"You Lie" Aftermath

-snip- I seriously doubt the FF would have considered perjury because of an affair that big a deal simply because some of the Founding Fathers themselves were known to have affairs.-snip-

It is not about choice B, it is about lying under oath. It does not matter whether it is the prez or you, this simply is a major crime under most western laws, and laws should in theory be applied to all alike.

As a foreigner and being absolutely neutral in the inner US politics I always judged this simple fact a sufficient base for an impeachment.

Rattler, FWIW
 
Personally I at the time I was too young so I didn't know but in retrospect I felt bad for him. It was very much the fault of Hillary but we probably know enough about their sort of relationship. It was a political alliance.
And Lewinsky... she's lucky to be alive... the sort of damage to the country she caused is inexcusable.

It was a moment of weakness for him but heck, it was a real hard place to be.

"Personally I at the time I was too young so I didn't know but in retrospect I felt bad for him."

Why? Because he got a hummer or because he got caught?

"It was very much the fault of Hillary but we probably know enough about their sort of relationship. It was a political alliance."

It's the wifes fault when a man cheats? Spoken like a true politician.
Maybe we should start a poll to see how many women beleive it is the wife's fault.:smile:
Political alliance? Wonder what Chelsea thinks of that statement?

"It was a moment of weakness for him but heck, it was a real hard place to be."

I'll take your word for how hard it was.:wink:

President Clinton was not in danger of being impeached for getting a hummer.

Bill Clinton, President of the United States, was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. The charges, perjury, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power arose from the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the Paula Jones lawsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
 
It is not about choice B, it is about lying under oath. It does not matter whether it is the prez or you, this simply is a major crime under most western laws, and laws should in theory be applied to all alike.

As a foreigner and being absolutely neutral in the inner US politics I always judged this simple fact a sufficient base for an impeachment.

Rattler, FWIW

But a part of Justice is compassion. We are not the ancient Hebrews of old that follow every law to its literal translation, there are such things such as extenuating circumstances. In Bill Clintons case, that extenuating circumstance was twofold. First was that his testimony was about a private matter and had NOTHING to do with his presidency. Secondly that the case was a setup by his political enemies who were determined to tear him down no matter the reason or cost. It used to be the case up until Bill Clinton that the Presidents personal business was his business -and both parties repected this no matter how much they hated the guy politically.

Secondly, if you look at it in retrospect, the fact that he to recant his little fib and the subsequent fallout from did considerable damage to the country, it ruined his last 2 terms in office -which was exactly what his enemies wanted. The country would have been far better off had he been allowed to finish his final 2 years as the American public wanted him to do when they reelected him.

Even more seriously look at the terrible Precedent it set. From now on, no president will dare testify under oath. Its no surprise that both Bush and Cheney REFUSED to testify under oath when they were invetigated by the 9-11 or WMD commissions, which unlike the Lewinsky case were issues of national importance. Both men made the condition that there testimony not be under oath as they knew exactly what might happen if they were caught in a lie. Which of course they were, espicially about what lead up to the Iraq war.
 
Even more seriously look at the terrible Precedent it set. From now on, no president will dare testify under oath. Its no surprise that both Bush and Cheney REFUSED to testify under oath when they were invetigated by the 9-11 or WMD commissions, which unlike the Lewinsky case were issues of national importance. Both men made the condition that there testimony not be under oath as they knew exactly what might happen if they were caught in a lie. Which of course they were, espicially about what lead up to the Iraq war.
Or maybe it was the Valery Plame thing where the investigators found out who spilled the beans fairly quickly but kept on fishing untill they bagged Scooter Libby on some minor detail.
 
And Lewinsky... she's lucky to be alive... the sort of damage to the country she caused is inexcusable.

Except we can excuse the President.;)

But a part of Justice is compassion. We are not the ancient Hebrews of old that follow every law to its literal translation, there are such things such as extenuating circumstances. In Bill Clintons case, that extenuating circumstance was twofold. First was that his testimony was about a private matter and had NOTHING to do with his presidency. Secondly that the case was a setup by his political enemies who were determined to tear him down no matter the reason or cost. It used to be the case up until Bill Clinton that the Presidents personal business was his business -and both parties repected this no matter how much they hated the guy politically.

Secondly, if you look at it in retrospect, the fact that he to recant his little fib and the subsequent fallout from did considerable damage to the country, it ruined his last 2 terms in office -which was exactly what his enemies wanted. The country would have been far better off had he been allowed to finish his final 2 years as the American public wanted him to do when they reelected him.

Comments by mmarsh and 13th Redneck are way to funny for words. If they weren't so sick.

Apparently 13Th Redneck believes President Clinton should have had Monica Lewinsky killed rather "damage the country".

This is really sad because there are those who believe Marylin Monroe was killed to cover up her affair with President Kennedy.

Then you have mmarsh saying President Clinton should have just been left alone to serve out his last two years, or his last 2 terms.(as mmarsh can't seem to decide).

News flash! Perjury, Obstruction of Justice, abuse of power are very serious offenses.

By mmarsh reasoning just lying is not enough for impeachment. So the Nixon thing was way overblown?

He may very well have been found guilty if he had a unbiased jury, but he did not. He was judged by Senators who routinely violate the public trust with the same kind of behavior.

It used to be the case up until Bill Clinton that the Presidents personal business was his business.

Wrong, Look at Andrew Jackson and the persecution of he and his wife received.

Sometimes I think mmarsh thinks American history started when he was born.

So go ahead and think it is OK to get a little head behind closed doors. Think it is OK to lie. Never mind your enemies may blackmail you and get you to push an agenda detrimental to the country, rather than expose personnel indiscretions.
 
Just because I'm curious... how is lying about an affair obstruction of justice if it's not against the law?

Having an affair in it's self may not be against the criminal law.

Lying under oath is against the law.

Obstruction of Justice is against the Law.

Being charged with Obstruction of Justice has to do with him using his position as President to block or obstruct the investigation.
 
Having an affair in it's self may not be against the criminal law.

Lying under oath is against the law.

Obstruction of Justice is against the Law.

Being charged with Obstruction of Justice has to do with him using his position as President to block or obstruct the investigation.
Investigation of what, an extramarital affair?

In which case, no wonder they voted down the impeachment so fast.
 
Investigation of what, an extramarital affair?

In which case, no wonder they voted down the impeachment so fast.
So Felony Perjury isn't a problem? So many said big deal if it didn't affect his job. What about the classified briefing he recieved while also recieving a Lewinski? She wasn't cleared for such things.
 
You know what I mean.

Yeah, you just wanted to twitter with out thinking. I chose to show how meaningless twittering can be.

If you don't think lying is a serious offense, here is what it cost Clinton.

In April 1999, about two months after being acquitted by the Senate, Clinton was cited by Federal District Judge Susan Webber Wright for civil contempt of court for his "willful failure" to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit. For this citation, Clinton was assessed a $90,000 fine, and the matter was referred to the Arkansas Supreme Court to see if disciplinary action would be appropriate.[13]
Regarding Clinton's January 17, 1998, deposition where he was placed under oath, the judge wrote:
"Simply put, the president's deposition testimony regarding whether he had ever been alone with Ms. (Monica) Lewinsky was intentionally false, and his statements regarding whether he had ever engaged in sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky likewise were intentionally false...." [13]
In January 2001, on the day before leaving office, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license as part of an agreement with the independent counsel to end the investigation. Based on this suspension, Clinton was automatically suspended from the United States Supreme Court bar, from which he then chose to resign.[14]
[edit] Civil settlement with Paula Jones

Eventually, the court dismissed the Paula Jones harassment lawsuit, before trial, on the grounds that Jones failed to demonstrate any damages. However, while the dismissal was on appeal, Clinton entered into an out-of-court settlement by agreeing to pay Jones $850,000.
 
At this rate, the Republican Party will be a non entity for quite some time.

Pretty much......you don't want to have a rude redneck and a corrupt Wall Street hustler as your bookends without anything much in between. The big deal now is to.......to,well....LIE about the whole health care plan/plans and try to slip in something that gives the Insurance industry MORE power and profit. Not the most noble of crusades.

Protect the wealthy few and fool the dummies with a lot of minor "hot button" stuff and a big bucket of BS. That's a helluva game plan.....but it sells because in Democracy..you get what you deserve.
 
"Personally I at the time I was too young so I didn't know but in retrospect I felt bad for him."

Why? Because he got a hummer or because he got caught?

"It was very much the fault of Hillary but we probably know enough about their sort of relationship. It was a political alliance."

It's the wifes fault when a man cheats? Spoken like a true politician.
Maybe we should start a poll to see how many women beleive it is the wife's fault.:smile:
Political alliance? Wonder what Chelsea thinks of that statement?

"It was a moment of weakness for him but heck, it was a real hard place to be."

I'll take your word for how hard it was.:wink:

President Clinton was not in danger of being impeached for getting a hummer.

Bill Clinton, President of the United States, was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. The charges, perjury, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power arose from the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the Paula Jones lawsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

Generally,a President of the USA is not called on to testify whether or not he got a *******. Opening that door had been considered unacceptable even if there was reason to suspect it could be true. Given all that is at stake,there could be major problems if all it takes to stage a coup is one bimbo with a tale to tell, whether true or false.

Clinton had to know how desperate the Republicans were to tarnish him and prevent him doing anything constructive. They spent years trying to fabricate something out of Whitewater.
 
Generally,a President of the USA is not called on to testify whether or not he got a *******. Opening that door had been considered unacceptable even if there was reason to suspect it could be true. Given all that is at stake,there could be major problems if all it takes to stage a coup is one bimbo with a tale to tell, whether true or false.

Clinton had to know how desperate the Republicans were to tarnish him and prevent him doing anything constructive. They spent years trying to fabricate something out of Whitewater.
The Republicans didn't have to tarnish Clinton, he was quite capable of that himself. In a world of people obsessed with "Entertainment Tonight" we see a Clown heading up a cesspool of corruption that was very entertaining for the people to watch.
Perhaps he shouldn't have been asked, but he was asked & he chose to commit Perjury.
 
Generally,a President of the USA is not called on to testify whether or not he got a *******. Opening that door had been considered unacceptable even if there was reason to suspect it could be true. Given all that is at stake,there could be major problems if all it takes to stage a coup is one bimbo with a tale to tell, whether true or false.

Clinton had to know how desperate the Republicans were to tarnish him and prevent him doing anything constructive. They spent years trying to fabricate something out of Whitewater.

Being new to the forum you may want to read over a whole topic before weighing in as, "Opening that door had been considered unacceptable", "the personal lives are only the politicians business", has been previously debunked.

Andrew Jackson and the mud thrown at his wife.
JFK and Marylin Monroe.
Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick.
Just to name a few.

Most people are no longer buying the sexiest view that it is the woman's fault. "coup is one bimbo with a tale to tell"
Clinton being President and a Rhodes Scholar should shoulder a small share of the blame.:lol:

Since Clinton "had to know how desperate the Republicans were to tarnish him" , why couldn't he keep his pants zipped?
 
Generally,a President of the USA is not called on to testify whether or not he got a *******. Opening that door had been considered unacceptable even if there was reason to suspect it could be true. Given all that is at stake,there could be major problems if all it takes to stage a coup is one bimbo with a tale to tell, whether true or false.

Clinton had to know how desperate the Republicans were to tarnish him and prevent him doing anything constructive. They spent years trying to fabricate something out of Whitewater.

Thats because Generally speaking he's the first one. As for the Republicans fabricateing stuff about whitewater, I lived in Ark, Trust me Republicans didn't need to fabricate anything about him. they had enough already just from watching him. Besides it wasn't him that had holdings in Whitewater, it was Hillary, back then Bill wasn't sh**

Oh btw, he did inhale.
 
Thats because Generally speaking he's the first one. As for the Republicans fabricateing stuff about whitewater, I lived in Ark, Trust me Republicans didn't need to fabricate anything about him. they had enough already just from watching him. Besides it wasn't him that had holdings in Whitewater, it was Hillary, back then Bill wasn't sh**

Oh btw, he did inhale.
Ark. Democrats named him "Slick Willy", if it wasn't in writing he might weasel out of an agreement.
 
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