Poland wins name change for Auschwitz death camp

[Englander2]

From a historical point of view, this change of name may be quite important, for Poland was the first country to have concentration camps in Europe. Between the two world wars, thousands of Germans and Jews died in such camps. these should therefore not be confused with those of the Nazis. A book named "Death has a Polish name" was published at the time, but I have been unable to obtain a copy. Perhaps someone online knows where this historical work can be purchased.

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

I agree, and I know it was the Nazi, not modern-day Poland that committed those atrocious crimes.




Hey, hey, hey. Come on now...Germany wasn't the ones who started WWII, it was one man. It wasn't a nation, it was one group of twisted souls. They just said Polish concentration camp because it is in POLAND. Its a location, not the nationality.

Even if it had been the whole nation, present day Germany would still not be "the ones who started 2 world wars".

To me Auschwitz is almost synonymous with Nazi concentration camp. I have never thought of it without thinking Nazi Germany.

Historical note: The working language in concentration camps set up in occupied Poland was Polish.

 

[5.56X45mm]

UNESCO, World Heritage Sites etc these are under the purview of the UN.

Who the hell gave the UN the right to rule over the death camp name in Poland.

Last time I checked, Poland is an independent nation. It can do whatever the hell it wants. Screw the UN and what ever authority they claim they have.

If Poland wants to rename a death camp "Super Happy Childern Summer Camp of Joy" (sarcasm). They should be able to. Once again the UN has taken a power and authority that isn't theirs and try to play boss.

Good that Poland changed the name.

 

[Rob Henderson]

From a historical point of view, this change of name may be quite important, for Poland was the first country to have concentration camps in Europe. Between the two world wars, thousands of Germans and Jews died in such camps. these should therefore not be confused with those of the Nazis. A book named "Death has a Polish name" was published at the time, but I have been unable to obtain a copy. Perhaps someone online knows where this historical work can be purchased.

Try http://amazon.com
they usually have most works.

 

[Ollie Garchy]

There are a few points that need clarification:

Auschwitz is now a Polish and not German city:

1. Auschwitz was a small city or town in Upper Silesia -- a German province. As part of the territorial readjustments after WWI and WWII, eastern Germany was handed over to the Poles. Cities like Breslau, Danzig or Königsberg were changed to Polish or Russian equivalents. The Poles and Russians took official control of all of eastern Germany (including all of the schools, universities, hospitals, jails, sewers, etc.).

2. Many historical curiosities result. But only because the Polish and Russian governments insisted/insist on calling the ceded territories Polish and Russian. The first German universities were therefore founded outside of Germany in Prague (Sudetenland), Breslau (Silesia) and Königsberg (Prussia). Many famous Germans (like Bismark or most of the German officer corps) were Polish or Russian born. Kant lived in the Russian city of Kaliningrad. The examples are endless.

If the Polish government feels it necessary to underline the German nature of Auschwitz, the question is why? Factually, all of western Poland was once Germany. What is the point of instituting selective categories of residual Germanness...and then only with regards to the Holocaust? Why not call Breslau the "Former German City of Breslau"?

The Reason is Political:

1. No other countries have this Polish problem. When the Russian government speaks of German WWII atrocities, such as the mass graves of the Einsatzgruppen, there is no problem with using Russian names. They therefore speak of the 50,000 Jews shot near Kiev and not the 50,000 Jews shot near the German-occupied city of Kiev. Everybody understands the distinction. How about the 10,000 Poles shot by the Russians at Katyn? Same story. The Poles are just showing their continued unease at sitting on thousands of acres of German land.

2. The Polish government does not want to recognize the Polish contribution to the Holocaust. In recent historical works, historians have focused on the willingness of Poles to work alongside the Germans and kill Jews. Spontaneous Polish pogroms --ie. without any German prodding -- erupted after 1939. In view of these facts, it makes sense for Warsaw to try and minimize any link between Poles and the Holocaust. Unless, that is, the country was actually interested in historical truth.

3. The current Polish government is extremely anti-German. Despite the fact that the Germans supported the Polish desire for EU membership, against the opposition of France and the United Kingdom, the current Polish government sees no reason to push for better Polish-German relations. They were in fact elected on an anti-German ticket.

The last point explains the name-change. Nothing more. Nothing less. My original comments were intended to create a parallel with "Prince" or the "Artist Formerly Know as Prince" or whatever. Just stupid stuff. But the current Polish government is stupid. Time for an election, guys.

 

[marslight]

That ranks right up there with the "Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia", or FYROM, as it is being marketed now.

 

[Englander2]

I do not wish to upset the experts on this line, most of you will certainly know more than I do about Weapons, war and millitary affairs. I must however point out that occaisional mistakes are made. It was Britain which had the first conzentration camps, they were set up in South-Africa during the Boer War. It was Poland which had the first concentration camps in Europe, long before anyone had heard of Nazis. In those concentration camps thousands of Jews and Germans lost their lives. To say the Poles did not hate Jews, would not agree with much of the correspondance which passed between Poland and Germany during the years 1937/39. The idea then was to use Madras as the place for a new Israel.

 

[Venom PL]

I think that article will give some info about concentration camps in Poland beetwetn WW and after WWII.

Following the First World War it was erected concentration camps for German civilian population in the areas that became part of Poland, including camps Szczypiorno and Stralkowo. In the camps the inmates were abused and tortured.
After 1926 several other concentration camps were erected, not only for Germans, but also for Ukrainians and other minorities in Poland. It included camps Bereza-Kartuska and Brest-Litowsk. Official casualities for the camps are not known, however it has been estimated that many Ukrainians died.
From the start of 1939 until the German invasion in september a number of more concentration camps for Germans, including Chodzen, were erected. Also German population were subject to mass arrest and violent pogroms, which led to thousands of Germans fleeing. In 1,131 places in Poznan/Posen and Pomerania German civilians were sent into marchs to concentration camps. Infamous is the pogrom against Germans in Bydgoszcz/Bromberg, known to many Germans as Bromberger Blutsonntag.
Following the Second World War the Soviet-installed Stalinist regime in Poland erected 1,255 concentrations camps for German civilians in the eastern parts of Germany that were occupied and annexed by Communist Poland. The inmates were mostly civilians that had not been able to flee the advancing Red Army or had not wanted to leave their homes. Often were entire villages including babies and small children sent to the concentrations camps, the only reason being they spoke German. Some of them were also Polish citizens. Many anticommunists were also sent to concentration camps. The death rate in the camps were between 20 and 50 %. Some of the most infamous concentration camps were Toszek/Tost, Lamsdorf, Potulice, Świętochłowice/Schwientochlowitz. Inmates in the camps were abused, tortured, maltreated, exterminated and deliberately given low food rations and epidemies were created. Some of the best known concentration camp commanders were Lola Potok, Czeslaw Geborski and Salomon Morel. Several of them, including Morel, were Jewish Communists. Morel is currently hiding in Israel, and has been charged for war crimes and crimes against humanity by Poland.
The American Red Cross, the US Senator Langer of North-Dacota, the British embassador Bentinck and the British prime minister Winston Churchill protested against the Polish concentration camps, and demanded that the Communist authorities in Soviet-occupied Poland respected the Geneva Conventions and international law, however internationals protests were ignored by the Communists.
At least between 60,000 and 80,000 German civilians were murdered in the Communist Polish concentration camps.

Summarizing: After WWI (when Poland regain independence) concentration camps where mainly for the communists. After WWII Communist authorities in Soviet-occupied Poland established CC for Germans, anticommunists, etc.

Ollie Garchy wrote

But the current Polish government is stupid. Time for an election, guys.

The government is stupid and president is stupid (Kaczynski) - I really hate this stupid ****er I didn't vote for him...He is not my president. He and his government are doing everything to destroy our good relations with our neighbors (e.g. Germany). But in the next elections they are all going to be kick out of the office. I would like to send all those ****ers to the sun.

 

[Englander2]

I would like to thank Venom PL for his information. At the same time, seeing that nobody has bothered to correct my slip up, Madras and Madagascar are of course miles away from each other, here my apology! It was indeed the later to which Poland wanted to deport her Jews, before WW2 broke out, although another destination would also have been, and was in the end accepted. The main problem for the Poles, with this intention however, was that it was feared the Jews would take their wealth with them when leaving.
On the 13. Dec 1938, Slawoj-Skladkowski agreed to the idea put forward by General Skwacynskis, that it would be easier to get rid of the Jewish population by discriminating against them in such a way that they would leave voluntarily. 116 Polish MPs supported this decision.
In the German newspaper "Berliner Tagblatts" one could read ( 24 Jan 1939), " Germany and other countries are being flooded by Jews pouring out of Poland." Considering the fact that on the 24th of March 1933 the Jewish congress had declared war on Hitler's Germany, and that in Germany itself had passed a large number of laws, which disadvantaged Jews living there, this was of course a very strange situation.
On the 4th of April 1939, Britain and France agreed to help Poland financially in their part of the effort to finally clear up the problem of Jews in Europe. A gift of large sum of Money, plus a credit of 30 Million Pounds Sterling was passed on to Poland, to enable 50.000 Jews a year to emigrate Palestine.
It is the interpretation of facts, not the facts themselves, which often lead to different points of view. In some cases as we now observe in the Middle East, unfortunately also to wars. Therefore, the President of Iran was not so far from the point, when he said "Europe is responsible for the trouble between Arabs and Jews in Palestine."
Considering the facts, as above described, it might even be possible to follow his way of thinking. Nevertheless, it does not answer the question as to why the Jews were regarded as a problem in Europe, in the first place. This probably goes back to the middle ages, during which the Jews were hired by the aristocracy to collect taxes from lower class people.
The USA does not appear to share this dilemma. Quite the opposite, despite the experiences with people such as Johnathan Pollard, who was arrested for spying, it still seems very happy to have Jews in nearly all the key positions.

 

[Ollie Garchy]

1. "Summarizing: After WWI (when Poland regain independence) concentration camps where mainly for the communists. After WWII Communist authorities in Soviet-occupied Poland established CC for Germans, anticommunists, etc".

2. "The government is stupid and president is stupid (Kaczynski) - I really hate this stupid ****er I didn't vote for him...He is not my president. He and his government are doing everything to destroy our good relations with our neighbors (e.g. Germany). But in the next elections they are all going to be kick out of the office. I would like to send all those ****ers to the sun".

1. The problem of Polish atrocities is one receiving more and more attention. What strange times we live in. Here is an interesting article on how average Poles treated Jews: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/books/review/23margolick.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

2. Everyone hates politicians and some are much worse than others. The Kaczynski twins really freak me out. They are certainly not modern Europeans and most certainly not good for Poland. Here is a British article on the boys: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/21/opinion/edpoland.php

In general, the Auschwitz name change reminds me of the old German-Polish relationship...one based on mutual abuse and political crap. It seems that the Germans will probably get stinky until the Kaczynski twins are booted out of office. Oh well, the future will be better.

 

[Englander2]

The few aquaintances I have in Poland tell me, that these two brothers started their political carreers in a beer drinkers party. Having seen the number of drunks in the streets of Silesia recently, that is probably the reason for their success.

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

I do not wish to upset the experts on this line, most of you will certainly know more than I do about Weapons, war and millitary affairs. I must however point out that occaisional mistakes are made. It was Britain which had the first conzentration camps, they were set up in South-Africa during the Boer War. It was Poland which had the first concentration camps in Europe, long before anyone had heard of Nazis. In those concentration camps thousands of Jews and Germans lost their lives. To say the Poles did not hate Jews, would not agree with much of the correspondance which passed between Poland and Germany during the years 1937/39. The idea then was to use Madras as the place for a new Israel.

Madras in India??
Edit: I saw your correction in the later post.

I read somewhere (can't confirm it) that during the early days of the Nazi regime (before the concentration camp business), some Zionists cooperated with them because they found that they had similar interests: The Nazis wanted Jews to leave Germany and the Zionists wanted Jews to enter Palestine.

I think that article will give some info about concentration camps in Poland beetwetn WW and after WWII.



Summarizing: After WWI (when Poland regain independence) concentration camps where mainly for the communists. After WWII Communist authorities in Soviet-occupied Poland established CC for Germans, anticommunists, etc.

Very interesting article Venom. I didn't know about those post WW1 concentration camps at all!

Yeah those Kaczynski twins seem kinda creepy to me. But I guess they do help the disadvantaged rural population?