Georgia "Invaded" By Russian Forces

NATO is currently little more credible than the UN it seems to me. Few of the NATO allies back us when stuff gets hairy. Last I recall, it was pretty much just us and maybe the UK in the initial invasion of Iraq.

Seems to me also, Putin's strategy is very Judo-ish here. Ju=Gentle, Do=Way. I would say this wa s aperfect thing for him to do to get his military used to military action again. It had been awhile since they were in a combat theater. Having a bunch of green troops is not good, so at least he's getting his people some good combat experience. I am sure that was one of his reasons that he may not talk about in public. Plus, I am also sure he was embarrassed for his countires A-stan performance and wanted to get his commanders some confidence in leading a combat mission.
 
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Yes, the war in Iraq negatively effected NATO's credibility. It was wrong, just wrong. But really, I guess one could argue that NATO has way outlived its initial purpose anyway. :???:
 
Lunatik said:
I can definitely see the Russian point of view here, and God knows, if I was Russian, I'd find our actions 100% right and justified. But I am not, and I can look at this from an even handed, objective perspective. Let's not even begin to compare Kosovo to Georgia, that'd be a gross of a simplification, it's apples and oranges.
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1) No, I am not Russian and do not possess their point of view. Further I'll explain why.
2) I'm not sure your point if view (which reduces to `Russia is guilty`) is objective - because Georgian side also isn't innocent, they did enough to start the conflict.
Lunatik said:
Russia basically invited the Georgian offensive by giving the people that live in Ossetia Russian citizenships. How would you like it if America gave all the people living in Novosibirsk American passports and then claimed the city for itself? Russia is a thief, and a shameless as well as opportunist one. It took advantage of the small size and weakness (both military and diplomatic) of the Georgian state. It attacked on the day of the olympic games when all the world's leaders were in Beijing and couldn't react on time. It attacked using excessive force and killed and wounded many innocent civilians and forced them (around 100,000 of them) to escape south. It attacked deep into Georgian territory, far from Ossetia! It bombed irrelevant pipelines, airports (in Tblisi?) threatened a democratically elected president just because he's pro-West! It shamelessly invaded Abkhazia even though they had nothing to do with Ossetia. It sank a Georgian boat in Georgian waters...

Sorry but Russia is the guiltier side here by a long margin and almost everyone, with the exception of Russians themselves, acknowledge that fact.
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First question is: why Georgia didn't give its citizenship to Ossetian people, or why Ossetian people chose a Russian citizenship?

Second question: are you sure that Russians did the first strike? As I know, the war started because of Georgian arty strikes and ground forces assault to Tskhvinvali. The following events was Russian answer (yes, I will agree with you that answer was too hard and too deep).

Concluding - I see both sides guilty and not innocent. Reaction of West is more political than objective and just as well. Since they condemn only Russian acts, not both.
 
I have heard this too, a little about Georgia's initial small scale military action. What are the details on that and why did they do it? I am sure Russia just used this as an excuse though. At the same time, perhaps Georgia was overconfident on our backing of them and perhaps they underestimated what Russia would or was capable of doing.
 
AikiRooster said:
I have heard this too, a little about Georgia's initial small scale military action. What are the details on that and why did they do it? I am sure Russia just used this as an excuse though. At the same time, perhaps Georgia was overconfident on our backing of them and perhaps they underestimated what Russia would or was capable of doing.
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it wasn't a small scale action on Gergian part.
It was a full scale invasion. With a lot of civilian casualties.
If they have managed to capture the Rocki Pass with it's tunnel, it will be over for the Ossethians.
however, they have managed to resist until the Russians have come.

On the other hand, the whole history of this problem makes Russia guilty by playing both hands and contributing to the deepening of the divide between the to peoples.
On one hand, they were playing a lip service to the Georgian sovereignity over these territories. On the other, they have, virtually, annexed these territories.
so the Georgians were encouraged to continue their efforts to unite their country and the Ossethians were encouraged to cling closer to the Russians in fear that this unification might take place

And the Georgians have decided to make a desperate effort to break the impass. It has failed and now they face the music.
 
AikiRooster said:
I have heard this too, a little about Georgia's initial small scale military action. What are the details on that and why did they do it?
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Georgians wanted to overtake control over Tskhinvali excused it with separatists from vicinity of Tskhinvali attacking some Georgian villages. Ossetian side denies such attacks, so nobody knows is this excuse credible. After that Georgians launched arty strikes and ground forces attack to Tskhinvali.
AikiRooster said:
I am sure Russia just used this as an excuse though.
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Agree, but Georgians were stupid enough to give them such chance...
 
Supostat said:
Georgians wanted to overtake control over Tskhinvali excused it with separatists from vicinity of Tskhinvali attacking some Georgian villages. Ossetian side denies such attacks, so nobody knows is this excuse credible. After that Georgians launched arty strikes and ground forces attack to Tskhinvali.

Agree, but Georgians were stupid enough to give them such chance...
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I just need to add to your post that the capital of South Ossethia is pretty close to the Georgia's proper and there are several georgian villages surrounding it.
It is, kind of, complicated to manage the security of such villages in the ossethian-dominated area, so there was a tri-party peacekeeping force, consisting of 1 russian, 1 georgian and 1 ossethian batallions.
The georgians were guarding the georgian villages, the ossethians - theirs and the russians were overseening the whole situation.
On the other hand, it was giving a lot of opportunities to start shootings and skirmishes between these villages and between the georgian villages and Tshinvali.
The Georgians have used one of these shootings as a pretext to start the invasion
 
Very frustrating, I wanna say let's help Georgia of course, don't like bullies. However, I can see how the argument could also be legit that they brought this on themselves.
 
All I know about the whole thing is I found my old United Nations computer game ( Harpoon 97) just in case :)

GOD I miss the cold war.
If another one starts up can this old man play again? I still got some fight left in me somewhere :)
 
AikiRooster said:
Very frustrating, I wanna say let's help Georgia of course, don't like bullies. However, I can see how the argument could also be legit that they brought this on themselves.
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That's right!

The Georgians were trying to be the masters to other peoples the same way as the Russians were trying to lord over them
 
My point was from the Soviet oops Russian point of view they are completely justified trying to stop ethnic cleansing on their boarder we may not see it that way.
 
I am not so sure on anything on this matter to be able to say they are completely justified to do anything, them or the Georgians. Just because something is reported by the news doesn't make it so or at least what is reported may not be done so in depth enough to come to a half educated conclusion.
 
Good point Aiki... It'd be nice to have the whole story about the Georgian military offensive before accusing the Russians of being completely in the wrong and simply invading another country for s***s and giggles. But one thing I think we ALL can agree on is that the Russian response, if indeed a response, was a TAD bit harsh. No?
 
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