In my eyes Cassilas is a flycatcher- he was never able to really catch the ball... Kahn managed to grap it while flying over some ground... that's most uncommon for many keepers.
Well, every year since season 2003/4, he was the GK who received the least goals, and he is on the way to win the title this year again.

That he doesn't get many goals doesn't have to be his doing ;)... there's always a defense ^^

Which is sooooo true... (for the Germans: Old Kreisliga Amateur goalie talking here, my bet is you never heard of the club: Fußball-und Kulturclub Vorsicht Treffer, Neu-Isenburg):

All these discussions about best or worse goalies often do not take into account that as GK you are the boss of the defense, and that you have to train them to present you with what you can handle according to your abilities (no goalie has them all)... Keeping it clean is team work - and it is like that for all of them GKs.

Still, and again an old goalie talking here, San Iker has something others do not have... probably his style is irritating, but he comes from Handball... (and I do not see the "Fliegenfänger" aspect, ending up with the ball in your hands is *not* a merit as such, keeping your box clean, yes...) Zamorra did it, Maier did it, Stein did it also, you have to judge a goalie in his time (and Kahn, in his time, was one of the best for sure).

Today, nothing better than having Casillas behind you if you have a forward oriented style, a reduced defense (to 3) , and good receptionists that can turn on the spot.

Then, there are other aspects as well: If you play with a guy like Kuffour, that is your limit ("Hey, do *not* pass me the ball!!!! What would I do with it ???"), as those destroyers do not develop to the front ever and do not paint in modern soccer anymore (luckily, for us spectators).

Consequently, Kahn always kicked the ball large instead of giving it to one of his by hand: 60+% of Kahns "Abschlägen" ended in ENY hands (feet, of cause), which is not the way I would like soccer to develop to as it is stone age perception formed by focussing on defense (ball farther away = less danger) and is not played today anymore (see Van der Saar, Valdez, Casillas, Buffon, Czech). For todays "possession" focussed soccer this is not the way to go (and for years that was my main - apart from his debility when touching with the foot - complaint about Oliver Kahn during his career).

Again, I might be wrong, just an opinion...

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Why are not all penalties executed like this?

Due to a recent event (Casillas - incredibly! - on Tuesday killed a penalty shot á la "Panenka" from Casquero, see after 0:28 in this vid - and Pepe is out for 10 matches for 1. Last man foul, 2. Agression, 3. Insulting the ref after expulsion, 4. Re-entering the field after having been expelled to celebrate the last goal... He will be fined tenths of thousands of Euros by the club, wont play anymore this season and is for sale: Anyone with little money can have this crackhead... -)

I had voiced in a discussion that the only sure way to make a penalty (more so if it is really critical to score, and of cause when it is not in the penalty shoot out of a cup - where other laws apply - ) enter is to make it a rehearsed pass as in this classic Cruyff one that I rembered, but some ppl said it was illegal now under UEFA AND FIFA rules.

I did not find anything in the rules posted on the net (or do not understand them sufficiently) , any experts out there?

Comments much appreciated,


P.S.: If you do not know what a "Panenka" is, check this (Panenka shot Chechoslowakia to their only European Champion title beating Sepp Maier with a lob right into the center of the goal - first one in this vid - and has been imitated often since):
I hold to the opinion that pre, say, 1960, goalkeepers were an entirely different breed; they had to be. When you talk of the greatest ever, remember that you are considering only those you have seen.
I hold to the opinion that pre, say, 1960, goalkeepers were an entirely different breed; they had to be. When you talk of the greatest ever, remember that you are considering only those you have seen.

...and all - like in any soccer discussion - in their time.

It is fairly difficult to do the time machine thingy, but if you just subtract Athletism and new systems, player speed and physical fitness, and additionnally are able to intuate what the other rules at that time meant, you can even understand why someone like e.g. Berti Vogts could make a name...

No there is no law in football that says what Cruyff pulled of is illegal.
Some Arsenal guys tried to do it two seasons back or something but they messed it up.
But for statistics sake, it does go down as a missed penalty on the taker's side.
...and all - like in any soccer discussion - in their time.

It is fairly difficult to do the time machine thingy, but if you just subtract Athletism and new systems, player speed and physical fitness, and additionnally are able to intuate what the other rules at that time meant, you can even understand why someone like e.g. Berti Vogts could make a name...


I wasn't pointing to the time-machine syndrome in this case - but that in recent years goalkeepers, in UK certainly, have been protected as never before, and also have particular benefit of subs. They are no longer legally hammered by forwards.
Tomorrow the decisive match here (and for the first time in 15 matches before over the years will it be decisive):

Madrid- Barca!

I have heard it is going to be televised in the whole world, and I can just hope that soccer once shows justice and that the ball does whatever necessary to reward those who treated it so great this whole season... (but, as soccer is usually not just... I fear the worst...)

Here the (satirical) take that we have seen in a program (Crackovia) where actors more or less resembling the actual players/coaches/presidents (in this case of Barca) comment on the situation in the Spanish league (the interesting part starts after 1:45 : In the beginning you can see (gay) coach Guardiola trying to motivate his players with the Goldberg Variatiions of J.S Bach (watch Puyol´s, Iniesta´s and Etoo´s faces, priceless!), then there is a discussion about how "Poems and Literature" are the most important things for a soccer player (to which the players correct: "*Three" things, mister..." - apart form what Etoo mentions: Titties, cars and party - "...Cup, Leauge and Champions!", explainig it by performing the old Queen song with this theme (and leave Guardiola not understanding anything), Prezzie Laporta with the tie around his head equally hilarious:

Cup, League and Champions!

(and we still need some little revenge for the forced "pasillo" of 2008 when the league was already decided at the time of the match and Madrid had made champion... NOTE that I as sportsman and being "Culé" have no probs with playing the Madrid hymn here!):

Barca Hailing The Champions 2008

Now, we shall see, whatever happens, Barca will still be leader after this match with 4 more to go...

Aupa Barca!

Barca Hymn with Spanish Subtitles

Chelsea v. Barcelona upcoming. Any forecasts?:horsie:

Yes, after this game now (and if they whatched it which I am sure of) Chelsea will not even turn up... :smile:

Seriously, I know that after every good game follows a bad one, but if Barca just does half on WED of what they did today, Chelsea is out for sure...

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Great show by Barça. The madrilenos wish they were never born.

Indeed, I went to see the match (just now returned) in a "Merengue" bar (i.e. Madrid Fans Bar) like every year, this time with two youngsters (10 yrs, one "Merengue" and the other one, like myself, "Culé") and I have never seen so many tears of ppl that old in a situation where nobody had died...


A Culé dream come true, and I am not yet out of it (no team ever made 6 goals in the Bernabeu during the time I have been watching soccer, and this is many a years... it for sure is the first time ever Barca scored 6 in the Bernabeu), the stadium applauding to Barca (and for that: "Hats Off!" sincerely to the Madrid fans, Barca fans have never done it in similar situations - to their shame from my POV -).

Of cause, in a situation like this you cannot talk to the Merengues (and probably not for the next 3 days) seriously, all were crying and even a word of consolation would have come over as offensive and arrogant (remember that by declaring yourself Merengue or Culé you make a political statement almost more than a statement about soccer: Madrid was/stands for/is Franco, Barca was/stands for/is The Republic of Inedependant Catalonia), but I really had to finally consolate that 85 yrs old Guardia Civil Major (actually, the bar owner) who burned his 70 yrs old Madrid Club Membership Card and delcared that he had lost faith in the Spanish Nation, I do not know whether I succeeded, seemed everything I and others were saying just was more salt into his wounds...


from my POV soccer for the 2nd time in just 12 month did justice to style, team and coach work this time, and we saw an epic match of the purest and most refined club soccer I have ever had a chance to see:

The 2:6 was well deserved, it could have been 2:10 if it had not been for Casillas (who paraded 2 or 3 goals that were already sung out) or the referee (who did not give 2 clear penalties to Barca)...

Well, now off to bed and trying to not awake from the dream...

Madrid - Barca 2:6

Yeah - what a great win; a historic win I would suggest. I am sure Chelsea and Hiddink will relish a great battle, just as all of us will. I am a Spurs man, but I can't wait for this one. Of course Barcelona are highly rated here, so I hope the beautiful game is the winner, whatever the strategies.

Now a bit more relaxed, some more details on this historic match:

Madrid was - as Raul stated - "inferior but not worse" than Barca (he was referring to their spirit and style). Lucky for them, had they been worse than Barca it would have ended 2:15...

Madrid gave all it had, which is pride, courage, fight (they ran marathons) and with Robben even a bit of glamour and deseqilibrium, but winning against the best team of the globe with those means only is like trying to invade the US with a tug boat and a yacht...

Those neverending triangles formed by Messi, Iniesta and Xavi or Xavi, Etoo and Henry (I like the triangle method Guardiola implemented, a pyramide right from Valdez dwn to the goal) were never ever met by Metzelder, Heinze, Lass and Gago, sometimes Barca would let the ball circulate for 5 min and the Madrileños never had a chance to even touch it - though they tried hard going with up to three at each Barca ball bearer - , waiting patiently for the gap and then execute brilliance in a way that it actually looked really easy.

It was no surprise, really, what happened at the Bernabeu, it was simply - soccer...

Brilliance vs. Impotence, and the end of a lie.

Chelsea beware!

Barcelona has made statistical history for the Spanish League now in various aspects and is aiming for more: Goals scored 100 after day 34, Goal difference +72, 85 points after day 34 (and four more to go), 22 wins in a row (totals: Wins 27, Draws 4, Lost 3). Beat Cruyffs "Dream Team" in all respects apart from not having won one title yet (fingers crossed).

Match summary in English:

Goals: 1-0, m.14: Higuaín. 1-1, m.17: Henry. 1-2, m.20: Puyol. 1-3, m.35: Messi. 2-3 m.55: Sergio Ramos. 2-4, m.58: Henry. 2-5, m.75: Messi. 2-6, m.83: Piqué

Player Ratings (English)

and a vid of the highlights (parades and goals) in HQ:

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Wow that is crazy.
I remember watching Guardiola play and he was a great player. Not many great players go on to be great managers but I guess he's an exception.
13th - you might remember that once, when we were on the subject of UK crowd behaviour, I said that I was often amused by the humour of the Liverpool supporters.

Well, today their team was playing Newcastle, a team of immense support, currently fighting for survival in the Premiership; Newcastle have appointed Alan Shearer , the ex-England striker and Newcastle legend and icon, regular tv soccer pundit for some time, as temporary manager for the last few games of the season, in an effort to inspire the team. Well, he certainly inspires their crowd, who were loyally chanting his name even tho' they were 2-0 down.

Then the Liverpool crowd started singing, with one voice it seemed, 'You should have stayed on the tele' - to the tune of 'Quantaramero.'

He loved that as it happens, and it brought out broad smiles from him for his only highlight of the game.
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Hope you all saw the game Hamburg vs. Manchester City- great soccer we've played! Next up: Werder Bremen!

I reckon you are a HSV fan?:idea: I like 'm but I prefer Sankt Pauli :pirate: . When ever I am in Hamburg I try to get a beer in Altona and buy a sweater/ shirt of SP. Their fans know the meaning of true loyalty. Something you see less and less in the soccer world...