USA Today
January 31, 2007
Pg. 4

Bombs use molten metal to slice through armor
By Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — A sophisticated type of roadside bomb that U.S. officials have linked to Iran has been used increasingly against U.S. troops in Iraq.
The device is called an explosively formed projectile (EFP). It is usually made from a pipe filled with explosives and capped by a copper disk. When the explosives detonate, they transform the disk into a molten jet of metal capable of penetrating armor. They perform in the same way that U.S. anti-tank missiles do.
"Properly handled, it goes through armor like a hot knife through butter," said John Pike of GlobalSecurity.org, a military think tank in Alexandria, Va.
Officials such as Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the No. 2 U.S. commander in Iraq, and National Intelligence Director John Negroponte have said the new bombs are being provided by Iran and are killing U.S. troops. U.S. officials have declined to say exactly how many have been killed or how the weapons have been traced to Iran, which has denied supplying them.
Maj. Anne Edgecomb, a Pentagon spokeswoman, said the military wants to limit the information available to insurgents about the effectiveness of their attacks. That's the same reason the Pentagon says it no longer identifies troops killed by Iraqi snipers.
Last week, the Pentagon announced for the first time that an explosively formed projectile had killed a U.S. soldier. The attack occurred Jan. 22 in Baghdad, according to the Pentagon's announcement. It killed Spc. Brandon Stout, 23, of Grand Rapids, Mich. The Pentagon later changed the announcement. It removed the reference to an EFP and said only that Stout had died in an attack by an improvised explosive device, the general term used to describe roadside bombs in Iraq.
Since Dec. 4, EFPs have killed four other soldiers, according to published reports and family memorials:
•On Dec. 4, Army Sgt. Jay Gauthreaux was killed by an IED explosion in Baqouba, Iraq, the Pentagon said. A Dec. 20 report in U.S. News & World Report magazine said his Humvee was hit by an EFP.
•On Dec. 25, Army Sgt. John Bubeck, Spc. Aaron Preston and Pfc. Andrew Nelson were killed by an IED in Baghdad, the Pentagon said. A website run by Preston's family said he was killed by an EFP.
USA TODAY could not independently confirm either the magazine report or the website information.
Negroponte told Congress on Jan. 18 that the new weapons have killed U.S., coalition and Iraqi troops.
The bombs must be machine-milled to precise specifications in order to work properly, said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., a member of the Armed Services Committee. There are indications that some explosively formed projectiles used in Iraq may have been manufactured in Iran, he said. "There's a lot of evidence that there's some Iranian connection in producing or at least disseminating the technology," Reed said.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., also a member of the Armed Services Committee, said he believed Iran was involved in supplying advanced IED technology to insurgents. "My concern is that we're dealing with a thinking enemy who has adapted his techniques to be more lethal in the area of IEDs," Graham said.
Reed and Graham did not cite specific evidence.
IEDs are the largest killer of U.S. troops in Iraq. According to Pentagon figures through Jan. 20, they have killed 1,327 troops and wounded 11,861 others.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates said last week, "We are trying to uproot these networks that are planting IEDs that are causing 70% of our casualties."

The bombs must be machine-milled to precise specifications in order to work properly, said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., a member of the Armed Services Committee. There are indications that some explosively formed projectiles used in Iraq may have been manufactured in Iran, he said. "There's a lot of evidence that there's some Iranian connection in producing or at least disseminating the technology," Reed said

The IED war is always changing, as we build better defenses the enemy sadly builds better bombs.
The Iraqis are also using Platter Charges in Iraq, but they could have gotten that Intel from the U.S. Military http://www.emilitarymanuals.com/eod.htm seeing how everything is for sale now days, strangely enough.

I was going to ask how someone happened to pick up the piece of the Device that was stamped 'IED Made in Iran' after the Device had functioned, but then I see the Lawyerly talk of "or at least disseminating the technology" at the end.

The EOD techs I talked to were pretty good at finding out where certain parts/ordnance origniated from. They're like little explosive detectives. Besides that, when you're actually over there the Iranian influence is VERY obvious. I realize it is much different stateside and you guys don't get to see what we do, but I'm sure somewhere, somehow SOME media has reported on it at some point.

As for the article, it makes it sound like shaped charges (not just this particular IED) are some new amazing discovery. I think Mr. Monroe would disagree there. They've been using those against us for awhile now.

"Properly handled, it goes through armor like a hot knife through butter,"

I wish Haji would handle them when they detonate.

Originally Posted by PJ24

The EOD techs I talked to were pretty good at finding out where certain parts/ordnance origniated from. They're like little explosive detectives. Besides that, when you're actually over there the Iranian influence is VERY obvious. I realize it is much different stateside and you guys don't get to see what we do, but I'm sure somewhere, somehow SOME media has reported on it at some point.

As for the article, it makes it sound like shaped charges (not just this particular IED) are some new amazing discovery. I think Mr. Monroe would disagree there. They've been using those against us for awhile now.



I wish Haji would handle them when they detonate.

EOD Techs are not Metallurgists, nor do EOD Techs in the Field get into where a Device came from and or who made what.
I do happen to personally know the person in charge of that section at Quantico.

Originally Posted by Gator

EOD Techs are not Metallurgists, nor do EOD Techs in the Field get into where a Device came from and or who made what.
I do happen to personally know the person in charge of that section at Quantico.

No, but they are responsible for post blast analysis, and the INTEL gets fed up, researched etc, then back down and out for everyone to see. Besides, there are other guys that do research too. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on how it works or the details because I'm not, explosives aren't my thing; I have others things.

Maybe RnderSafe can add to this topic, how about it, sir?

Either way, you don't need a stamp to tell you the Iranians are present and involved, they make it pretty well known.

Well, I can tell you that blast analysis (having done that) is not what you were implying as far as finding out where something originated from. Having done hand jobs on things for Tech Intel purposes (having done that as well) I can tell you that people a whole lot smarter than I got what I sent so as to find out things that I did not know when I was playing with it.

If RnderSafe was issued some sort of magic eyeball to see those sorts of things in the Field, well he is no doubt in Iraq right now, as there is a need, with Armed guards around his magic eyes so as to protect them, while he looks at things and writes reports..... but I'd place more money on him going to Quantico and or the EOD Tech Center for any input that might be needed from him on any IED matters.

Personally, as I have said, I believe the Iranians are quite happy that Saddam is gone, and would like Iraq for themselves.

As for the enemy and the report...

"My concern is that we're dealing with a thinking enemy who has adapted his techniques to be more lethal in the area of IEDs," Graham said.

Our enemy is fighting for what they believe in, as are we, fighting for what we believe in. I expect them to think, as I do not view them as stupid, and I expect them to fight to win.

Originally Posted by Gator

If RnderSafe was issues some sort of magic eyeball to see those sorts of things in the Field, well he is no doubt in Iraq right now, as there is a need, with Armed guards around his magic eyes so as to protect them, while he looks at things and writes reports..... but I'd place more money on him going to Quantico and or the EOD Tech Center for any input that might be needed from him on any IED matters.

That is so childish it isn't even worth taking time to write a valid reply. lol Grow up, dude.

Gator, PERSEC and OPSEC... you should know better.

Originally Posted by PJ24

That is so childish it isn't even worth taking time to write a valid reply. lol Grow up, dude.

I have posted with Rndersafe, he seems like a very good person, and I'd work with him no questions asked, on any item.

And Bulldogg, if you believe me to have broken some sort of rule or protocol, please feel free to elaberate on the matter (in PM if you do not feel comfortable doing so in open forum)

is it the EFP?