OCTOBER 1973 WAR (YUM KIPPUR)- AN EGYPTIAN VICTORY

They never said that they couldnt lose battles... But they do win wars.

The Arab armies should stop trying to use numbers without quality...
 
master said:
It was known wide that the isaeli army is the army that cannt be defeated and it was said by all and specially the isaelies themseves . but this quote was put down and denied during the war in 6 hours .
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Every army can be defeated and Israelis despite their provess and courage would have lost if not for US aid, using nukes would kill them as well since the region is so small radiation would f*ck up everyone in Israel.

Its another thing that Arab armies were of notoriously bad quality though.
 
It kind of cracks me up as this is a classic example of air power determining the outcome of wars, for the first few days while the Egyptian forces remained within its planned air defense regions it achieved its goals and held off Israeli counter attacks and as soon as it left that air umbrella it was defeated by Israeli air assets yet here we sit in 2010 and the middle eastern nations have still failed to understand the importance of air power in modern warfare.

The simple rule of thumb is that without control of the air no army moves anywhere and that includes all the "unbeatable" ones such as the USA, Israel etc.
 
Oh, come on, I'm sure they got the message...

With air superiority, you can drop bombs on your enemy and come home to shag the wife safely...

But they dont have the technology to make air superiority platforms. And nobody will sell them these weapons at a good price.

I'm not a weapon expert and even I think that it would be great to drop bombs at an enemy without giving him a chance to retaliate.
 
Bollocks, they have the capacity to do almost anything just look at the wealth that has flowed into the middle east in the last 50 years from oil assets but instead of building a military for national defense most middle eastern countries build military's to maintain power hence they spend money on weapons of strength (tanks, infantry and artillery) and ignore weapons of projection (aircraft and ships).
 
MontyB said:
Bollocks, they have the capacity to do almost anything just look at the wealth that has flowed into the middle east in the last 50 years from oil assets but instead of building a military for national defense most middle eastern countries build military's to maintain power hence they spend money on weapons of strength (tanks, infantry and artillery) and ignore weapons of projection (aircraft and ships).
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Monty come on, these's enough morons on these boards propagating myths lets not have inteligent posters follow them eh? Egypt has 240 fighter aircraft of which 200~ are F-16s.

The countries that can afford it have powerfull airforces, also Israel has an army for maintaining power and it has zip power projection.

The problem of Israel vs Arabs is threefold.

1. Initial efforts by Arabs were weak for various reasons.
2. When Arabs made an effort that would destroy Israel US got involved.
3. Israels military is built on US wallet.

Israel on its own would have a military that'd ceirtanly rise above its Arab counterparts but not outsdandingly, its a good military but the myth of invincibility was aquired due to luck, coincidences and American aid rather then it actually being a hardcore war machine.
 
We are going to disagree on this although not significantly I still think the Egyptian military of today is vastly different to that of 1948-1973 and if you take Egypt and Saudi Arabia out of the mix you have a bunch of states with large armour based ground forces and outdated air forces.
 
MontyB said:
We are going to disagree on this although not significantly I still think the Egyptian military of today is vastly different to that of 1948-1973 and if you take Egypt and Saudi Arabia out of the mix you have a bunch of states with large armour based ground forces and outdated air forces.
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Which states exactly? Syria has 200~ Migs 29s, 25s and 23s which while inferior to F-16s are not too shabby and there's a lot of them too.

Iran has a relatively weak air force but thats mainly due to imports being blocked by US.
 
Don't get me wrong they have vast numbers of aircraft but they are all out of date in terms of technology, the fact that Syria is still flying Mig 23s and 25s is a good example of this.
 
MontyB said:
Don't get me wrong they have vast numbers of aircraft but they are all out of date in terms of technology, the fact that Syria is still flying Mig 23s and 25s is a good example of this.
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Who would see them newer craft? Its not because they want to, its because US wont sell them anything, Russia doesnt have anything and neither do European countries, at least not in quantities desired.
 
I know that Morroco was interested in buying the French Rafale. Cuting edge technology in mater of aircrafts...

But they chose to buy F16 rather than the hightech Rafale. And when you know the cost of the damn thing ,you understand why...

High tech aircrafts cost a lot. And they are just platforms. They need advanced support to work. Sattelites, radars, awacs, high tech missiles etc...

And see how Iran is having troube to buy anti air systems... We dont want to see Arab/Muslim countries with hightech weapons...

They sell them some weapons to allow the regimes to stay in power... But they would never give them the means to wage a serious war.
 
LeMask said:
I know that Morroco was interested in buying the French Rafale. Cuting edge technology in mater of aircrafts...

But they chose to buy F16 rather than the hightech Rafale. And when you know the cost of the damn thing ,you understand why...
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The problem is Rafale is not cutting edge, its modern allright but F-16s get you more for less money and have a greater capacity for upgrades and modernisations.
LeMask said:
High tech aircrafts cost a lot. And they are just platforms. They need advanced support to work. Sattelites, radars, awacs, high tech missiles etc...
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Thats not a problem either, as Le Mask noticed quite a few Arab countries p*ss money every time they go to a toilet, the problem is that the market is limited.

France - Rafale: very expensive for its capabilities.
Sweden - Grippen: has potential but the manufacturing capabilities are limited and its no longer that modern.
Russia - various SU models: good machines but again not top notch.
US - perfect option, truckload of modern and affordable machines but pro-Israeli.
Germany/UK/assorted European countries - Eurofighter, production lines busy till 2015 at least.

As you can see its not the money or Arab countries strategies, its the market thats the problem.
 
Re: OCTOBER 1973 WAR (YUM KIPPUR)- AN EGYPTIAN VICTORY 12

Panzercracker said:
The problem is Rafale is not cutting edge, its modern allright but F-16s get you more for less money and have a greater capacity for upgrades and modernisations.
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I have to disagree with you on this point! For aerodynamics, ECM, manned machine interface (MMI), the new G-suit, low observable, passive detection systems (RF, optical and, IR), etc. the Rafale is first rate. The price is not and evidently the French government is not supporting the fighter with the same sweetheart deals some other countries provide for their aircraft. Maintenance and ground support are also high priced.
While its ECM system is first rate, its radar is not! When it gets an AESA radar is will be first rate in that capability also.
In some engagements it has bested the Typhoon but, rules of engagement (ROEs) were not explained... which make all the difference in scoring.

Panzercracker said:
As you can see its not the money or Arab countries strategies, its the market thats the problem.
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I agree with you 100%, marketing is the main deterrence to buying the Rafale! The plane itself is a winner.
 
Improtant

It is my first reply here at the forum *.... *am wondering from who is talking about sharon vise attack ........ simply israel defeatet and it was a harmfull lose for them in everything ... and he ran by himslef from the egyptian hell ..... :) *just one fact............. we defeat israel *and it was a big lose for them in everything *;)*
 
good joke

EladBell said:
h owner who exicte for 2000 years and the invaderr who excite for only 5500 years right?
go read history your rellgious was formed around 3000 years after the jews were ruling most of the middl east of that time.
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u are talking about history . ;) *thats good also read before ur history whos living inside middle east before anyrelegion come ( kananyon - ashoryen ) peoples ....... smile baby they are arabian ........... u have no right any where and soon or later ur out *;)
 
hagez said:
u are talking about history . ;) *thats good also read before ur history whos living inside middle east before anyrelegion come ( kananyon - ashoryen ) peoples ....... smile baby they are arabian ........... u have no right any where and soon or later ur out *;)
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Well perhaps you should read up on your history then.

17th Century BCE- Jewish People Migrate To Egypt Because of Famine.

13th - 12th Centuries BCE- Jewish people settle in Israel.

722 - 720- Israel captured by Assyrians

586- Israel captured by Babylonia.

And I'll go ahead an skip a thousand years or so.......

Oh here you are.

636-1099- Arab Rule Starts in Israel.


Sorry buddy, I'm just going off the facts that history provides me with.

Tell me why is it such a big deal that we have one country that we have rightfully defended in war countless times now, but you guys can have over 30 of them? Not wanting to start an argument, you brought it up. I'm just wondering.
 
On the topic however, The Yom Kippur war, was only a victory for Egypt politically and some of their strategic objectives were accomplished. However it was an over all tactically decisive victory for Israel.....

'Pulls out map'

Yep still there just checking...lol.
 
Well, if you want to talk about legitimacy... You have to set the rules and the terms of this legitimacy.

You can prove nothing unless you agree first on these terms. Dont play a game without setting the rules. If you dont want to, just start bashing each others like primitive men. And let the man with the bigger stick win.

But if you want to live like civilized men, first, talk to each others, and agree on some definitions, once you find a common ground, then you can state historical facts...

And I think it's not pertinent to say "Arabs have 30 nations, and we have only a few... so we can do what we want." That's not an argument.

Try to use that in something else. We dont see terrorists saying "you have 1000 tanks and we just have rocks and cheap rockets... Give us tanks." Well, we see some people saying that, but we cant understand that...

Now, we have to put racism aside, we all have equal rights, whatever the culture, the skin color, the religion... etc... Every human being have rights.

Some jews were born in the land we call Israel today, they have the right to live there. And nobody can tell us otherwhise.
And it's the same for the Arabs who were born there. It's their land too. They have the right to live in the land of their ancestors... etc... This is how it works...

Now, we have a situation where many people have the right to live in the same place... The problem isnt who have or dont have legitimacy, this is obvious.

The problem is in the cohabitation... They refuse each others...

What we need is an authority, capable of forcing these entities to live with each others... even by Kicking their asses if they dont keep it civil.

But who will do this job? This is the problem, nobody wants to be neutral...

We can solve the conflict very easily... The solution is obvious. But we dont have true people to do that. We are so corrupt, so blinded that we cant do what's obvious...
 
Arabs do and can live in Israel. However the Arabs for the most part don't want to live with the Jews.

Perfect example of why I said I have nothing more to add to this post.
I am not willing to get banned just for expressing my views against people who obviously don't like and approve of the Jewish people's existence. I know I will lose my cool and I am not trying to get ticked off today, as I'm allready starting to.

I am officially out of this topic, no exceptions!
 
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