Chechnya

[bushpig1998]

Didn't you see the outcry when the US went to Iraq?
I think Russia has a right to go into checnya and kick some behind - after the theatre and especially now, after the school incident.

 

[Sexybeast]

i ve heard russian troops fought not so good in first checnyan war because of their radical downsizing and lack of military resource (especially financial to train and feed soldiers)

second one russians fought much better...

the checnyan problems are just like other "wanna-an-independant-nation" problems all over the world like in palestian or in taiwan...

there is an interesting story about how Russians use a missile kills the ex-checnyan president something, right?

 

[Redneck]

Eurospike and Eaglestrike, unless you are prepared and able to provide RELIABLE sources for your accusations/claims, they will be considered flaming and treated as such.

 

[Vitaly]

Sadly, the Russian Airforce was using his satellite phone as a tracking device and fired a missile at the signature. This is what multiple sources state.

 

[Marksman]

Didn't you see the outcry when the US went to Iraq?
I think Russia has a right to go into checnya and kick some behind - after the theatre and especially now, after the school incident.

thats my point,but what makes me angry the most is the veto option for US,China,and some others,and guess what,only US use it.............all the time,so i call it a world manipulation

 

[Redneck]

thats my point,but what makes me angry the most is the veto option for US,China,and some others,and guess what,only US use it.............all the time,so i call it a world manipulation

You might want to review recent UN history before you jump to that conclusion, Marksman.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/iraq_03-10-03.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441


Although France, Russia, and China did not actually get the chance to veto anything, a nod is as good as a wink to a blind man, and a legitimate threat to use their veto power is the same as if it had actually been implemented, as far as "manipulation" is concerned.



If you want to further discuss this or anything non-Chechen, do so in another thread. Stay on topic.

 

[EuroSpike]

"Have you ever been to Russia?"

Yes i have.

"Of course the sometime rape and robbing of civilians is an awful thing and its a major reason I look down upon Russia's military for."

If i have understod right, raping, torturing and robbering civilians is an official doktrine in russian military as "crushing mental back bone of enemy".

"But, in all honesty the murder of school children is a h**l of a lot worse."

Worse or not. How many chechnyan school children are murdered by russians? Why don't chechnyans have right to pay some back? Russia should blame only itself for terrorist attacks it has caused and that should have been thought before invasion. And chechnyans are still far way from draw.

"Eurospike and Eaglestrike, unless you are prepared and able to provide RELIABLE sources for your accusations/claims, they will be considered flaming and treated as such."

Why Kavkazcenter.com is seen as less reliable than Russian Federation's official propaganda?

 

[Redneck]

YOU provide sources for YOUR claims, the forum staff will worry about other members following the rules.

Saying that it is official Russian military policy to rape, rob, and murder goes far beyond the pale of what is acceptable on this forum unless you are prepared to provide SPECIFIC sources for this information.
Any further such posts (without sources) will result in an immediate temporary ban.

 

[Doc.S]

This is an interesting article about the "great satans big enemy and the Russian dog´s not human beings" - never forget it all members of the terrorist supporters' club of How Iraq's kidnappers drew their inspiration from horrors of Chechnya.

LINK:

http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles422.htm

Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:

 

[Snauhi]

"Have you ever been to Russia?"

Yes i have.

"Of course the sometime rape and robbing of civilians is an awful thing and its a major reason I look down upon Russia's military for."

If i have understod right, raping, torturing and robbering civilians is an official doktrine in russian military as "crushing mental back bone of enemy".

"But, in all honesty the murder of school children is a h**l of a lot worse."

Worse or not. How many chechnyan school children are murdered by russians? Why don't chechnyans have right to pay some back? Russia should blame only itself for terrorist attacks it has caused and that should have been thought before invasion. And chechnyans are still far way from draw.

"Eurospike and Eaglestrike, unless you are prepared and able to provide RELIABLE sources for your accusations/claims, they will be considered flaming and treated as such."

Why Kavkazcenter.com is seen as less reliable than Russian Federation's official propaganda?

its not the russian faulth if the terrorists are hiding inside the houses where civilian lives, like in Palestina or Iraq.

And yes kavkazcenter in most unrelible source ever created, its millions of russian net news papers and they report everything that is happening in Checnya instead of some site made of 10-years old boys that live in in Turkey or some baltic states that hate Russia.


Just listen to this

Representative of the Military Committee of the Chechen Armed Forces informed “Kavkaz-Center” on the massive captures of the families of Chechen Mujahiddeen.

wtf is Representative of the Military Committee of the Chechen Armed Forces? and why should he inform Kavkaz Center, how is he informing them? if he informs them by phone or email then he would be dead a long time ago..

They cant accept the fact that the war In Chechenya is over, yes some criminall gangs exist there, but they cant do a :cen: because most of the influenced leaders are dead, Like "Black Arab" that died some 2 months ago.

 

[Snauhi]

If you have a chance go to the libary or somewhere and get

the book "My War" written by Gennadij Troshev. He was the general under the first and second Chechen war.

 

[Vitaly]

Time for another rant.....

An article that really angered me was http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/sep/08spec1.htm , not because of the content but for this info; "We were told by some Chechens in Moscow that most of the Black Widows are not very well educated, have little knowledge of Islam, and don't know that killing innocents in the name of Islam is forbidden. These widows are simply looking for revenge. They are being trained by fighters of Shamil Basayev, who is known to have had contacts with Osama bin Laden in the past." My dislike for Chechen Terrorists has just risen even more. They make themselves out to be Fervorous Islamic Fundamentalists and collaborate with other groups with equal ideals. How can they even say anything about being Islamic when they use "not very educated", not knowledgeable in Islam, and "simply looking for revenge" women as suicide bombers on innocent civilians? If the Chechens would attack military bases and not metro stations, theaters, airplanes, buses, and schools full of civilians I could at least have some respect for them.

The other thing is that I have just read a part of a Moscow Times article. It states 'Given that a series of deadly attacks, including co-ordinated raids in Ingushetia in June and a string of suicide bombings in Moscow, have failed to affect the Kremlin line, the extremists might opt for attacks of catastrophic proportions in the hope that the greater casualties and psychological shock would cause a capitulation,'

'In a clear recognition of this threat, the Federal Nuclear Power Agency announced Wednesday (September 1) that security has been boosted at nuclear power plants and other nuclear facilities across Russia. During Russia's first military campaign in Chechnya in 1994-96, the Chechen rebels acquired radioactive materials, threatened to attack nuclear facilities, plotted to hijack a nuclear submarine, and attempted to put pressure on the Russian leadership by planting a container with radioactive materials in Moscow and threatening to detonate it.

'Russia's second campaign, which began in the fall of 1999, has already seen Chechen-based radical separatists plant explosives in tanks filled with chemical substances, scout nuclear facilities and establish contacts with an insider at a nuclear power plant,' the article concludes.

 

[Sexybeast]

i seriously doubt that Russian army rape and torture chechenya ppl, i think Russian army is a dicplined armed force with a really proud tradition (soviets army in WW2, beautiful records after Stalingrad)

and it is now a pretty democratic nation

 

[godofthunder9010]

Its hard to say, but I'm very impressed with how effective Chechnian resisters have managed to be in the face of impossible odds. Russia is not as burdened down by ethics as much the USA or Israel. They could get away with being a lot more ruthless. That fact makes Chechnian success is utterly astounding. Very different from Afganistan actually. This was on Russia's home turf, right next to the very heart of their nation.

Regardless of that, they're tactics are those of cowards and heartless murderers. Inexcusable.

 

[Vitaly]

As a reverse of Kavkaz Center, one could look at the opposite end of the spectrum... http://english.pravda.ru/ Only I don't think it's as inaccurate.

Good Reading.....

http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/93/374/14454_abkhazia.html

If this is true then things could get interesting because according to http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/FMSOPUBS/ISSUES/threat.htm "in winter 2001 a detachment of US Special Forces arrived in Tbilisi with the task of preparing Georgian Special Forces to operate in the Pankisi Gorge"

Also

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/29/38856.html

Keep in mind its a month after the theatre attack and 3 years old.

The only one I completely agreed with

http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/96/382/14074_lessons.html

 

[rocco]

Palestinians have reasons for striking back the Israeli's are provoking them.

Chechnyans want to have their freedom but use way worse tactics to gain it.

israels actions are retalliatory

also the chechens have simply copied palestinians tactics, hijacks -9-11, maalot -> beslan, suicide bomber -> suicide bomber
all arab inventions.

eurospike, can you explain to me how blowing up a pizzaria filled with kids will achieve peace? or how shooting a mother and 4 children in the head will achieve peace? how will having a known terrorist as a leader achieve peace?
you have to realise, that israel is eager for peace, and has been eager ever since 1948. thats why egypt got sanai back, thats why jordan is at peace with israel, and israel has given arafag many chances for peace...

i can honestly keep going on and on, but its probably on deaf ears anyways, so without further adue, and so that this thread does not need to be unecessarily closed, if you or anyone else disagrees with me, feel free to PM me, and i will provide you with some great websites, media and forums...

 

[Snauhi]

This is Chechen Rebel OOB (1999 Pre-War)

Presidential Guard
Commander: Mogamed Hambiev
2 Companies
1 Guard Company
Total: 300 men

Military Forces
Main Staff Commander: Olhazar Abuev
Command Divisions: Military Administration, Logistics and Transport, Personnel, Military service, Ideology and Religion.
Command and Logistics Battalion located in Khankala.

-6 Mechanized Rifle Battalions located in Severniyih, Khankala, Gudermes, Nayrskaya. Had a total of 60 BTR's and BMP's.
-Tank Regiment consisting of 15 tanks located in Shali
-Mixed Artillery Battallion consisting of 3 self-proppelled artillery, 5 Grad systems, and 20 cannons over 100mm.
-Anti-Aircraft Battalion having 15 AAA complexes, and 40 anti-aircraft missiles.
-Medical Battallion.
-Recon-Diversionary tactics battalion.
-Several companies of militia.
Total strength of 2500 men.

Ministry of Shariatskoy Safety
Minister: Abu Monvayev
Department of general Shariatskoy safety
Department of Shariatskoy establishments performance and punishments
1st Islamic Company of Spetsnaz (Alkhan-Kala and Achhoi-Martan)
2nd Islamic Company of Spetsnaz (Grozny)
Total strength of 1300 men.

Anti-Terrorist Center
Commander: Hynkar-Pasha Israpilov
Investigation Battalion located in Gudermes
Fast Reactionary Group also located in Gudermes
Total strength of 350 men.

National Security Service
Department of foreign intelligence (spy department)
Department of counter-intelligence
Department of transport security
Department of industrial safety
Spetsnaz force "Borz"
Total strength of 500 men.

Ministry of Domestic Affairs
Staff Divisions: Personnel, Police, traffic police, fire protection.
Regional Offices
Total strength of 5000 men.

Border Guard Service and Customs
Department of Border Guard and Customs
Total strength of 400 men.

Tax Service
Department of Tax Services
Total strength of 100 men.

Field Commander Forces

Shamil Basaev's and Hasan Dolguyev Group:
Vedeno and Shali based
Total strength of 2500 men

Ruslan Haihoroev's group:
Bamut, Achhoi-Maratn, Synzhinkih region based
Total strength of 500 men.

Elhoev's group:
Bamut based
Total strength of 50 men.

Baguraev's group:
Isherskaya based
Total strength of 100 men.

Ruslan Galaev's group:
Grozny, Urus Martan, Shatoi, Komsomolskoe, Achhoi-Maran
Total strength of 500 men.

Salman Raduyev's group:
Gudermes, New Gordali
Total strength of 600 men.

Vahid Murdashev and Yamadaev's group:
Gudermes, Newgroznenskih
Total strength 150 men.

Gelishanov's group:
Nozhai-Yurt
Total strength of 150 men.

Hattab's group:
Serzhin-Yurt, Shali, Vedeno
Total strength of 550 men.

Baraev's group:
Urus-Martan, Bratskoe
Total strength of 200 men.

Turpal-Ali Atgereyev's group:
Shelkovskaya
Total strength of 200 men.

Hatashev's group:
Urus-Martan
Total strength of 300 men.

Mogamed Aslytdinov's group:
Kenhi
Total strength of 100 men.

Abalaev's group:
Zandak
Total strength of 150 men.

Militia:
Almost every town or village had its own standing militia.

There were also very large amounts of mercenaries.
In total, right before the beggining of the war, there were about 1000 mercenaries.


Chechen loses in the first and 2nd war were very high.

Map:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/images/chechnya.jpg

 

[Snauhi]

http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=537891.html

"After the Russian withdrawal in 1996, these radical forces revolted against the democratically elected government of President Aslan Maskhadov and turned Chechnya into a base for a monstrous wave of kidnapping and murder against Russians, Westerners and fello Caucasians."

This is today article from the independent russian news site
http://www.newsru.com/russia/06jan2005/bos.html

I translate it into english


Piratical attack on the local residents for the purpose of robbery completed in The vedenskeye region of Chechnya fighters from the group, which is subordinated To shamilyu Basayevu. killing no one, they were rushed into the houses and took away food products and valuable things. According to the data of regional operational staff on the control of counter-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus, to which refers Interfaks the fighters, which are subordinated To il'yasu To debishevu from the group Of basayeva, appeared at night in the outskirts of village Dyshni-Vedeno. to the words of local residents, they were rushed in into the houses, located in the outskirts of village, they took away food products, valuable of stuff;, - they stated in ROSH. It is established that the fighters enter into the group, leader of which is person, known under the nickname of Ryzhiy they noted in ROSH. The search for bandits at present is conducted. In the same region in the outskirts Vedeno of four fighters they completed attack on the local resident, who went in the motor vehicle OF VENYUKOVSKY FITTINGS PLANT -2103. They thrashed driver, exploded the machine.

 

[CABAL]

"After the Russian withdrawal in 1996, these radical forces revolted against the democratically elected government of President Aslan Maskhadov and turned Chechnya into a base for a monstrous wave of kidnapping and murder against Russians, Westerners and fello Caucasians."

Russians, Westerners and Fello Caucasians? Re-adjust. There is a racial tone to it.

After the withdrawal of Russian Troops, the war itself left massive damage and deaths in Chechnya. So in this case, public anger resulted in mob rage.

 

[Snauhi]

"After the Russian withdrawal in 1996, these radical forces revolted against the democratically elected government of President Aslan Maskhadov and turned Chechnya into a base for a monstrous wave of kidnapping and murder against Russians, Westerners and fello Caucasians."

Russians, Westerners and Fello Caucasians? Re-adjust. There is a racial tone to it.

After the withdrawal of Russian Troops, the war itself left massive damage and deaths in Chechnya. So in this case, public anger resulted in mob rage.

This is a quote taken from that article.