In my personal opinion, theres no military in the world who has as good of an air force, and navy as the USA, not to mention the USA has skilled experience personal who have faced many different situations... taking on a military that spends that much money and is that active as USA is not a good idea and im doubtful they would get half way across the pacific or the atlantic if any direction. If they tried to take Canada, just like USA its a natural fortress, a country like ours could mobilize and put up a fight until American/ NATO allies arrived.
Invasion USA - possibility or myth?
Gary of CA
Active member
A full scale D-Day type invasion?
The logistical nightmare for an overseas army to invade us is staggering. The Naval War College studied this decades before WW II and concluded that while we could be attacked, there was no nation that had the ability to invade us. Where is their staging area? They would need countless ammunition ships, oilers to carry fuel oil, hospital ships, refrigerator ships, food stores, repair ships, tugs, lighters, minesweepers, etc. just to maintain that army once it landed.
If we get invaded, it will have to be from the south where the enemy can build up on neutral soil and then attack or drive up Mexico to get to us.
The logistical nightmare for an overseas army to invade us is staggering. The Naval War College studied this decades before WW II and concluded that while we could be attacked, there was no nation that had the ability to invade us. Where is their staging area? They would need countless ammunition ships, oilers to carry fuel oil, hospital ships, refrigerator ships, food stores, repair ships, tugs, lighters, minesweepers, etc. just to maintain that army once it landed.
If we get invaded, it will have to be from the south where the enemy can build up on neutral soil and then attack or drive up Mexico to get to us.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think determining any level of qualitative superiority is impossible as the US has never fought anything but 2nd Tier Soviet equipment, how US forces would go against modern European nations is untested and will probably remain so.
I would also suggest that any nation looking at an invasion would also understand the importance of air superiority when sailing up to a coast line or any operation for that matter.
Which is pretty much it in a nut shell, it is not so much an inability to attack the US as much as it is the difficulty in maintaining and supplying that force over an extended period of time.
captiva303
Active member
dudes te whole world is planning to invade...
im not supposed to tell you that but it is going to happen i swear...
im not supposed to tell you that but it is going to happen i swear...
radarsonar
Active member
The answer lies not in discussing the future scenarios and capabilities of other countries to invade US.
Look back a century. In January 1903, the world was at peace and Britain was the sole superpower. It was the greatest empire ever known. Britain's First Lord of the Admiralty in 1903 would have looked with contempt at all other counties.
Today, the tide has turned in favor of US. History teaches that anything is possible and the wheel turns. But, I wouldn't want the wheel to turn a lot because that would cause an power struggle to fill the vaccum, and in any case today, the US is doing a "ok" job of protecting the world, though very limited and largely based on narrow self interests.
Look back a century. In January 1903, the world was at peace and Britain was the sole superpower. It was the greatest empire ever known. Britain's First Lord of the Admiralty in 1903 would have looked with contempt at all other counties.
Today, the tide has turned in favor of US. History teaches that anything is possible and the wheel turns. But, I wouldn't want the wheel to turn a lot because that would cause an power struggle to fill the vaccum, and in any case today, the US is doing a "ok" job of protecting the world, though very limited and largely based on narrow self interests.
Guaporense
Active member
That depends on the conditions. Do you mean, if a country A and the US would put everything they had in a single military campaign?
In that case, only 2 countries could fight the US on equal terms: Russia and China. China has the largest military in the world, on a personnel basis.
In qualitative basis, well, any European country is probably roughly equal to the US. But, of course, doesn't have a fraction of the quantitative power of the US, or Russia or China.
Guaporense
Active member
Warmaking potential
On a long run basis, the US can be defeated (I mean defeated like Germany and France in WW2: occupied) by China. Why? There are two basic determinants in the country's military potential, in case of total war:
1- Industrial capacity. Or capacity to produce weapons, equipment and ammunition.
2- Population fit for military service.
Let's compare the US with China:
1- Industrial capacity:
Comparison of manufacturing production in 2008 (billions of US dollars):
US ----- 1,831
China -- 1,399
source: http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2009/10/13/data-on-the-largest-manufacturing-countries-in-2008/
As you can see, China has 76,4% of the US manufacturing production. Since China's economy has be growing like crazy, they will certainly surpass the US in the next 5 years. By 2020 I predict (based on 10% annual growth for China and 2% for the US) that China's and US's manufacturing production will be:
US ----- 2,322
China --- 4,390
So, if China's go to war with the US in 10 years, they would have material superiority against the Yankees.
2- Population fit for the military (2008 estimate):
US ------ 118,6 millions
China --- 823,3 millions
So, I think that they would have vast numerical superiority and material superiority fighting the US. Result: The US is occupied.
On a long run basis, the US can be defeated (I mean defeated like Germany and France in WW2: occupied) by China. Why? There are two basic determinants in the country's military potential, in case of total war:
1- Industrial capacity. Or capacity to produce weapons, equipment and ammunition.
2- Population fit for military service.
Let's compare the US with China:
1- Industrial capacity:
Comparison of manufacturing production in 2008 (billions of US dollars):
US ----- 1,831
China -- 1,399
source: http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2009/10/13/data-on-the-largest-manufacturing-countries-in-2008/
As you can see, China has 76,4% of the US manufacturing production. Since China's economy has be growing like crazy, they will certainly surpass the US in the next 5 years. By 2020 I predict (based on 10% annual growth for China and 2% for the US) that China's and US's manufacturing production will be:
US ----- 2,322
China --- 4,390
So, if China's go to war with the US in 10 years, they would have material superiority against the Yankees.
2- Population fit for the military (2008 estimate):
US ------ 118,6 millions
China --- 823,3 millions
So, I think that they would have vast numerical superiority and material superiority fighting the US. Result: The US is occupied.
Guaporense
Active member
Yes, it was impossible in the 20's to invade the US. However, we are not in the 20's anymore:
Modern technology solves logistical problems more easily than a century ago. Actually, the main problem in invading the US would be maintaining air superiority to protect the logistical fleet.
Supostat
Active member
Well, I'm afraid US won't allow for themselves to get in long-lasting war with China, mainly because US military technology provides a certain superiority (number of planes, quality of planes, and the same with long-range missiles - so the US literally can attack China almost without getting returned fire. Maybe after 5-10 years something could change, but not yet.
Chukpike
Banned
In ten years we will be back in the "20's". it would take China a lot longer than that to create the logistical force to attack the US.
China and India overtime could well become world "super powers" but I think both are more interested in accomplishing this economically. Both countries immediate concerns are in or near their own geographical areas.
"Modern technology solves logistical problems more easily than a century ago."
Not accurate in describing the logistics force required to invade a country the size of the US. What modern technology will be used to build a fleet of ships to support this invasion?
Oh, how backward of me. China will just beam every thing over in their transporters.:lol:
Not if the government has anything to do with it
Seriously, though, we can be invaded, the govt overthrown, the military totally destroyed, and someday no longer be a superpower (who really cares) but as long as ONE American still believes, the United States will NOT be gone.
Its NOT the military of the U.S. people have to worry about, its the 2nd amendment that gives people like ME the right to keep and bear arms. And believe me when I say I'm not alone.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
RayManKiller3
Active member
I completely agree! Anyone who think USA can be invaded by any country at anytime soon is fooling themselves. Think about all these factors:
US has tech advantage
US has numbers
US has quality
China has numbers but nothing else and have no navy capable of handling the US or sending troops into a spot in a quick time.
Preemptive strike makes a good deal difference, if someone was to attack US it would have to do it quick and fierce without being spotted.
Don't forget satellite warfare will occur, which it is said US and Europe are the only ones with the greatest sat's and US can attack LEO and GEO Satellites.
Also, anyone who says a European country can go one on one with US is also fooling themselves. An invasion of the US is completely silly, as the US navy is bigger or close to as big as the whole world's combined. If they try going through Mexico, you think US won't do a preemptive strike? If US see its land in danger it WILL go through and attack any nation helping or Keeping the enemy (Afghanistan is an example).
The air force and Navy alone can defeat a country if its a conventional war and they don't use civilians as shields. It has always been a well known fact that the US boast the strongest Air force and Navy which are crucial for power projection and maintaining the force.
After all that, IF the country can get through that, it will face not one hundred, but two to even three hundred MILLION well armed civilians. If the country seen the threat of invasions heighten, you will also see the number of weapons being sold will heighten. You will barely see an American who will allow an invader into the country without giving all they got.
Gun clubs will become Freedom fighters and such ROFL!
Chukpike
Banned
You figure that out all by yourself, or did your mom help?:lol:
RayManKiller3
Active member
You are going a little insane with how you think things will go. 50 carriers per year? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Each carrier will cost 4 billion if its a super carrier not to mention it takes 10 years or a little more or a little less to make ONE single super carrier! That is already the amount China has in its treasury and twice the amount they spend on military every year. which is 200 billion! No Country in this earth can churn those up! You obviously are not putting economy into the equation.
What about the 70 planes that is going to be on each of the carriers? If you don't have significant planes to go on the ships, it is a total waste of money!
What about the cost its going to be to make transport ships in quantity of getting to US.
What about the freaking cost of the troops? 50 million? That more than 1 billion assuming they are being paid right every single year just for troops!
What about maintenance of these stuff?
Everything you stated in this post and the one before it takes YEARS to do! It is not pop up churn out a lot of stuff. US was able to churn stuff up like that in 1939-1945 because it profited the country by selling the material to other countries. China doing that gains no profit unless it plans on selling. That would bankrupt them, doing all that in such a short time...
Only Pro-US people who hugs onto the military thought of USA as invulnerable. The original thought of invulnerability was that a COUNTRY couldn't invade us which still stands pretty much. Only terrorist or espionage activity at the moment can do any significant damage to the US, something USA has always been aware of. 9/11 woke US to how much of a threat terrorism is not the fact that it thought it was immune to it. The US have has terrorist acts being committed before 9/11, so the sense that US feel invulnerable like you say is quite silly.
Korean Seaboy
Active member
Nobody thought that the great Roman Empire would fall in the ancient times. Nobody thought that the empire of the Mongols would fall either. Not to metion Napoleon's, Hitler's and Alexander's empires. Sure, the US survived for a long time, but history proves that every nation has its ups and downs
Korean Seaboy
Active member
Also, despite the logistical and other kinds of problems, there will be an invasion. Just not yet. But probably in the near future by some nation or alliance. Maybe the Chinese, Russians, Indians, or all of them. Just said it may happen.
Korean Seaboy
Active member
Also who knows what will happen in the future?