Okay, I'll be blunt. The argument isn't about the Constitution being a living document. It's about what would happen if we were given 24 hours to surrender our weapons. It wasn't about what the 13 colonies did, it's about what we would do. It's not about freedom of speech, it's about the right to bear arms.
Believe me it's a joke, a stupid joke with no validity, but never the less, only a joke.Not sure what you are talking about. I did not mean this as a joke. You made a decision that is all there is to it.
No one said it would happen overnight in your country, however a hypothetical question was raised asking what would you do if it did happen.Gun banning could be accomplished by whittling away a little at a time state by state. That is why it is important not to give an inch at the State level. It is also why it is important that the States and Federal government be reminded of their agreement to the people.(The Bill of Rights) It won't happen over night as it did in your country.
Nothing is free, including your much vaunted "freedom of speech" There are books full of laws regarding what you may or may not say. You believe far too much of your own propaganda.As for your statement, "your precious Constitution"
Damn right.:rock:
It also gives us freedom of speech.
Very very poor, obviously you are struggling here. Even more stupid than your comment about me having "given up" my right the own firearms. (shakes head).Don't know what this means, unless you didn't tell us you were a felon and they took your guns for that reason? How's that for poor guess work?:smile:
Whatever (shakes head)Believe me it's a joke, a stupid joke with no validity, but never the less, only a joke.
No one said it would happen overnight in your country, however a hypothetical question was raised asking what would you do if it did happen.Nothing is free, including your much vaunted "freedom of speech" There are books full of laws regarding what you may or may not say. You believe far too much of your own propaganda.
There is none so blind as he who does not want to see.
Very very poor, obviously you are struggling here. Even more stupid than your comment about me having "given up" my right the own firearms. (shakes head).
Yet you (and others) were arguing it as valid in the debate.... By answering that part of the post, you tried to make it part of the argument."The argument isn't about the Constitution being a living document."
I never said it was.
Very good... And I didn't say anything otherwise... Simply what would happen if we (US citizens) would do if we were given 24 hours to surrender our weapons."It's about what would happen if we were given 24 hours to surrender our weapons."
No, it is about what each individual US citizen would do.
Quote from the original post:
"So if you are a US citizen. What would you really do if you had 24 hours to surrender your weapons?",
So... If we were having a debate on women's rights, could I use the Middle Ages as a valid example? I didn't think so. Two different times. You'll have to come up with something a little more recent than 200+ years ago. Just goes to show how many holes are actually in your argument..."It wasn't about what the 13 colonies did, it's about what we would do. It's not about freedom of speech, it's about the right to bear arms."
Giving reasons to support a persons position is considered proper in most debates.
It's still about that right... I didn't say it was about trying to gain it... I said it was about the right itself... Read Chukpike."it's about the right to bear arms."
No, it is not.We all ready have that right. It is about taking that right away.
Wait.... What? You think the Constitution wasn't written to empower the people?!?! That's probably the scariest thing I've ever read on this forum! OF COURSE it was written to empower the people... That's why any rights not specifically mentioned in the Constitution went to the States and to the people. To make sure the people held the cards.5.56X45mm said:You need to remember that the Constitution was not written to empower the people; it was written to deny power to the federal government. The Constitution was meant to be a very heavy set of chains to keep the central, federal government in slavery to the States and people. Jefferson, Madison, Patrick Henry, and most others distrusted "consolidated power" and wanted to keep most power closest to the people (not anonymous and remote), to keep politicians in fear of the people.
I promise you, they do NOT fear them for the reasons you think they do. They fear them because they see that survival of the fittest, adapting to your new environment, CHANGE is the only way to live in this modern age, and that conservative, armed, religious right is ALWAYS opposed to it. There's a reason the symbol for the Republican Party is a donkey... Donkey's are stubborn... And stubborn refusal to accept change is NOT going to do America a whole lot of good. We can see how much it's done it in the past....5.56X45mm said:I can think of only one group politicians fear today. It's a conservative, armed, religious, right. What they call "Fly Over Country" and "People who cling to their guns and religion".
You're right... I really don't know why I said that..... Twisting it to my own ends I suppose.... It fit well though, didn't it?Actually, it's the elephant. A creature known for its memory. Maybe they remember why the 2nd Amendment is necessary in the first place. CHANGE is not the only mode. Change when you must, and when it will benefit America. Don't do it because it's the trendy rallying cry these days. Hopefully in the end Obama will prove a centrist who disappoints his supporters and disproves his critics.
There's a reason the symbol for the Republican Party is a donkey... Donkey's are stubborn... And stubborn refusal to accept change is NOT going to do America a whole lot of good. We can see how much it's done it in the past....
Actually, it's the elephant. A creature known for its memory. Maybe they remember why the 2nd Amendment is necessary in the first place.
You're right... I really don't know why I said that..... Twisting it to my own ends I suppose.... It fit well though, didn't it?
Back duirng the war of independence, it wasn't like a bunch of random guys got together and decided "alright, we're going to kick some ass!"
It was well organized with rich and influential people being key players in the struggle. Now unless there is a repeat of this, there will be no organized armed struggle of any kind. Like Spike said, there would be a few guys getting their asses handed over to them by SWAT teams.
Major liability has a good point here. Also a call to change is always a risky adventure that must be conducted only when the situation looks to be heading towards the hopeless end of things.
'"change" but to evolve" Change or evolve, really the same thing, but your point is well takenThe better way to do things, especially if it has served you well, is not to really "change" but to evolve. Bring what you have to the current level of science, knowledge and experience. Radical conservativism is a bit like a guy trying to stay childish because he can't deal with the real world. Likewise radical progressives are like folks who like to speed in their motorbikes with blind folds on.
If the second ammendment is truly challenged to the point where its existence looks to be terminated in a short while, there needs to be a capable leader with the resources and knowledge of how to organize a proper sort of resistance that uses political, economic, and if it comes down to it, martial force. He must be willing to go through with this at the cost of his own life. Also this leader should also be surrounded by smart, capable and resourceful people ready to back him up with their lives. Truth is, I don't really see the militias playing any role unless they are willing to submit to such a person or people (which I'm sure they have too much ego to do).
Actually Chupike, you made most of that stuff up.
My point is, unless rich, powerful and influential leaders actually stand up to the point that they will lay down their lives for the cause when the time comes, it's over. No, I don't have this belief that gun owners are poor and backward. If it were legal, I'd be a gun owner as well.
Yeah I understand what a f*cking militia is. But what you're missing out on, is a lot of half assed third world tinpot piece of f*cking crap Armies also have leaders and a command structure and they didn't impress much at all.
Eco-terrorists may have caused damage but the effect of their efforts? Nothing. Not a damn thing has changed as a result of their actions.
Going back to the point: how the American public would react to such a measure is something we can only tell once such an event has occured. Why someone would get so defensive about that is beyond me. Unless they know they'll actually give up without a fight and feel ashamed about it.
I suppose that's why I'm not a PolySci major... I'm a music major. I wouldn't get that wrong. But again, you've completely avoided my last post. Bravo. I commend you on your obviously superior selective reading genes.I'm pretty sure your college would appreciate you not telling anyone you go there.:lol:
"If it were legal, I'd be a gun owner as well."
Who's getting defensive?
"Why someone would get so defensive about that is beyond me. Unless they know they'll actually give up without a fight and feel ashamed about it."
Sounds like the voice of experience.
Chupike, did you leave a good portion of your brain on a cruise or something?
Or did you major in English at some point in your life? Because you talk like one. They all have one thing in common: the ability to send any argument off into irrelevent tangents.
But if you ask me, between fighting for a completely lost cause for people that aren't worth my time and effort and packing up and leaving, I take packing up and leaving. The world is big and there are plenty of places to go.
And just how is "if it were legal, I'd be a gun owner as well" being defensive?
"Why someone would get so defensive about that is beyond me. Unless they know they'll actually give up without a fight and feel ashamed about it."
No, that part is about you.
Maybe, but I am not the one packing up and running.
As the topic title asks, Are Americans any Different, I believe the answer is yes.
Sure go ahead and waste your time trying to change something you can't change. If the majority of the population says they want the country to be a certain way, have enough discipline and cohesion to make the changes happen etc., it's really time for you to fit in or go.
In my situation, either I can try to change thousands of years of pain-in-the-ass tradition or I can do everyone a favor by leaving. I elect leaving. It saves me the time and energy I can use on more useful things.
I won't stand my ground if no one wants me there. I'll move on and fight for someone else. Actually, that's how America came about to be.
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