Israel , America or palestine is terriost ?

[Eden]

Peace with Israeli terms would be more specific. Israel wanted to keep their settlements in the Sinai protected by IDF soldiers, Israel wanted to keep the 3 airports in the Sinai, Israel also wanted half of the Suez canal. Peace happened, eh let's say true. But, Israel doesn't have settlements in the Sinai and no soldiers in there, too. And, it doesn't have half of the Suez canal as they tried on the 15th of July 1967.

Egyptian tanks the T-55 had 100mm gun with no range finder. While the Israeli M48s had 105mm gun with an optical range finder. Technologically, to this date, Egypt was never superior to Israel in it's terms. In quantity though, we have always been superior. The T-54/55 is not superior to the M48.

For the Jets, yours were much more superior and Egypt avoided as much as possible facing plane to plane fight. Thus, they used the SAM missiles to neutralize your air force.

Eh, I guess you're speaking of the Syrians. We did have support too, but because of the events we didn't really use it and some of them ran back home. If you want a complete list of all Egypt's support from the outside, you can ask me for it.

In 1956 you were not alone, were you? It was Israel, France AND Britain that was a major power by the time. And we backed off from the Sinai because Nasser believed that if he keeps fighting the IDF from the border, he will find the British and the French coming from the Suez Canal that will make the entire Egyptian army ambushed. But, we're not talking about 1956, we're talking about 1973 so let's please stay on topic, shall we?

I demand a proof. In 1973, no-body aimed for taking Jerusalem or Tel Aviv and all those stuff you're saying. If that's true, I ask for proof. But I believe you will not find any because that's not true.

Yes ofcourse we wanted,but peace was better for us.

Egypt also had T-72's.alot of them if im not wrong .You had night vision for sure.And as i said.Much bigger army.
Air superiorty?Our jets might been more advanced.But you had much bigger air force.And you mean tried to neutralize our airforce,unsuccessfully.

Yes in 1956 we werent alone,Britian and france assisted us.But yet your army was bigger.You can check that for yourself.

I will try to find you the source..i read that long time ago.

 

[Cartman]

Well...how many times do YOU need to be told. You didn't lose any war, yes you did lose the 1973 war. I didn't say we won the war because we got the Sinai back, I've given military details to you before in another thread, I ask you, when did I claim we won and the reason of our victory is that we got the Sinai in the end? Actually, you're the one who uses this way in arguing, you're the one who keep saying "Oh, we gave back the Sinai after the peace treaty not after the war so we won." So, before accusing me of such things, listen to yourself first. We did surprise you, we agree on something. You pushed us back? I demand proof. Give me your proof for this specific point. Provide me with a map that shows how the Egyptian Army was "pushed" as you're claiming. Bring me a map with the Egyptian bridgeheads pushed beyond the canal. You're not going to find any, just to tell you. Don't use the word "pushed" because it shows your knowledge level in the topic. We got the entire Sinai through peace treaty, true. But that's a direct result of the war, as well. But, let's ignore that, Israel backed off 40 kilometers away from the Egyptian forces that didn't back off a step, that's on January, 1974. Learn about the disengagement of forces agreement. My government has nothing to do with this really...

[FONT=&quot]"One Egyptian plan was to attack our units west of the canal from the direction of Cairo. The other was to cut-off our canal bridgehead by a link-up of the Second and Third Armies on the east bank. Both plans were based on massive artillery pounding of our forces, who were not well fortified and who would suffer heavy casualties. It was therefore thought that Israel would withdraw from the west bank, since she was most sensitive on the subject of soldier's lives. Egypt, at the time had a total of 1,700 first-line tanks on both sides of the canal front, 700 on the east bank and 1,000 on the west bank. Also on the west bank, in the second line, were an additional 600 tanks for the defense of Cairo. She had some 2,000 artillery pieces, about 500 operational aircraft, and at least 130 SAM missile batteries positioned around our forces so as to deny us air support[/FONT]" - Moshe Dayan, Israeli minister of defense. <----that's your government, not mine.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“However, we could not along ten days of fighting to overcome any of Egyptian armies. The second army resisted and prevented us ultimately to reach Ismailia city. [/FONT]As for the third army, in spite of our encircling them they resisted and advanced to occupy in fact a wider area of land at the east. Thus, we can not say that we defeated or conquered them." - David Elazar, Israeli Chief of Staff <----that's also your government, not mine.[/FONT]

That's Moshe Dayan's grave, not any of our generals.

Sign says, "Minister of failure." signed by "The Fallen".

The "minister of failure" in this war, wasn't on our side, he was on yours.

we won in every aspect of this war. there isnt a single thing you recieved from this war except dead soldiers. even after you suprised us you still lost more soldiers and ground than we did. how exactly is that a lose for us?

 

[ScarabVenom]

Yes ofcourse we wanted,but peace was better for us.

Egypt also had T-72's.alot of them if im not wrong .You had night vision for sure.And as i said.Much bigger army.
Air superiorty?Our jets might been more advanced.But you had much bigger air force.And you mean tried to neutralize our airforce,unsuccessfully.

Yes in 1956 we werent alone,Britian and france assisted us.But yet your army was bigger.You can check that for yourself.

I will try to find you the source..i read that long time ago.

T-72s I believe were used in one battle but not a lot of them, Im not sure. For night vision I don't know either. Provide me with a source to prove we did. We had much bigger airforce? Not true, we started the war with 200 according to Egyptian generals. Failed? I guess you forgot how many Israeli jets were destroyed by the SAMs and you also forgot how your airforce couldnt do much unlike previous wars. At the end if the war you were the ones with no air support read my previous post. Lets finish 1973 then go back to 1956, lets not cherry pick.

 

[ScarabVenom]

we won in every aspect of this war. there isnt a single thing you recieved from this war except dead soldiers. even after you suprised us you still lost more soldiers and ground than we did. how exactly is that a lose for us?

You keep claiming claiming claiming and you never say any details to support your claim. We ended up with both shores of the canal at the very least. Next time you want to claim something provide details and if I need proof Ill ask you for it.

 

[Del Boy]

I have something to say guys,

Why are you speaking of contracts and crap? Maybe there was a contract between the Palestinians (forced) and the Israelis?

In these negotiations, Israel has been under duress at all times of course.

Just another FACT to chew on.

 

[Eden]

T-72s I believe were used in one battle but not a lot of them, Im not sure. For night vision I don't know either. Provide me with a source to prove we did. We had much bigger airforce? Not true, we started the war with 200 according to Egyptian generals. Failed? I guess you forgot how many Israeli jets were destroyed by the SAMs and you also forgot how your airforce couldnt do much unlike previous wars. At the end if the war you were the ones with no air support read my previous post. Lets finish 1973 then go back to 1956, lets not cherry pick.

T-72 were used in most battles,and you had night vision.(T-72 has night vision and if im not wrong egypt modified T-55 also had.)pattons didn't have.
200 jets?not true.Egypt had 627 jets in the start of the war.Israel had only 475.
Add to that another 300 Iraqi jets and 55 jordan jets.
(Jordan and Iraq also contributed alot alot of soldiers.tanks and etc')

I didn't forget.Not much at all,101 overall israeli planes were shot down in 1973.we had 300 left.So we did have air support.You didn't have air support.555 egyptian planes were shot down.
Please,if you don't really know the details don't comment.

 

[Cartman]

You keep claiming claiming claiming and you never say any details to support your claim. We ended up with both shores of the canal at the very least. Next time you want to claim something provide details and if I need proof Ill ask you for it.

your mistake is that you relate the war with the return of sinai. you got it only because of the peace agreement. enough proofs has been posted before, i wont bust my ass for you or any other guy who's only purpose in life is to argue about everything

 

[ScarabVenom]

T-72 were used in most battles,and you had night vision.(T-72 has night vision and if im not wrong egypt modified T-55 also had.)pattons didn't have.
200 jets?not true.Egypt had 627 jets in the start of the war.Israel had only 475.
Add to that another 300 Iraqi jets and 55 jordan jets.
(Jordan and Iraq also contributed alot alot of soldiers.tanks and etc')

I didn't forget.Not much at all,101 overall israeli planes were shot down in 1973.we had 300 left.So we did have air support.You didn't have air support.555 egyptian planes were shot down.
Please,if you don't really know the details don't comment.

Well...since I'm not a weapon expert, after some research...I found this, it seems like Egypt never actually had T-72. She doesn't even have them now and never had them. According to a video, it seems we're talking about the T-62 that Egypt got DURING the war and they all were destroyed. Egypt modified the T-55, I'm not sure.

You're the only one who ever claimed Egypt to have higher technology. That never happened and to this date never happened. We're superior in quantities not in quality. Weapon experts will be more useful in this.

Before talking about Arab support, let me sum it up for you....


Algeria: 1 squadron of Sukhoi Su-7 arrived on 10th of October and had a very bad technical situation and didn't engage into any battles. 1 squadron of Mig-17s arrived on 11th of October and didn't engage into any battles. 1 squadron Mig-21 arrived on 12th of October and didn't engage into any battles. 1 armored brigade arrived on the 13th of October and was a part of the 4th armored division and only engaged in firing artillery during the period between 28th of October and the 14th of January and was a part of the "Gap Liquidation Plan" which didn't happen due to the events.

Libya: 1 squadron of Mirage-5 but their pilots were very poorly trained and never engaged into any battles because Libya was scared for their lives. 1 armored brigade arrived at the end of the war and was going to be a part of the "Gap Liquidation Plan"

Iraq:1 squadron of Hawker Hunter planes arrived before the war and engaged into the first air strike on the 6th of October and their pilots made an acceptable performance.

Morocco and Sudan each one of them sent 1 armored brigade arrived by the end of the war and were a part of the final plan. The Moroccan one had very minor exchange fire battles during the last period from 28th of October to 14th of January.

Kuwait: 1 Kuwaiti battalion arrived before the war and were stationed behind the front-lines and when the gap happened, they retreated without fighting.

Tunisia: 1 Tunisian battalion arrived by the end of the war and were a part of the final plan.

Our air support depended on the SAMs more than actual aircraft. I stated before that it was the SAMs' jobs to neutralize the Israeli air force. And you claim having air support. Read 1 of my previous posts, Moshe Dayan said himself that the IDF had no air support and it's forces were not fortified and that's why Israel backed off from African Egypt because Israel is sensitive on it's soldiers' lives.

You're the one who keeps going on circles, we finish a part we go back to it again. No matter what, still remember that you said "Egypt didn't lose" now, I'm trying to prove Egypt victorious. Because I know that later you will come up saying "Israel won."

 

[ScarabVenom]

your mistake is that you relate the war with the return of sinai. you got it only because of the peace agreement. enough proofs has been posted before, i wont bust my ass for you or any other guy who's only purpose in life is to argue about everything

Never did. I never related the war to the return of the Sinai. I say Egypt is victorious according to what happened from the 6th of October until the 18th of January, 1974. Which is the military action period. I did more than once, state that I admit the Sinai returning by peace but what lead to peace is the war.

Well...where are those proofs? We talked about this before, me and you in another thread and you never replied back. Now, you come up to talk again and trying to back off in a face-whitening way. So, be it, though. I really got tired of arguing the exact same person more than once about the same topic in different threads.

 

[VDKMS]

To VDKMS,Ansar al Islam had ONE base on the North Eastern Border of Iraq straddled between Iran and Kurdistan. They were an Islamist group that had ZERO connection to Al-Queda. They were more about women veiling themselves within Iraq as opposed to a global Islamist state. US special operations along with Peshmerga forces crushed their compound during the first week of the war.

better read this:
UN Security Council Committee pursuant to resolution:

"Ansar al-Islam was listed on 24 February 2003 pursuant to paragraphs 1 and 2 of resolution 1390 (2002) being associated with Al-Qaida, Usama bin Laden or the Taliban for “participating in the financing, planning, facilitating, preparing or perpetrating of acts or activities by, in conjunction with, under the name of, on behalf or in support of”, “supplying, selling or transferring arms and related materiel to” or “otherwise supporting acts or activities of” Al-Qaida (QE.A.4.01) and Usama bin Laden (QI.B.8.01)."​

Saddam had nothing to do with this group and the Pesh couldn't get to it because every time they tried they would disappear into Iran. Once the Kurdish Autonomous Region was created with the enforcement of the No Fly Zone after Gulf one, Saddams forces couldn't get to their base to take them out. Extremists Muslems were as big a threat to Saddams power as they are to the leaders of Iraq today. VERY BAD example again.

Sadam didn't attack this group because they had a common enemy : Kurdish Autonomous Region.

ANSAR AL-ISLAM: Saddam's al-Qaeda Connection?

"According to a former Iraqi intelligence agent imprisoned by Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq, a member of Ansar's ruling council, Abu Wa'el, once worked for Saddam's intelligence agency"​

Here's a list of extremist groups that sprung up AFTER the invasion:
Ansar al Sunna
Islamist state of Iraq
Al Queda in Iraq
United Jihad Factions Counsel
Islamic Army of Iraq
Muj Shura Counsel
Jaysh al Rashideen
Naqshabandi Order
Jaysh al Mahdi
Supreme Islamic counsel of Iraq

These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head because I actually had to fight these guys on a regular basis over the course of the 2 1/2 years I spent in that country.

Sure those groups were formed because of their religious duty to combat non-muslim occupiers (to use their words). Just as such groups are fighting all over the world to combat non-muslims (shia call sunni heretics and vice versa) who have power on muslim ground (in their point of view). That's why Islamists are fighting Israel.

Explain to me why I personally saw and explored captured Iraqi Army equipment that had US nomenclatures. Or the dozens and dozens of M109 series self propelled howitzers that were scattered along route Tampa south of Baghdad and along Taji airstrip TO THIS DAY? Or the aiming circles, boots, gas masks, compasses etc etc ect that I personally handled on overrun Iraqi installations...all complete with their NSN numbers still marking them within our supply system?

I suppose I imagined all of that?

I'll explain:

"Iraq's holdings of M109s were entirely made up of war prizes. In addition to an unknown number of Iranian M109s taken during the 1980-1988 Gulf War, Iraq was believed to have captured 18 Kuwaiti M109s in its August 1990 invasion and annexation of Kuwait."​

I didn't say ALL the equipment was supplied by the US. Some of it was. The US also used proxies to give money to Saddam.
Here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

Sure, the US supported Iraq because they were at war with Iran, so did France an Great Britain plus some other countries. The Chinese supported both.

Furthermore, the very WMDs that the US went to Iraq over, a portion of them were SOLD TO SADDAM BY THE UNITED STATES DURING THE IRAN IRAQ WAR! UN inspectors confiscated much of it AFTER the 1st Gulf war...

Here's a quip:

"U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record."


In October 1989, President Bush signed NSD 26, which begins, "Access to Persian Gulf oil and the security of key friendly states in the area are vital to U.S. national security." With respect to Iraq, the directive stated, "Normal relations between the United States and Iraq would serve our longer term interests and promote stability in both the Persian Gulf and the Middle East."[43]
On August 2, 1990, at 2:00 am, local time, Iraq launched an invasion of oil-rich Kuwait. America's expedient ally had, overnight, become its most bitter enemy."


Is this not the truth?

Did I imagine all of the things I saw?​

​

Sure it is the truth and I believe what you saw overthere, but the US cannot be responsible for every country that has US military arms and goes to war. Friends come and go. But you agree that Iraq had WMD's before the invasion (I call it liberation), no matter where they came from (local or abroad)

Did I have to KILL people for this b******t? Did I have to see friends killed and maimed for these fvcking lies? Now that I'm a father I'm starting to ask these questions. And my gut tells me that maybe the guys I killed were trying to kill me because I didn't fvcking belong there in the first place. Now I've got to square myself with that...I've got to live with it. But I want answers. I don't appreciate you shitting on my experiences from behind a goddam computer when you've never had to pull the trigger or medevac your buddy. How many death letters have you held in your pocket for your buddies?

Now wait a minute. After WWII the US fought many other wars so I don't think you joined the US forces thinking to stay in your barracks until you retire. I joined the Belgian Air Force with the possibility of seeing action. Fortunately for me I didn't see any. The few dead I saw were from accidents.

I gave my youth, I gave my blood, I gave my sanity for that place. How many more of my fallen brothers names do I have to tatoo on my side? I was lied to. WE were lied to. All for special interest. THAT'S the truth.

We are all just tiny pieces that will be ground down in the mills of foreign policy interests. But that's what this tread is all about, policy interests.

You sure about that? I know that they broke 2 ceasefires during the war which I believe were UN resolutions, too were they not?

Those were UN Council resolutions, but they demanded that the parties concerned should negotiate a settlement. BTW both parties claimed the other broke the ceasefire on 22 and 24 oktober. On 25 oktober a new UN Council resolution 340, wich recalled resolutions 338 and 339 (the former ceasefires), demanded the ceasefire to be respected. Both parties complied.

It amuses me in many ways that until recently I had stayed out of these discussions as they are almost always never ending wastes of time but then VD went off on his "Islmamist" rant that seemed to include the entire Muslim world and we inherited the two Israelis who's attitude towards a people they are happily displacing through fairly nefarious means was to refer to them as "Animals" or "Savages" which really made me stick around just to ensure that these ideological lunatics don't get the last word.

Again you are twisting my words! You know very well about what kind of muslims I am talking about or do you disregard my post were I explained it to you (this is the second time). Why do you do that again??? See thread "Israel Got Him" post #244. Did you forget or didn't you want to know???

Actually the fact that they can riot or protest without fear is an indication of a civilised society and as far as I recall the guy was elected so he cant be considered a dictator either.

Are you saying that you cannot become a dictator after elections? A dictatorship has nothing to do with voting but with the power they acquire.

 

[VDKMS]

Interesting interview I came across. I read his book years ago, it was one of the first books on radical Islam that I read. It's called Through Our Enemies Eyes. At the time of it being published he couldn't name himself as the author for fear of reprisal. He simply puts "Anonymous" as the author. A very insightful read.

CIA Agent Exposes How Al-Qaeda Dosen't Exist - YouTube

Strange. That same man (Mr.Scheuer) told Mr.Russert in an interview (together with Senator McCain) that Al Qaeda was a large organization headed by Bin Laden.

Transcript for Nov. 21 - Copyright 2004, National Broadcasting Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

I know the peace treaty was in 1979. I'm speaking of 18th of January 1974. According to the source you sent me, I don't see where it says that it was Egypt who pushed for the treaty. Regardless, are you saying that because Sadat made a peace treaty means he lost? Again, you're wrong,

[FONT=&quot]“He[Sadat] told of his lonely decision making that led to the war, of his conclusion that there would never be a serious negotiation so long as Israel was able to equate security with military predominance. Now that he had vindicated Egyptian honor, Sadat told me, he had two objectives: to "regain my territory" (the 1967 boundary in the Sinai) and to make peace.” - Henry Kissinger.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Maybe I disagree with the peace treaty, but, those were Sadat's goals and they were both accomplished.
[/FONT]

I doubt that. He first tried militarily and that didn't work out so to save his face the only thing he could do was to make peace with israel. There are still foreign (UN) troops in the Sinai and the Egyptians need Israel's approval to send in the military. Making a peace deal with Israel as an Arab requires much courage. I give him credit for that. Unfortunately only Jordan followed his way. If the other Arab nations would have followed Sadat there would be peace in that region.

T-72s I believe were used in one battle but not a lot of them, Im not sure. For night vision I don't know either. Provide me with a source to prove we did. We had much bigger airforce? Not true, we started the war with 200 according to Egyptian generals. Failed? I guess you forgot how many Israeli jets were destroyed by the SAMs and you also forgot how your airforce couldnt do much unlike previous wars. At the end if the war you were the ones with no air support read my previous post. Lets finish 1973 then go back to 1956, lets not cherry pick.

I could not directly find that Egypt use T-72 tanks in that war. They had T-62's though.

"In the T-62's first combat actions during the Yom Kipper War of 1973 the tank shown a tendency to catch fire when hit, making the T-62 a threat to its own crews as much as any Israeli tank. As with the T-54 and T-55, hundreds of T-62 tanks were captured by the Israelis from the Syrians and Egyptians."​

 

[ScarabVenom]

I doubt that. He first tried militarily and that didn't work out so to save his face the only thing he could do was to make peace with israel. There are still foreign (UN) troops in the Sinai and the Egyptians need Israel's approval to send in the military. Making a peace deal with Israel as an Arab requires much courage. I give him credit for that. Unfortunately only Jordan followed his way. If the other Arab nations would have followed Sadat there would be peace in that region.

That was in Henry Kissinger's diaries and I believe he did state it was on Sunday Oct 7. And on Oct 7, Egyptian victory was it's mightiest. Me and you discussed this before, Egypt was victorious in the war. This is the 3rd time me and you discuss the same topic. Please, I humbly ask to read my previous posts. Here you go, you stated the point in which I hate that 1979 peace treaty. I would have given him credit had he signed a more fair treaty.

I could not directly find that Egypt use T-72 tanks in that war. They had T-62's though.

"In the T-62's first combat actions during the Yom Kipper War of 1973 the tank shown a tendency to catch fire when hit, making the T-62 a threat to its own crews as much as any Israeli tank. As with the T-54 and T-55, hundreds of T-62 tanks were captured by the Israelis from the Syrians and Egyptians."​

Yes, I made a mistake. But, I believe I fixed it in the next post. Egypt never had T-72s even to this date. I did say this, during the war Egypt got some T-62s but they were destroyed.

I did state I'm not a weaponry expert so, it's not really my area of expertise. But, I know Egyptians used T-54/55 during the war when it comes to tanks. And I believe the main plane was the MiG-21 with some A-4 Skyhawks. SAM-2 and some portable SAM-6 for air defense.

 

[udaka]

I don't think the palestine is terriost, they just lack of strong military power protect themselves.palestine had no F16 fighter,no M1a1 tank,no b52, every body know the machines are killing-machines. The palestine no very strong proganda machines like Ameircan and Israel.It let the Earth people believe all palestines are terriost,the Israel are victim.
If said palestine is terriost, the Israel and American are terriost,too. The Israel use tanks attacked palestine civilian, USA use Bomber killing other people like Vietnam,Iraq and Afahanstan!
The arms of palastine use rocket and remote bombs kill people. The Israel and American use F16,F15,B52 killing people on the Earth .and kill more! What is the different?

Remember ,when some countries didn't try to stop their military machines on the Earth ,they had no qualification label other weak countries as terriosts.

 

[Cartman]

I don't think the palestine is terriost, they just lack of strong military power protect themselves.palestine had no F16 fighter,no M1a1 tank,no b52, every body know the machines are killing-machines. The palestine no very strong proganda machines like Ameircan and Israel.It let the Earth people believe all palestines are terriost,the Israel are victim.
If said palestine is terriost, the Israel and American are terriost,too. The Israel use tanks attacked palestine civilian, USA use Bomber killing other people like Vietnam,Iraq and Afahanstan!
The arms of palastine use rocket and remote bombs kill people. The Israel and American use F16,F15,B52 killing people on the Earth .and kill more! What is the different?

Remember ,when some countries didn't try to stop their military machines on the Earth ,they had no qualification label other weak countries as terriosts.

they have no tanks, airplane and good weapons so they put on suicide vest on their children and blow up on a bus? please... if there isnt a threat from that villaga (and there probably is because hamas like to hide weapons and explosives in civilian houses) the IDF wont do anything to it... and if they will they will announce first so any civilian can get away, just like in could pillar before any attack. we target terrorists, they target civilians... and dont start b******tting me by quoting spike's almost every comment here and using his idiotic propoganda sources.

 

[MontyB]

I don't think the palestine is terriost, they just lack of strong military power protect themselves.palestine had no F16 fighter,no M1a1 tank,no b52, every body know the machines are killing-machines. The palestine no very strong proganda machines like Ameircan and Israel.It let the Earth people believe all palestines are terriost,the Israel are victim.
If said palestine is terriost, the Israel and American are terriost,too. The Israel use tanks attacked palestine civilian, USA use Bomber killing other people like Vietnam,Iraq and Afahanstan!
The arms of palastine use rocket and remote bombs kill people. The Israel and American use F16,F15,B52 killing people on the Earth .and kill more! What is the different?

Remember ,when some countries didn't try to stop their military machines on the Earth ,they had no qualification label other weak countries as terriosts.

I think peoples opinions of the Palestinians is changing rapidly primarily because of the disparity in the fight and the dawning reality that peace with Israel will never happen because they are not really negotiating in good faith (To offer something you know the opposition can't accept is not good faith) they have become "the boy who cried wolf".

But hey you don't have to take my word for it all you have to do is ask these people who claim to want peace with the Palestinians how they think it can be achieved so far I have yet to see a viable peace plan from any of the pro-Israeli team here.

I would suggest that the majority of those who voted for the Palestinian upgrade at the UN are expecting a Palestinian state based on the 1967 lines with 1 for 1 land swaps to tidy up the borders.

que VD waffling on about Sharia Law and the the usual macho BS from the other two Marx brothers.

 

[hamidreza]

Yes, the world conscience is waking up. And the mystery of this awakening is the resistance of Palestine people.
Why a group of people who are living in bad conditions and don't have any connection with outside world except that some hidden tunnel under Rafah crossing and don't have any strong ally in the world, are fighting, almost with empty-handed, by stone, wood and homemade weapons, against a regime who has advanced weapons and supported comprehensive and frequently by west especially US? In fact nobody does this without an important reason.

It is why they say they are the winner in eight days Gaze war although 145 of them were killed. Because their innocent children blood is the cost they are paying to wake up the world conscience and it is the only way they could be Victorious and they are completely right.

 

[Eden]

I think peoples opinions of the Palestinians is changing rapidly primarily because of the disparity in the fight and the dawning reality that peace with Israel will never happen because they are not really negotiating in good faith (To offer something you know the opposition can't accept is not good faith) they have become "the boy who cried wolf".

But hey you don't have to take my word for it all you have to do is ask these people who claim to want peace with the Palestinians how they think it can be achieved so far I have yet to see a viable peace plan from any of the pro-Israeli team here.

I would suggest that the majority of those who voted for the Palestinian upgrade at the UN are expecting a Palestinian state based on the 1967 lines with 1 for 1 land swaps to tidy up the borders.

que VD waffling on about Sharia Law and the the usual macho BS from the other two Marx brothers.

Yea..
Have you ever heard about Camp david?or Oslo?
please readabout these.
I want peace with the palestnians even that i think they don't deserve it.
I'm willing to negotaite with them,the problem here is that we don't belive them anymore.We gave them Gaza and look what happend.
You seriously don't know a dam thing about this conflict.Not about the Palestnian side and really not about the Israeli side(i don't even think you care about us.Seems to me that most of Israeli haters here got personal motives).Since 1937 we offered them peace(Yes i know israel didn't even exist back then,the brits wanted to split the land and we agreed)
They just don't want peace.
In 2008 Olmart(ex israeli PM)offered them East jerusalem and 97% of the west bank.And yes they didn't agree.And the guy who disagree is still in charge.So why should we give the WB to an ex terrorist who isn't reliabe..god knows what they will do after we give them this land.Don't forget Israel security needs.

 

[udaka]

ha,ha ,ha ,ha ha, Israel don't massacre civilians of Palastine? it is a joke! Israel army had occured many massacre events in decade years.
I take a example,According to France-Presse reported, On December 27th,28th,2008 year, Israeli warplanes launched massive air strikes on the Gaza area has caused 271 people death and 620 people injured.
Up to 29th, they medical deparment of Palastine found 271 people died and 620 people were injured. The latest round of Israeli air strikes caused six deaths.
Everybody agree this operation is terror action?

they have no tanks, airplane and good weapons so they put on suicide vest on their children and blow up on a bus? please... if there isnt a threat from that villaga (and there probably is because hamas like to hide weapons and explosives in civilian houses) the IDF wont do anything to it... and if they will they will announce first so any civilian can get away, just like in could pillar before any attack. we target terrorists, they target civilians... and dont start b******tting me by quoting spike's almost every comment here and using his idiotic propoganda sources.

No any nonsense, the picture is truth!

 

[Eden]

ha,ha ,ha ,ha ha, Israel don't massacre civilians of Palastine? it is a joke! Israel army had occured many massacre events in decade years.
I take a example,According to France-Presse reported, On December 27th,28th,2008 year, Israeli warplanes launched massive air strikes on the Gaza area has caused 271 people death and 620 people injured.
Up to 29th, they medical deparment of Palastine found 271 people died and 620 people were injured. The latest round of Israeli air strikes caused six deaths.
Everybody agree this operation is terror action?




No any nonsense, the picture is truth!

Do you know what terror even means?
Terror is one hamas shoots rockets into Israeli cities then go hide in the crowed(which is one of the reasons why innocent people died.)Using them as human shield.
Israel targeted only and only hamas&co terrorists.But just like in every war.People die.The difference is that one Israeli citizens died,Hamas partied.When we accidently killed innocent palestnian ,we called this a tragedy.
And if what we did in Hamas is a terror attack.Then every country in the world.Is a terrorist country,
as for the picture.Seriously...?i can get you so many pictures from the Israeli side of the conflict that you won't be able to sleep at the night.(after all,terroists bombed 36 buses here.And countless of other terror attacks).
Besides,i doubt this picture is even from gaza.

 

[udaka]

ha,ha ! how a double stander! When Hamas attack your countries, it' terrorist! When Israeli air attack civilians of palestnian.It call "tragedy",
ha,ha,ha , how a shameless excuse! So in the air-strike of 2008 December ,27th,28th. The Israeli very easy misfire and miskilled many women and chirldren of palastain, because Israeli claim they are all the "terrorist?"
If you doult this picture is not from Gasa, why don't you suspicious these women and chirdren in the picture ? they weren't dead in the firepower of Israeli army. you should claim they were killed by Palastain arms.

Do you know what terror even means?
Terror is one hamas shoots rockets into Israeli cities then go hide in the crowed(which is one of the reasons why innocent people died.)Using them as human shield.
Israel targeted only and only hamas&co terrorists.But just like in every war.People die.The difference is that one Israeli citizens died,Hamas partied.When we accidently killed innocent palestnian ,we called this a tragedy.
And if what we did in Hamas is a terror attack.Then every country in the world.Is a terrorist country,
as for the picture.Seriously...?i can get you so many pictures from the Israeli side of the conflict that you won't be able to sleep at the night.(after all,terroists bombed 36 buses here.And countless of other terror attacks).
Besides,i doubt this picture is even from gaza.