Thoughts on the Russo-Ukranian War?

MontyB said:
nations who were occupied by Russia are doing everything they can to ensure Russia doesn't come back, they are running towards the EU and NATO as soon as they could.

As far as avoiding provocation and negotiating goes, Russia invaded a country, changed its reason for invading every 5 minutes and then annexed territory it doesn't own while stating it is at war with the west and intends to carry on into western Europe, if that isn't provocation then I don't know what is and don't believe you can or should negotiate with that.
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NATO/EU expanded because of fear of expansion by the Russians by the former occupied countries & the Russians have proved them right.
 
George said:
NATO/EU expanded because of fear of expansion by the Russians by the former occupied countries & the Russians have proved them right.
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I think this guy articulates it well.

I am amazed at what some of the smaller European nations have managed with or without the support of their governments.

www.bbc.com

After their PM halts Ukraine aid, Slovaks dig deep to help

A crowdfunding campaign to buy artillery shells for Ukraine quickly exceeds its target of €1m (£850m).
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
The Ukrainian army screwed up when they should rotate military units and provided the Russian with a breach in their defense lines
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
The Ukrainian army screwed up when they should rotate military units and provided the Russian with a breach in their defense lines
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Yes I read that the unit being rotated in didn't arrive although I am a little surprised such an experienced unit withdrew without waiting for the relieving force to be in place.
 
MontyB said:
Yes I read that the unit being rotated in didn't arrive although I am a little surprised such an experienced unit withdrew without waiting for the relieving force to be in place.
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The Ukrainians must have done the rotation several times during this war. I'm thinking it can be treason
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
The Ukrainians must have done the rotation several times during this war. I'm thinking it can be treason
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I may be wrong here but I lean toward this being the fault of the withdrawing unit as they I assume should have stayed in position until relieved.

Given the unit involved and their experience and performance to date I struggle to believe they chose that moment to expose themselves to treason allegations but at the same time it seems an unusually amateurish mistake for such a unit.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
It is strange, it is probably not treason, they just run away when the Russians began to hit them with artillery fire
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I didn't hear that one, the story I got was similar to this one...

www.forbes.com

A Ukrainian Brigade Disappeared, And A Russian Brigade Almost Broke Through: How The Battle For Ocheretyne Upended The War In Ukraine This Weekend

The 47th Mechanized Brigade is one of the Ukrainian army’s best brigades. But being best isn't good enough when adjacent brigades just disappear from the front line.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Although I was under the impression that it was the 100th mechanised brigade (which is a National Guard unit that has been upgraded but still lacks its vehicle component) that had to assist the 47th in plugging the gap they left, I still believe the mistake was the 47th for leaving positions without the replacement unit being in place, I accept they are tired but there is a procedure to follow.
 
MontyB said:
I didn't hear that one, the story I got was similar to this one...

www.forbes.com

A Ukrainian Brigade Disappeared, And A Russian Brigade Almost Broke Through: How The Battle For Ocheretyne Upended The War In Ukraine This Weekend

The 47th Mechanized Brigade is one of the Ukrainian army’s best brigades. But being best isn't good enough when adjacent brigades just disappear from the front line.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Although I was under the impression that it was the 100th mechanised brigade (which is a National Guard unit that has been upgraded but still lacks its vehicle component) that had to assist the 47th in plugging the gap they left, I still believe the mistake was the 47th for leaving positions without the replacement unit being in place, I accept they are tired but there is a procedure to follow.
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But it doesn't make any sense. An an experienced unit like that must wait for the replacement unit before they leave. Brief the new unit and then leave.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
But it doesn't make any sense. An an experienced unit like that must wait for the replacement unit before they leave. Brief the new unit and then leave.
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Yeah I don't know what to make of it, my suspicion is that there is a key element to this story that we are missing.
 
Battle of Chicamauga a Union outfit was ordered out of line, no replacement (orders confusion, I think) & Longstreet just happened to attack en mass right where they pulled out. It happens.
 
George said:
Battle of Chicamauga a Union outfit was ordered out of line, no replacement (orders confusion, I think) & Longstreet just happened to attack en mass right where they pulled out. It happens.
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I can see how this can happen given the communications systems of the 1860s but in the modern world I find it hard to believe.
 
It seems the Russians have opened a new front in the north. It can be the beginning of a new offensive. The Ukrainians have received some of the new deliveries of weapons from the US
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
It seems the Russians have opened a new front in the north. It can be the beginning of a new offensive. The Ukrainians have received some of the new deliveries of weapons from the US
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Yeah seems the Russians haven't learned a thing in two years and have gone back to spreading their forces thinly while wasting as much armour as possible.
 
Yes, and the other Nordic countries increase the military aid too. Hungary is trying an opt out of NATO. The Hungarians are already facing problems when other NATO countries intelligence agencies don't provide the Hungarians with information. The next step will be to remove all Hungarian officers from all the staffs
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
Yes, and the other Nordic countries increase the military aid too. Hungary is trying an opt out of NATO. The Hungarians are already facing problems when other NATO countries intelligence agencies don't provide the Hungarians with information. The next step will be to remove all Hungarian officers from all the staffs
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I have read some reports that Hungarian officers have been asked to leave meetings during sensitive discussions so I am guessing they are on the way out, although I suspect they are hoping for a Trump victory to move things in their favour.
It may have been a bad option to have extended the JAS contract with them as they could be flying for the CSTO soon.

There also appears to be a number of bilateral defence agreements being done (I think I saw 11 NATO countries) to help fund Ukraine for the next 4-10 years to reduce Trump's impact and a possible US withdrawal from NATO.
 
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I actually don't think the US withdraws from NATO even if Trump is reelected. The US might be less active in NATO, but not leaving it. But I agree with what many US officials have said during the years. Other NATO countries must step up and do their bit for the collective defense.

NATO countries are now allowing the Ukraine to hit targets within Russia, it took them awhile to do it.

Hungary may leaves NATO, but Hungary needs EU much more than EU needs Hungary so it would be harder for Hungary exit EU
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
I actually don't think the US withdraws from NATO even if Trump is reelected. The US might be less active in NATO, but not leaving it. But I agree with what many US officials have said during the years. Other NATO countries must step up and do their bit for the collective defense.

NATO countries are now allowing the Ukraine to hit targets within Russia, it took them awhile to do it.

Hungary may leaves NATO, but Hungary needs EU much more than EU needs Hungary so it would be harder for Hungary exit EU
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Personally I think it would be safer for NATO countries to suspend both the US and Hungarian involvement in NATO while Trump and Orban were in office as both of them are clearly in Putin's pocket and cant be trusted with with Western defence information.

I agree that Europe and the world in general need to reduce their reliance on the US for defence but I don't think anyone foresaw a cult taking over the America.
 
MontyB said:
Personally I think it would be safer for NATO countries to suspend both the US and Hungarian involvement in NATO while Trump and Orban were in office as both of them are clearly in Putin's pocket and cant be trusted with with Western defence information.

I agree that Europe and the world in general need to reduce their reliance on the US for defence but I don't think anyone foresaw a cult taking over the America.
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I am still amazed by the fact, can't the Americans find two better suited to be running for the president, or at least two younger ones. But the European NATO countries are stepping up and increase their defense
 
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