and other signs similar to it. But, I do not support the US embassy raids because the government isn't the one who made the movie.

I actually never knew that the American ambassador in Libya was raped. This is really disgusting. I also have no idea why Libyans shoved a knife up their ex-president's butthole before killing him. I honestly need to know the point from this. I also don't think Koran says you get stoned if you deny faith. It's the Muslim extremists that keep coming up with crap and absolute non-sense.

One final thing, I find it wrong to hold his people accountable for these actions. Because as I said before, unfortunately Muslims who don't support those types of actions are not active unlike the extremists. And, I'm sure again Islam doesn't provoke such actions so, I also find it wrong to be blaming his faith. I'm not an expert in religions but, I do find it hard to blame an Abrahamic religion because all 3 religions speak of the exact same god so, all religions came from this same god and thus, if this god provoked something in 1 religion I'm sure he provoked it in the other 2 religions as well.

My condolences for the American ambassador and the other 3 Americans. May their god (whoever it is) remember them for their virtues and forgive their sins and grant them heaven.

My point exactly Venom is that the religous leaders and mainstream Muslim must educate their people on the Koran so that they are less likely to be manipulated in the same way America calls out its own nutjobs like the KKK or Black Panthers.

And I could care less about who wants to stand in the streets with a sign and say they are ticked off about a film, but when they turn violent and rape and kill anyone but especially Americans then it is wrong and I hold anyone there or supporting it accountable.

I will post more on this group the Egyptian Christains, I am just learning about them myself because the guy who made the film is said to be of that group, but maybe he was just a sleeper cell Isalmist terrorit planted in that group to place blame on Christians and have people turn violent against Christans? Who knows?

 

[USAgirl]

I agree. Although I can't say that it's impossible I would say that it's highly unlikely in any Islamic literature.

In my experience, all I have ever heard on this matter. states that the depiction of the human form is not condoned in Islamic scriptures as it maybe considered as idolatry, much less that of the Prophet himself.

So, where does it say rape and kill anyone who draws a picture of the Prophet? Man, the Islamic faith has been manipulated and hi jacked big time.

No condoned is not rape and kill.

 

[ScarabVenom]

No, I'm sure that George is telling the truth also, but like you I am highly skeptical that the book he is talking about is an Islamic book.

When I say "In my experience" it means that the information that I am saying is correct according to everything that I have read or been told.

I do have some understanding of Islam and it's followers, as in my job I often visited Islamic countries and we were always made aware of things that we should not do so that we did not offend the people or break the laws there.

Yeah, we're kinda on the same boat when it comes to that book.

I know what "In my experience" means, I just didn't understand the sentence that started with that.

Exactly, Muslims are quite sensitive. Although, I'm not a Muslim but I do never talk too much about Islam to a Muslim since sometimes they get offended when a non-Muslim says something wrong about their religion.

 

[ScarabVenom]

My point exactly Venom is that the religous leaders and mainstream Muslim must educate their people on the Koran so that they are less likely to be manipulated in the same way America calls out its own nutjobs like the KKK or Black Panthers.

And I could care less about who wants to stand in the streets with a sign and say they are ticked off about a film, but when they turn violent and rape and kill anyone but especially Americans then it is wrong and I hold anyone there or supporting it accountable.

I will post more on this group the Egyptian Christains, I am just learning about them myself because the guy who made the film is said to be of that group, but maybe he was just a sleeper cell Isalmist terrorit planted in that group to place blame on Christians and have people turn violent against Christans? Who knows?

Well...if you want to hold accountable the one who killed the Americans, I don't understand why you're talking about Egyptians. The ones who raped and killed were the Libyans not the Egyptians. Although, the Egyptians did attack the embassy but I don't recall hearing about any Americans getting harmed. The ones who got harmed were the protesters by the police force.

I actually, find what you say making sense. It could be someone trying to turn people against the Christians and this happened multiple times before so it's not new stuff.

 

[George]

Yeah, Libyans or, more likely Al Quida who used the protestors as usefull idiots providing a screen for the Terrorists to blend into for the attack. On thing I haven't heard was if the visit was preplanned/announced or not.

KKK & Black Panthers are Racial groups not Religious groups

A Brit's view

 

[USAgirl]

Yeah, we're kinda on the same boat when it comes to that book.

I know what "In my experience" means, I just didn't understand the sentence that started with that.

Exactly, Muslims are quite sensitive. Although, I'm not a Muslim but I do never talk too much about Islam to a Muslim since sometimes they get offended when a non-Muslim says something wrong about their religion.

Muslims are not the only sensitive people when it comes to their faith Venon, it is just most people don't go out and rape and kill others for making a comment, cartoon, movie or joke.

I talk to everyone about their faith, espeically when I was in England, I made lots of Muslim friends there.

One conversation I had with a Pakistan driver for over an hour was really eye opening.