Iraq resolution passes House

MarineRhodes

If we stay, we have a chance, however small or large, that we can bring some kind of stability to the country.

That's where you are mistaken. There is NO chance, not even a teeny-weeny one. The reason there is no chance is because the Sunni and the Shiite have no interest in living in peace with each other. We cannot make people live in peace if they don't want to. You have a better chance of selling sand to the Saudis then you do of getting these two sides to tolerate each other. The Sunni and Shiite have been killing each other since the 12th century. That's 800 YEARS of hatred. You cannot just switch it off.

There are only 2 things they agree on. 1) The hate us and 2) that they want us out.

The other thing the military says is that the fact we are in Iraq is HELPING al-Qaeda.

As to your question what happens if we withdraw? Simply put, Iraq will become a bloodbath. But thats inevitable. What people here don't understand is that these people are religious fanatics, they WANT to kill each other.

The only choice is whether we keep sacrificing our forces for the inevitable or not.
 
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Marinerhodes, question here to illuminate our french friend with the white flag... do you talk to people who have been in Iraq? How many people would that be? Is there a general concensus among that group of people who have had boots on the ground? What might that be kind sir?

MMMMMMMMMMMMarsh,
"people "here" dont understand". Where is HERE? Paris? The US? This forum?

As for your claim that they hate us... who is THEY? The terrorists? Al Qaeda? Iraqis? Sunnis? Kurds?

And last I'd like a source for that last claim that the US military says being in Iraq is helping Al Queso.
 
Bulldogg

1. People as those in the minority that want to wish to continue this disaster. This is in opposite to the majority of Americans who want us out.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWOrWyYU2Tj0&refer=home

Maybe that 53% is defeatist too? Or maybe they are like me who are just sick of this never-ending foreign policy DISASTER, and the never-ending bunch of excuses of why it must continue which never amount to anything. For example, Excuse 1 WMDs (a lie). Excuse 2, Saddam-al Qaeda links (another lie). Excuse 3, Secure Iraq freedom (a smokescreen to cover up Excuses 1 and 2).

3000+ Dead, Another 20000+ wounded, Almost a $1 Trillion wasted, AND FOR WHAT? What can we possibly gain from this situation?

2. All of the above except the Kurds. But the most important groups are the Shiites and the Sunnis. The Shiites rather listen to Iran than us, and the Sunnis are furious we took out Saddam.

3/4 of Iraqis according to this 2006 want us out

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721_pf.html

I just saw a shocking interview on the BBC yesterday. It was a story of the training of the Iraqi police forces. The journalists interviewed several people waiting to join the Iraqi police force who actually said the Americans were occupiers and that the insurgents were right to resist us. -And this from the guys are supposed to be on out side remember?

3. Here you go

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/02/dnalqaida070215/

and here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3746205.stm

and

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20041226/ai_n12573978


From the Sunday Herald, September 21, 2004.

First paragraph...

THE Pentagon has admitted that the war on terror and the invasion and occupation of Iraq have increased support for al-Qaeda, made ordinary Muslims hate the US and caused a global backlash against America because of the "self-serving hypocrisy" of George W Bush's administration over the Middle East.


This war is about the money and pride of a select few in Washington. It is contrary to American security or interest, so I have no problem walking away from it.
 
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bulldogg said:
Still didn't answer where HERE is.
Click to expand...

Yes I did, reread, #1. I was referring to those who think the madness should continue.

But you didn't answer my question about, what you would propose instead? Its been 4 years and the current plan isn't working. That much is obvious

Whats your idea?
 
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I agree with mmarsh completely. The invasion of Iraq is an example of how stupid politicians can be. There was no reason to go there (and DO NOT give me that "fight them there instead of here" BS cuz Saddam had his country tango-free), and no reason to be there now. Maybe Iran was worthy of being crushed, but Iraq? Utterly pointless.

I do not believe it is possible to wage war against a concept known as terrorism. More and more will run to take the place of those that die, and invading a country to try and stop terrorism is like trying to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer. The insurgency will persist as long as America occupies Iraq, even after our troops have mowed down waves of enemies.

I say we leave and let our enemies kill each other in our absence.
 
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major liability said:
I agree with mmarsh completely. The invasion of Iraq is an example of how stupid politicians can be. There was no reason to go there (and DO NOT give me that "fight them there instead of here" BS cuz Saddam had his country tango-free), and no reason to be there now. Maybe Iran was worthy of being crushed, but Iraq? Utterly pointless.

I do not believe it is possible to wage war against a concept known as terrorism. More and more will run to take the place of those that die, and invading a country to try and stop terrorism is like trying to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer. The insurgency will persist as long as America occupies Iraq, even after our troops have mowed down waves of enemies.

I say we leave and let our enemies kill each other in our absence.
Click to expand...

Your argument is a good one for 2003 but unfortunately pandora's box has been opened if you pull out of Iraq without completing the job now you will be fighting them at home in a year or so.
 
MontyB said:
Your argument is a good one for 2003 but unfortunately pandora's box has been opened if you pull out of Iraq without completing the job now you will be fighting them at home in a year or so.
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I don't think so. Remember this is a RELIGOUS war, and both sides view the other as heretics. The Sunni and Shiite will start killing each other before they venture abroad.

And besides it far better we fight them at home. We fight them here in America the terrorists lose the local support, their financial support, their supply lines from Syria and Iran and the fact they are under constant surveillance. -In short we remove their home field advantage. If the terrorists came here they would very quickly caught or killed.

Its always better to fight on your territory than someone else's.
 
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mmarsh said:
I don't think so. Remember this is a RELIGOUS war, and both sides view the other as heretics. The Sunni and Shiite will start killing each other before they venture abroad.

And besides it far better we fight them at home. We fight them here in America the terrorists lose the local support, their financial support, their supply lines from Syria and Iran and the fact they are under constant surveillance. -In short we remove their home field advantage. If the terrorists came here they would very quickly caught or killed.

Its always better to fight on your territory than someone else's.
Click to expand...

You are seemingly unconcerned with the possibility that many American citizens would likely die or be hurt yet you proffess to be a patriotic soul. You have stated time and again you are American and yet you are willing to allow foreign nationals come to American soil to wage war? So, how is France at this time of year?

I believe the correct turn of phrase is "It's always better to fight on your own terms than someone else's"

You just made 90% of the point for me. They are waging a religious war against the US and themselves. After the religious "cleansing" takes place, what then? Another WTC type disaster? Perhaps they will come to France and fly a plane into the Eiffel Tower, or perhaps the Popes' Palace in Avignon? Don't think it is just Americans they are mad at. They are mad at anyone that is not of their faith.

If the US pulls we will be considered at fault for the continuing unrest in the Mid-East. Anyone not following the faith will still be persecuted. People will still be killed, only I think it will escalate to an epic scale without the US to "keep the lid on things" as it were.


We have had discussions over the Koran/Qoran/Qu'ran etc before. I submit this to show you how irrelevant it is to their religious doctrine if the US leaves or stays, they will still come after anyone who does not follow the correct faith (same verse interpreted 3 times):

002.062
YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL: Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
SHAKIR: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
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later it goes on to say:

008.039YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
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One more tidbit:

008.061YUSUFALI: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
PICKTHAL: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Click to expand...

But somewhere in the Koran it starts saying that anyone not believing or following the laws of the Koran should be killed without pity or remorse.

With that kind of instruction, how can you believe, for even one second, that the religious persecution will not overflow into the international community with a vengeance with no one there to distract them or shut them down?

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html#008.039
 
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Years ago is was said that if Vietnam falls to the Communists that the domino effect would lead to other nations in the area going Communist, which in turn would cause more nations in the region going Communist, which would cause more, and more, nations Worldwide going Communist.

The United States of America lost the Vietnam War, South Vietnam went to the Communists, and the domino effect did not happen.... strangely enough.

Is Iraq being "Free" by Americas standards worth some 300 Million American lives?
If you answer no then Iraq being "Free" by Americas standards is not worth one American life, and all who have died in Iraq already have already died in vain, and all who will die in Iraq will die in vain.

If Iraq truly be the War of importance that some subscribe to then the US Military would not be short of Troops (as is the case today) as the US Military would no doubt have close to 10 times the current number of Troops under Arms.
Rationing would be imposed by the Federal Government, and there would be a War Tax, instead of Tax Cuts, tax cuts which strangely enough are the order of the day.
 
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Marinerhodes said:
You are seemingly unconcerned with the possibility that many American citizens would likely die or be hurt yet you proffess to be a patriotic soul. You have stated time and again you are American and yet you are willing to allow foreign nationals come to American soil to wage war? So, how is France at this time of year?

Americans civilians are at far greater risk about being killed abroad than they are at home. I should know because even here in France (a Western Christian country), the US consulate and embassy has urged us to be very careful. There has already been one attempt to kill Americans in Paris.

And for your information, the French have been using this tactic with great success for the past 15 years. Instead of fighting the terrorists in Algeria and North Africa the way they used to (see Algerian War). They instead concentrated on internal security, catching them as they tried to operate in France. They just caught another group of al-Qaeda operatives yesterday. And there hasn't been a single attack since the mid-1990s. There has Been lots of arrests and deportations to Algeria (torture is legal there). There are at least 70 extremists that have simply vanished over the years. (and I don't mean botched secret kidnappings like the CIA does, but more like the Italian mafia's style of 'sleeps with the fishes' type of disappearance). They were simply never heard from again.

Contrary to what you migh think. They don't f*** around here. They are dead serious when it comes to counter-terrorism.

The French and the Isrealis are far better at counter-terrorism than we are, thats a fact. They both have been fighting Islamic extremists far longer than we have.

Did you know that after the July 7 London bombings, the British Security forces copied the French system of counter terrorism. For some strange reason they decided not to use color-coded American one that was designed to scare civilians rather than catch terrorists.

As for your personal attacks...YAWWNN. Its pathetic, and it only shows the weakness of your argument. I don't need to resort to such lame trash talking to prove you wrong.
You just made 90% of the point for me. They are waging a religious war against the US and themselves. After the religious "cleansing" takes place, what then? Another WTC type disaster? Perhaps they will come to France and fly a plane into the Eiffel Tower, or perhaps the Popes' Palace in Avignon? Don't think it is just Americans they are mad at. They are mad at anyone that is not of their faith.

Not really. 9-11 happened because the terrorists had the benefit of surprise and because President goof-ball's advisors in Washington DC ignored the several warnings about an immient attack. Thats unlikely to happen now, if you have flown on a airliner recently, they wont even let you on a plane with a nail clipper. I think al-Qaeda has given up the airliner as a bomb trick, at least for now. That trick only works once.

And for your information, the terrorists already tried to crash a airplane into the Effel Tower in 1994. They failed because the authorities were able to trick the terrorists into landing on French soil. Once that happened, RAID (French Delta Force) killed them all. So a big thank you for the perfect illustration of why its better to fight them at home.

The religious cleansing will never stop. As soon as the US leaves, Iran and Syria will back the Shiites and the Saudis will back the Sunni. It will go on for decades. Thats just the point, there won't be anyone left to come to our shores.

If the US pulls we will be considered at fault for the continuing unrest in the Mid-East. Anyone not following the faith will still be persecuted. People will still be killed, only I think it will escalate to an epic scale without the US to "keep the lid on things" as it were.

Sorry to tell you this, but its FAR too late for that. That ship set sail A LOOOONG time ago. The USA has already been blamed and will be blamed no matter what happens. Its our own fault, we opened Pandora's Box.

We have had discussions over the Koran/Qoran/Qu'ran etc before. I submit this to show you how irrelevant it is to their religious doctrine if the US leaves or stays, they will still come after anyone who does not follow the correct faith (same verse interpreted 3 times):

This is just common sense. Which enemy are the Religious extremists more likely to attack first? The enemy that lives 5000 miles away or the enemy that lives right next door? And while we mention it Europe is much closer to Iraq than the USA. So I don't think you've got much to worry.

Secondly, not all the insurgents are fanatics. Some are simply nationalists or ex-Baathists who consider themselves as resisting an occupation of their country. Once we are gone, they will have no interest in fighting us.

Lastly. You have no concept of the HATRED the Sunni and the Shiite extremists have for one another. This hatred has been burning for 8 centuries. They hate each other FAR MORE than they hate us. They will set the Middle East on fire, but they will leave the rest of the world alone just to have a go at each other.

I say let them.
Click to expand...
 
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Your arrogance is matched only by your ignorance. Marines are on the ground in Iraq and have seen, heard, smelt and felt the hatred Sunni and Shia have. I would daresay they know a helluva lot more than you do sitting in Paris killing people slowly with your choice of profession and product of your employer. As for letting the terrorists bring the fight to US soil, you are a traitor, nothing less. How could you with a functioning conscience advocate the victimization of your family and other civilians in the land whose citizenship you claim?? Yes I understand this is the French idea and we have seen how wonderfully it is playing out for them, no thanks. I cannot fathom how anyone would ever be able to sleep at night advocating that we allow the train bombing of Madrid to occur in Chicago, the London subway bombing in New York, etc. Sorry but I could never even advocate such suffering on the people of even my wonderful host country. Its inhumane and defies logic. The phrase is to fight your enemy on YOUR OWN TERMS... not territory. Look at what has happened in Russia during WWII for an example of why this is soooooooo wrong.

This is not a personal attack MMarsh but rather a very subdued observation and you are free to take it however you like. You may have a US Passport and have US Citizenship but you are not American. We dont let people attack us, we take the fight to them.
 
Like BD said, it works for the French. It won't work on American soil. Why is that you ask?

Think of all the BS politicians and activist groups out there screaming about civil liberties and freedoms taken away, privacy being invaded etc. Now take it up one notch so that the US can actually monitor and observe people and things. Contrary to what seems to me to be popular opinion, the US government does not keep tabs on every single person that comes into or goes out of the country. We have not had and do not have the resources to do so.

America has a much larger population than France. Something on the order of 4.5 - 5 times the number of people. I imagine that if the French authorities had the same restrictions placed on them by the French citizens and French laws as the United States does then they would not be as successful as they appear to have been. https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/fr.html
vs
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/us.html

What the above links means is it is harder to police all the immigrants and visitors coming to the country as well as those already here. If the US enforces stricter rules you will have someone, somewhere, screaming about their rights and liberties being taken away.

How difficult is it to monitor one person that checked into the country 1- 5 days prior with a forged passport (or even valid) to go to Walmart and the local hardware store(s) and buy items needed to make a pretty impressive bomb? It is not hard at all. I am sure Gator could give us an even better idea of how easy it is. Once they are in the US they are pretty much free to do what they want.

Lastly, we have this thing called a Constitution. It does not allow the US Government to deploy the military to act against civilians (of any type) in the US unless the US is at war on it's own soil. Then Martial Law has to be invoked as well as a few other things. Not sure on all that but it seems about right.

If a person comes to this country and decides to play terrorist, they are still considered a civilian. That means they are not part of an organized military which means the US military can not act against them. Yes, that means the Navy SEALs, Delta Force, Army Rangers, Marine Recon etc are effectively nuetralized. This means government and local law enforcement has to step in and keep things in check. Not saying they can not. But the US Government would basically have to enlist a "civilian army". Then there is the matter of vigilante groups that could possibly cut loose and injure or kill anyone they thought was connected to any possible terrorist activity that may have hurt someone they knew. Look here in the forums for the "Internet Vigilante" to see exactly the type of mentality I am speaking of.

Note regarding the "personal attack": Based upon your dual citizenship, which you have let us know the details of more than once, as well as the comment you made regarding allowing a war to be waged on American soil I don't feel it was a personal attack. I put it out there as a rhetorical question to point out the commonality of people assuming their way is the best way regardless of situation or circumstance.

Another thing I would like to point out is that you are in France, yet you say "...it is far better that we fight them at home....". When you come back to America and live here for several years and get rid of your signature that proclaims you are French-American (I noted the French comes first) then I may perhaps give you the benefit of the doubt and not take offense when you use the terms "we" and "our".
 
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This is not a personal attack MMarsh but rather a very subdued observation and you are free to take it however you like. You may have a US Passport and have US Citizenship but you are not American. We dont let people attack us, we take the fight to them.

Bulldogg

You conservatives love to paint people as un-American simply because they disagree with you. It might have worked if your policies hadn't been totally flat wrong. Your ideas have poisoned just about everything its touched and by your own hand, you have become totally irrelevant. You have lost the confidence of the American public and so your judgments about who is and isn't American (which is striking similar to when the Nazis were deciding who was and wasn't a German) only shows your desperation to be recognized as being important. In other words, your opinion on who is an American is worthless.

We dont let people attack us, we take the fight to them.
 Yeah, and that worked out real well so far hasn't it? Thats the exactly the foreign policy macho BS that got us in this mess in the first place. Let us know when that strategy starts to actually work. My ideas my not be popular, but they have worked in other countries, which is far more than I can say about your ideas of heavy handed militarism which have yet to work. Don't you think 4 years is long enough to prove your system a failure? Or perhaps 3000 dead servicemen isn't enough proof yet. WWII was fought and won in less time.

MarinerRhodes

How can you say it doesn't work? It hasn't even been attempted. The reason its hard to police is our border patrol system and INS system is a joke. In France its very tight. That is our greatest weakness. Control the border and the battle is already half over. The 9-11 hijackers were on expired student visas for 6 months and nobody had the brainpower to check up on them.You cannot possible equate the situation in Baghdad to a hypothetical situation in say...New York. In Baghdad the terrorists work in the open within the US they would have to be hidden. The terrorists do not have the numbers or support to even attempt such a insurgency. I mean even in Brooklyn (Arabs community) if they tried anything they would most likely be immediately denounced. As what happen in 2002 attempted Subway bombing. So you wouldn't need the military, just good old fashion police work from the boys and girls at the FBI. Exactly how they found and caught the 1993 WTC bombers.

I am not saying my idea will work, I'm saying its worth a try. What is for certain is the STAY-THE-COURSE tactic is NOT working, nor will it ever. Its time to try something else. The Administration and its allies won't do this because they are too arrogant to admit that they were wrong.

But If anyone as got a better idea, other than the failure we have got now. I'm all ears.

My SIG is there ONLY because people kept confusing me as being French and because I had a bad experience when I first joined. The Sig was suggested by a Moderator. People on the forum don't understand that the little flag is your LOCATION not your NATIONALITY. I do not favor one nationality over the other. Whether I am French-American or American-French is irrelevant to me, but if it makes you feel better I'll reverse it, or even remove it altogether. It makes no difference to me, I honor both my heritages and I don't take any s*** about either one.
 
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You fail to recognise the difference between a full war and a small war. Educate yourself then we can talk. Comparing WWII to a counterinsurgency operation is disingenuous. Ask the British how long Malaysia took.

HEHEHEHE I just re-read the rest of your comments... I never had "the confidence of the American public". Nor do I paint people as un-American for disagreeing with me. I have no policies nor has anything MY hand touched been poisoned.

LMAO

Get some air, you're losing it. Or better yet grab something from the company shelves and smoke it.
:)
 
Mmarsh: Good comments mate, i like your ideas and its refreshing to see possible solutions put foward.

Bulldog: Just go away.
 
bulldogg said:
You fail to recognise the difference between a full war and a small war. Educate yourself then we can talk. Comparing WWII to a counterinsurgency operation is disingenuous. Ask the British how long Malaysia took.

No, small wars (even insurgencies) can be ended quickly if its fought correctly. The Greeks did it against communist guerrillas in the 50's. The British defeat of the Boers is another example. The REAL issue is that you fail to understand the difference between a war thats waged by intelligent people who were competent at their jobs, versus those that command the war by their twisted ideology and are in blissful ignorance (or possibly indifference) of the reality of the situation on the ground.

HEHEHEHE I just re-read the rest of your comments... I never had "the confidence of the American public". Nor do I paint people as un-American for disagreeing with me. I have no policies nor has anything MY hand touched been poisoned.

Your ideology (at least the one you mention here) is the same as the one the Bush Administration has been spouting for 6 years, unless you missed telling us something. If you walk like a duck, act like a duck, and quack like a duck, don't be surprised if people call you a duck. The difference is even though I find your ideology just slightly to the left of Attila the Hun, I am NOT going to question your patriotism simply because I disagree with it.

And the public just doesn't buy that line of BS anymore. As for the rest, Your memory must be failing you. You have referred to Democrats, like Clinton, Pelosi, Murtha and other liberals as traitors, communists, or otherwise unpatriotic? I'll remind you the next time I see it.

LMAO

Get some air, you're losing it. Or better yet grab something from the company shelves and smoke it.

Thats the first intelligent thing you've said. Why not? Its really good stuff. Since my office is not bound by the embargo we can even get Cubans (with difficulty, bloody Castro and his government controlled monopoly). I tell you, You haven't lived until you tried a Cuban cigar (the nonexplosives kind), and I don't even smoke.

And BTW, you still haven't answered my question. I'll ask it again (for the third time) in case you missed it. Aside from the failed policy of stay-the-course, whats your idea to end the situation in Iraq?

I anxiously await your reply on this...
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I am sick and tired of people saying that we are fighting terrorists in Iraq. There was no threat of Iraqi terrorists until we invaded the country. Now we should leave because they clearly do not want us there, and we should not care what Europe or other first-world countries think about our actions because they're not the ones with people on the ground.

Fighting terrorists "over there instead of here" is also complete grade-A BS. Not a chance; the terrorists from "over there" are from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, etc. Not Iraq. IMO, the only way to stop them would be to carry out a black op of endless assassinations without trials or regard for international borders. Like Rainbow Team, only less discriminate.
 
major liability said:
I am sick and tired of people saying that we are fighting terrorists in Iraq. There was no threat of Iraqi terrorists until we invaded the country. Now we should leave because they clearly do not want us there, and we should not care what Europe or other first-world countries think about our actions because they're not the ones with people on the ground.

Fighting terrorists "over there instead of here" is also complete grade-A BS. Not a chance; the terrorists from "over there" are from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, etc. Not Iraq. IMO, the only way to stop them would be to carry out a black op of endless assassinations without trials or regard for international borders. Like Rainbow Team, only less discriminate.
Click to expand...

I agree. Its a political version of the 'bait and switch'. Go in expecting something, go out with something else totally different and with your wallet considerably lighter.
 
major liability said:
I am sick and tired of people saying that we are fighting terrorists in Iraq. There was no threat of Iraqi terrorists until we invaded the country. Now we should leave because they clearly do not want us there, and we should not care what Europe or other first-world countries think about our actions because they're not the ones with people on the ground.

Fighting terrorists "over there instead of here" is also complete grade-A BS. Not a chance; the terrorists from "over there" are from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, etc. Not Iraq. IMO, the only way to stop them would be to carry out a black op of endless assassinations without trials or regard for international borders. Like Rainbow Team, only less discriminate.
Click to expand...

The last time we in the United States of America were attacked the Terrorists had to use Civilian Aircraft (US Civilian Aircraft as a matter of fact) because the Terrorists do not have Military Attack Aircraft or Military Transport.
The Terrorists also attacked with Box Cutters.
Terrorists also do not have Naval Forces, so, I'd guess they would just have to walk from the Middle East to the United States of America en masse to do battle here.
 
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