Iranian Sees Border Danger

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bulldogg said:
Word to the wise, its best not to lecture soldiers and veterans about war when you yourself are short in the tooth.
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I don't think you have to have any military experience or be a certain age to say that war shouldn't be declared willy nilly, i think its common sense mate. :)
 
Gator said:
God how I wish Republicans in the United States of America would heed those words.
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And Democrats

I believe there is documented evidence of Iran training insurgents in Iraq on the ways of bomb making.....Pretty sure it has been in the news, in fact I am not going to drag it up for you because people need to learn to do research for themselves and not just believe everything that gets put in front of them....
 
WNxRogue said:
Im not in the buissness of condemning other nations based on circumstantial evidence, I need hard documented FACT.
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See this is your mistake FACT will not save you in an argument with ideologues as their argument is based on Ideology and not logic. On this board I have discovered that asking for proof tends to make them angry because their proof is their perception of the story and often based on preconceived notions.

:)
 
As I recall, Gator, Bush enjoyed overwhelming support from both parties in Congress and from the American people at large prior to and following the invasion of Iraq, so how bout we quit trying to blame Iraq on Republicans since the Democrats didn't exactly put up a fight when it came time to decide to invade or not.

Plus there's a bigger issue here, unreal expectations, apparently the American people expected to be in and out of Iraq in less than a year, I myself said we would be in Iraq for 10 years, minimum. Nation building doesn't exactly take place overnight, you can't replace three decades of rule by Saddam with a democracy with a snap of the finger.

And to any Democrats/hippies in the house, I have one word: Vietnam. Yeah, that was your fault.
 
Damien435 said:
As I recall, Gator, Bush enjoyed overwhelming support from both parties in Congress and from the American people at large prior to and following the invasion of Iraq, so how bout we quit trying to blame Iraq on Republicans since the Democrats didn't exactly put up a fight when it came time to decide to invade or not.
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How well does this excuse hold up given that it is now widely accepted that the information they were given to make their choice was at best flawed and at worse false. Lets be realistic here and say that both Democrat and Republican support for the war was gathered on half truths, had they have known the full story it may have had a different outcome.
 
Damien435 said:
As I recall, Gator, Bush enjoyed overwhelming support from both parties in Congress and from the American people at large prior to and following the invasion of Iraq, so how bout we quit trying to blame Iraq on Republicans since the Democrats didn't exactly put up a fight when it came time to decide to invade or not.

Plus there's a bigger issue here, unreal expectations, apparently the American people expected to be in and out of Iraq in less than a year, I myself said we would be in Iraq for 10 years, minimum. Nation building doesn't exactly take place overnight, you can't replace three decades of rule by Saddam with a democracy with a snap of the finger.

And to any Democrats/hippies in the house, I have one word: Vietnam. Yeah, that was your fault.
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As I recall, President Bush has never been in Combat.
 
Finding an Iranian in Iraq is sort of like walking into an apple orchard and finding an apple.

bulldogg said:
I believe there is documented evidence of Iran training insurgents in Iraq on the ways of bomb making.....Pretty sure it has been in the news, in fact I am not going to drag it up for you because people need to learn to do research for themselves and not just believe everything that gets put in front of them....
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;-)
 
Damien435 said:
There's a difference between supplying and selling, there's also a difference between Russia 20 years ago and Russia today, how would we fight a war against Russia for selling arms to the Iraqi's some 20-40 years ago? Attack the 20 odd nations who formerly comprised the Soviet Union to punish them? We've sold guns to people all over the world, selling them weapons isn't much of a threat towards any other nation, other than to say "See, they have our **** now so you better watch what you do." sort of thing. However supplying is different, supplying means to give weapons to another nation/group, not sell. And in all honesty, Iran would be foolish not to supply the Iraqi (and foreign born) insurgents because the more we struggle in Iraq the less likely we are to invade Iran, think about it, if Iraq had been a cake walk the White House would be full of confidence and want to invade Iran ASAP thinking it would be just as easy. Since Bush was making it look like Iran was going to be hit with an air strike or invaded at any moment Iran hardly had anything to lose by supplying the insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and abroad.
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A. Yes im sure that many of the weapons used by the insurgents were made under the USSR, but I would be suprised if they were all made then, and at least some of them were modern (or post-USSR).

B. Since the relationship between Iranian weapon producers and insurgents are unknown, there is an equal possibility of them selling the weapons and giving them away.

C. Then again, supplying the enemy of the leading superpower in the world, when a good portion of their military power is litterally right next door to the supplier, seems to not be a smart thing to do either.

Look, im not saying that they aren't supplying the insurgents. What im saying is that until PROOF can be discovered that proves that they are doing it, that action and condemnations should not be thrown around. Think about it like a criminal trial, you dont go to court and try someone with no evidence, they will throw the case out faster than you can say "proof".

Edit: I have no problem doing research, but if you are going to make statements YOU should back them up with proof when you post about it.
 
PJ and I go back a wee bit and he has a long memory.
:)

As for you WnXyzRogue... kid go re-read the god damned article I quoted and then try as you may to understand the rules of OPSEC and PERSEC and be patient. If you still dont get it, by all means seek a cranial transplant for the good of not just yourself but the rest of us as well who suffer through your selective reading comprehension.
 
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A 4 star General saying "we have proof of Iran supplying the insurgents" is good enough for me. I dont think you are grasping the level of Information that these generals recieve. That is a huge statement, they arent going to just say something like that without solid proof. These are SOLDIERS saying it, not politicians...
 
Big_Z said:
A 4 star General saying "we have proof of Iran supplying the insurgents" is good enough for me. I dont think you are grasping the level of Information that these generals recieve. That is a huge statement, they arent going to just say something like that without solid proof. These are SOLDIERS saying it, not politicians...
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State Dept said today that they will release the smoking gun evidences of iranian involvement in Iraq very soon
 
Those in charge in Iran right now may be bastards, but they aren't stupid bastards, they know that "solid" proof in this situation is almost impossible to aquire, it starts with speculation and eventually gets to the point of "pretty sure" but never absolutely, undeniable, irrefutable proof. Hell, the only irrefutable proof we have that Al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11 is that they said they did it, everything else is little more than speculation.
 
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You would only ask that question if I said something extremely brilliant or extraordinarily retarded, I'm leaning towards the latter...
 
bulldogg said:
PJ and I go back a wee bit and he has a long memory.
:)

As for you WnXyzRogue... kid go re-read the god damned article I quoted and then try as you may to understand the rules of OPSEC and PERSEC and be patient. If you still dont get it, by all means seek a cranial transplant for the good of not just yourself but the rest of us as well who suffer through your selective reading comprehension.
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I did read the article you posted and it said in effect that the US would show its proof sometime in the next couple of days, so until the situation changes your article is basically worthless. Congratulations. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read your sources before you post them.

As for the clever pun on my name, that would have taken a chimp all of what?.........14 seconds to come up with? Good job.

If you have something meaningful to say then say it, dont rely on juvenile insults to make your point.

Those in charge in Iran right now may be bastards, but they aren't stupid bastards, they know that "solid" proof in this situation is almost impossible to aquire, it starts with speculation and eventually gets to the point of "pretty sure" but never absolutely, undeniable, irrefutable proof. Hell, the only irrefutable proof we have that Al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11 is that they said they did it, everything else is little more than speculation.
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I understand that there will never be complete and absolute proof that they did anything, because in these types of matters there rarely is. But some proof is necessary, beyond the simple "well the weapon is produced in their country, so it must be them directly supplying terrorists"

Now we just have to wait for the governments proof to be released.
 
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As I said here in the other Post on this topic from the Major....
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/new-type-ied-comes-via-t32453.html#post290742
The bombs must be machine-milled to precise specifications in order to work properly, said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., a member of the Armed Services Committee. There are indications that some explosively formed projectiles used in Iraq may have been manufactured in Iran, he said. "There's a lot of evidence that there's some Iranian connection in producing or at least disseminating the technology," Reed said
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The IED war is always changing, as we build better defenses the enemy sadly builds better bombs.
The Iraqis are also using Platter Charges in Iraq, but they could have gotten that Intel from the U.S. Military http://www.emilitarymanuals.com/eod.htm seeing how everything is for sale now days, strangely enough.

I was going to ask how someone happened to pick up the piece of the Device that was stamped 'IED Made in Iran' after the Device had functioned, but then I see the Lawyerly talk of "or at least disseminating the technology" at the end.
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I've done the Iraqi ride more times than I really want to admit to now and each trip Iranian involvement has become larger and more frequent. Iran is very much involved in Iraq, you can believe that or not, but it won't remove the equiptment, weapons and extra hands they're providing that we have had and continue to deal with.

 
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