Will Israel and USA attack Iran

F

FlyingFrog

Active member
Will Israel and USA attack Iran when they find out iran is indeed developing nukes?

Please your thought about this.

For me I think they will attack to destroy the nuke-facilities even invade iran to make a regime change.
 
I think we will go remove them definitely. As for an invasion for the purpose of a regime change, I think not. It's not another case where the dictator is anyone who opposes him.
 
Hmmm....What dose Israel have to do with any US actions? The US dident call for Israel to help in the first or second war in Iraq....Why would Iran be any diffrent? Im sure however, thqat both countrys are considering an Air-Attack on the Iranian nuclear program, and I hope some will do this soon, before those nuts have a working device in their hands.
 
An US attack on Iran is almost as true as the fact that the sun will go up tomorrow FlyingFrog. Why? Because that would put the allies to US in a possition where all Arab nations rather would help the Iran regime then to support the US. Israel is the arab nations traditional enemy number one with one exception and that is Turky, there are some courtesy thinking behind all wars conducted in the middle east. US aswell as Europe are not up for an outburst from the OPEC organisation and the oil the power from the black gold are influencing the world community who has turned against the disturbances in Sudan.

US, even if they probably got the worlds most powerful army they can not fight the whole region for themselves even with Brittish support they would make the whole world go back to another stone age if they conducted military actions togheter with Israel in aggression towards Iran. Even when US had support from the UN in the 1991 Gulf War when they liberated Kuwait togheter with saudi and other arab nations the big fear was that Israel should be involved in the fights against Saddam Husseins forces in Kuwait and in Iraq with eather the Israeli airforce or ground units.

That would have made that war nearly impossible to carry out. And todays date - You find highly sophisticated western equipment in all of those countrys that would turn there anger towards US and GB if Israel would get involved. For some examples. You can find over 400 IFV in the c.o US 30% and GB 70% built Desert Warrior vehicle only in the United Arab Republic. You find state-of-the-art Challenger tanks in Saudi Arabia and Patriot missile defenses all over the place.

The main US strategy for the middle east has always been to not make any arab nation bigger then the other. And localy disputes has always saved the balance in that specific region, and an Israeli co US attack on Iran would probably be the only thing that would make all arab nations to put away there local differences and attack togheter in a joint operation, If that happend US and its allies would be in a world of pain. However US have started successful military coups before against Iran and war is maby not the first solution for the Iran problem - it is more likely an emergency solution if Iran doesn`t attack the US first that is. In a military coup the world community would support the US and later the UN would go in much faster then in this Iraq war. Israel would not be involved in any of these actions.


Fast analysis of the Israel/US war conducted by:

Doc.S

The mad "doctor" from sweden

:cheers:

:viking:
 
I'm curious.

When Israel bombed the Iraqi reactor (1981?), they used F-16s, right?

Gotta figure they're weighed down with bombs. Also have to figure they're flying below radar. Both means they're sucking up gas.

So, what the combat radius of a weighed down F-16, flying at low altitude?
 
Even if the entire middleast united they aren't going to defeat America let alone America and the UK... America and Israel are friends but America isn't going to fight along with them, I dont agree with this but it would turn many countries against us. Those countries cant defeat Israel what would possibly make you think they could defeat America?
 
It is not a matter of military power....Its very simple:

1) Oil- The US needs the oil from the Saudis and others.
2) Bases- In order to attack hostile nations in the ME, they need some bases around.

If they attack with Israel, they will be in a bad position for oil and for bases....
 
Big_Z:

what would possibly make you think they could defeat America?
Click to expand...

Oh its quite simple to be honest and the answer is large weapon exports to countries that are simply US and GB allies for the moment. Another important detail is the book Beyond belief that VS Naipaul 2001 won the prestige full Nobel price for. Middle east is a place where you can find maby as much as 98% literalism amongst the people. A combination various western well supplied arms and other military equipment make a situation Israel C.o US army togheter with GB or without GB a hell hole. Before Iraq was the major threat in the region.

Saddam Hussein had the largest army. He had plans to take over the whole show down there and unify the arab nations. All open intelligence information from the C.I.A and other intelligence offices around the gulf and europe points at this. A big dream for Saddam Hussein and other leaders as Libya's leader Muammar Qadaffi they both tried to unify that region to be a stronger region with more power to control there own destiny.

Qadaffi tried to do this when he started to build up IPAL or Islamic Pan African Legion. That was a attempt to unite all arab countries under a single flag. Muammar Qadaffi has generously outfitted dissidents and mercenaries from Egypt, Sudan, Mali, Chad, Tunisin and more west african and middle east states. Well his plans didn´t go to well. First the 1991 Gulf War were the coalition liberated Kuwait, the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom and US toghter with GB and a handfull of other allies crushed the remains of Saddam Husseins army was (before 1991) much feared and the largest army in the region.

Qadaffi know now that with this old U.S.S.R equipment he can´t do anything to stop or be triumphant in any aspect if he would challenge west again. The former threats from Libya and Iraq are exterminated. BUT there is always a big but. The numerous allied arab countries in this region do not have any counterpart to fear anymore.

Well these countries do have one thing in common. Whole armys are fitted with state-of-the-art western arms, and not only that. The arab nations got plenty of dollars to play with. That means that they can train their armys alot more then Saddam Hussein and Qadaffi could do. A well trained army is important if you got good equipment. An army without any substantial training and with good or fair equipment is nothing if they don´t have any experience.

Iraq had the regions largest army (on paper) but it was not an armour fighting country. It was formed around anti Infantry wave structures. The tanks and the equipment that Iraq fielded was leftovers from the Iraq/Iran war not at all suited for modern heavy armour battles. The arabs are not stupid and they have been studying these different weaponsystems fielded by west for a long time now. And they have bought alot of western but not to forget even state of the art Ukraine built T-80U+ tanks and equipment as well.

They had and still got well trained airforces in the Gulf War, one of the pilots from the Arab nations was one of the first pilots that got a double kill in one of the Gulf War`s few dogfights up against Iraqi airforces that fielded France Built Mirrage F.1. Mirage F.I was a good fighter plane but in the hands of Iraqi pilots you could send up a field duster to do the same bad work in a fighter jet. So yes the different arab nations have taking lessons in western tactics and wepons and they got alot of them.

And not just that. They got training from west all the time and joint manouvers in that particular region has shown that these guys that have grown with there oil to be powerful wouldn`t under any circumstance let a coalition force with Israel and US do anything towards Iran. That would start a chain reaction and the arab nations would pretty fast drive the US and other countries that support them out of the region with lak of support from Europe.

If Saddat had lived today, the former Eqypt leader he would have state-of-the-art Abrams to play with against Israel. Not only that they got plenty of Apache attack helicopters to and good training in western tactics. Well I do not doubt that a military coup can bring down Egypt even today as it did in the 60`s. These countries are famous for there literalism.

You only need one Hitler to make another world war. That is my point but that is not the issue but in a larger scale analysis you can find out that many of our best systems including smart missiles are delivered to the middle east armys. And a missile is always a missile, problem is that these armys dont field bad soldiers, pilots and thats why an Israel involvement with this new playground rules are so dangerous to all of us. There were one or two threats but today you got several smaller threats that in a political crisis would be a great threat once again. And we can all thank our different leaders for this and their short time thinking political agendas. It is like shooting an asteroid in to smaller fragments and let it rain over the planets surface.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
But let me clacify this fact:
Iran is NOT Arabs although they are all Muslim countries :D

Arabs don't like Iranians, Iranianas hate Arabs.

I don't know if Arabs will bother anything if Iran is attacked and weakend by anyone.

Iran (ex-Persia) was conqured by Arabs first, and Islam was introduced into Iran by Arabs a few hundreds years ago when Arabs ruled Persia.
 
You know, since Israel did not have in air refueling capability...

Heavy load F-16...

Looooong trip.....

Wonder how they made it without a refueling?
 
Let us hope and pray that the US and Israel never undertake a coopperative military opperation again any Arab country. What a Political nightmare!

But yeah, I don't trust ANY group of relgious fanatics with nukes ... as a policy of wanting to see the human race not being completely wiped out at some point in the future. So yeah, unless something drastic happens to change the government of Iran, them having nuclear weapons is something that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen. How you stop it? Eh, somebody else figure it out.
 
Do not forget that Iran has it's own social problems. The kids these days hate the Ayatollahs (How the hell do you spell that?).
 
I take it back....

Israel and US will attack Iran toghter I think..... 8)

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Surely they will!

As an Iranian Moslem I think there is a lot that you can learn from me and vice versa, of course if you are interested. I can share what I know from our military to philosophy. Remember that I will do my best to only provide facts without any emotional talking, so that we may conduct a healthy debate, I do urge you to do the same. You can learn more from your enemy than a friend! Although naturally it is our governments that have problems not we ordinary people, but eventually we have to take sides.

First I would like you to know that most of those people who are talking about regime change in Iran are backed and financially supported by US and its allies, for instance, the Iranians who live in US. You can hear that stuff from them and smell the stench of exaggeration and the bended truth; yet back in my country we mostly support our government. Economical problems can be found within any country. Please note that Islamic Government has been existing only for some 25 years of which 8 years have been fighting Saddam. This is a small part of history. During this time we have been under different types of sanctions which further weakened the improvement of Iran. So personally I don’t blame our government for the problems.
Iran-Iraq war was triggered by Saddam in form of an invasion. Saddam was being supported from Russia, Arab countries, France, USA and many other countries. US provided Saddam satellite intelligence and sold double use chemical technology to him. At the time Saddam's air force and mechanised units were up-to-date and new. The main problem of Iran was spare-parts, so we couldn't even repair the simplest problems.
Anyways, after war Iran started to build up its military, so no other nation would invade again.
As you know already since then IRI has been cooperating with China, Russia, South Korea and some other countries to import military technology, at the same time through means of reverse engineering acquiring other technologies, modifying the old units and improving them. Most importantly now Iran produce its own ammunition, guns, missiles, APCs, Tanks and spare parts, so being self sufficient was the main aim. Apart from modifying and improving the armour, also has been designing new APCs, small tactical tanks and even a stealth fighter.
The stealth fighter that from some aspects is similar to the new version of Russian MIG, yet it does use an Iranian radar system. Of course as usual it's eject sit is Russian and it's engine is believed to be the modified version of Mig 29's, the design of its body which has a new circular shape in the middle is Iranian; more importantly this will be mass produced by the year 2008. If you are interested in detailed information, I can provide links to useful sites and images. We’ve got some Kilo class Russian submarines as well.
A little more sanctions and Iran will become even tougher. But it's all words, all I can say is that never underestimate your enemy.
As for nukes and WMDs, let’s assume that Iran actually acquired nukes, in comparison of numbers US and Israel got a lot more, so it is unwise for Iran to go nuclear even if it had. So it's just nonsense to argue that it's a threat to the world peace. Some might argue that we might give them to terrorists! But can you see the difference? If a nuke blow up then the whole world will go nuclear.
The most important strength of Moslems is that they don't fear death, specially when they have a leader and are defending their land; this gives them the edge of courage, because you have given them a reason to fight. It is the rule that the invader usually has less motivation to fight than the defender in his land, an example of this could be Vietnam.

Invading Iran will be the last level of the game I would say. So please save the game before initiating! lol

Personally I think the day will come and the Armageddon battle will take place in Middle East, considering the influence that Iran has on its neighbouring countries, imagine Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Syria out of a sudden start to fight the same battle. Although I’m sure many other countries will join both sides, what a mess. US or rather Israel could launch its nukes and go for ethnic cleansing! But then you won’t be able to use the radiated land for years. Also you will receive some in return.
“You can kill a man but not an Idea “; I wonder who said that.

I see your government as being led by Israel and a big oppressor. He who has the power is corrupt, and who’s got the most is the most corrupt. American people in my personal view are mostly ignorant, being influenced by the media. Of course you could say the same thing about Iranians. For god sake don’t accept any scrap of information they toss you! Why do you think a Moslem that wants to carry out a terrorist attack would carry a copy of Qur’an around and be bearded?! And please define the word “Terrorism” for yourself, if a B-52 drop a cluster above a small village, isn’t it terrorising poor people; if not enlighten me.
 
Firstly, of course your proposal of discussing is fine. That's what we do here. The two perspectives are muddied by the fact that we both are convinced that the other side has been brainwashed.

For one, the government of Iran under the Shah was corrupt and there are bad things that can be said of it, but it was the MOST technologically and economically advanced nation in all of Islam. The current government destroyed that, and I'm of the opinion that it was a stupid move. Fine to throw out the Shah, but why drag your country back into the dark ages? Modern Iran, from what you've said, is trying so hard to recover from it and get their nation back on track.

The biggest disagreement that US and Iran has is simple. Terrorism. Iran funds it, trains men for it, financially supports it and openly encourages it. Yet terrorism has not benefitted anyone. Israel can "legitimately" oppress the Palestinian people because the fact is, any one of them at any moment could be a terrorist trying to kill them. Take away suicide bombers, hijackers and the like, and then Israel has no more justification for mistreating the Palestinians in any way. It would also go a long way towards correcting the false stereotype that "Muslims are a bunch of religious fanatics who are out to kill everyone". Sure, drop terrorism and the psycho extremist groups would have to concede that Israel has the right to exist, but so what? Israel would have to concede that Palestine has the right to exist as well (which they are already doing in a limited sense ...). Why is acknowledging what already is (Israel) so very hard? Why provoke the USA into ever having a reason to invade by promoting the murder of its citizens?

No I don't agree with you on the playing field being equal if it came to war between the USA and Iran. Iraq was in the same boat: They were relatively up to date. Probably more up to date than Iran is now actually. It didn't go well for them at all.

I don't trust religions of the world (don't care which one we're talking about) to control nukes. Religious fanaticism can kick in and stupid things can happen. True, Israel has them. Israel is also completely surrounded by overwhelmingly numerically superior hostile populations. Esentially, its like Pakistan having them so as a means of discouraging India from invading. And please note, that's a Muslim country with nukes.

I don't agree that Christianity and Islam are doomed to battle one another is a final great war. That destiny is only achieved if we choose it. Mankind must choose.

Now I don't know who to believe about what the Iranian people's support of their government, but the Iranian government isn't exactly opening the door to majority approval deciding whether they continue to rule.
 
Firstly I would say that Shah (king) of Iran was a US puppet, the revolution took place because we didn't want anyone else rule our country, it’s a very basic rule of democracy! Yet US even now still continue to install puppet regimes or elements in different countries. This is not just what I say, this is what Pakistanis, Egyptians, Afghans, Africans and others say.

Remember most of Iranians are religious; people chose to have an Islamic government and they voted! Why couldn’t US leave us be! Because US wanted her interests back perhaps maybe US don’t want an Islamic power in the region; and so they used Saddam to invade our country.
A US cruiser shot down an Iranian civilian aircraft and then they gave its captain a medal! These kinds of gestures would disgust anyone. US openly targeted and destroyed some of our oil platforms in the gulf. US helped Saddam to get away from UN and use more sarin and mustard gas against us, why didn’t any nation not even UN, condemned his actions at the time? Perhaps because weapons market was so hot!

Yes Iran does supports groups like Hamas and Hezbollah but even UK doesn’t count Hezbollah as a terrorist group, their fighting ground was and is in Lebanon, and they don’t operate out of that. Al-Qeada is different; Iran has absolutely nothing to do with bin laden; not to mention that some believe Bin laden is a CIA agent.
Osama was fighting Russians in Afghanistan, US supported him with stingers so they could shoot down Russian helicopters, and in fact they were successful. This double policy and face shifting is a dirty quality of US government. Yeah “because Iraq was a lesser evil we helped them against a greater evil!” That’s what an American well known figure said.

Hezbollah and Hamas are not terrorists they are recognised by their people and have a country, they fight for their freedom. The term “Terrorism” is just a label that you can stick to anything as you see fit.

As if US doesn’t support Israel, this tiny country (Israel) spends 10 times more than Iran on its military. And this must be the American tax payers money that flows into Sharon’s packet, at the same time there are people dieing of hunger out there.

Did the suicide bombers existed from the beginning of Palestinian – Israeli conflict? I don’t think so. Vietnamese did use suicide attacks and they weren’t Moslems. It’s a fighting style for the weaker opponent and since the location of Israel and Palestine are close to one another they both suffer civilian casualties unlike in the case of US-Iraq war that only Iraqis are suffering civilian death tolls. Imagine a rocket lands in your home and you loose your children, relatives, home, etc in the worst way. Now you ain’t got nothing to loose, you just want revenge in any way possible.

Is killing an old man on a wheelchair along with other civilians in the vicinity by a rocket, launched from a chopper, an assassination? Or rather a massacre!?

How else can the Palestinians fight back if not using suicide attacks, before the superior military of their occupier? Yet even at this you’re nagging. Perhaps maybe you want your enemy to sit and do what you wish.

Another interesting thing is that US is like a wolf that preys on weak and injured. What was the strongest country that US fought with after the world wars?


No I don't agree with you on the playing field being equal if it came to war between the USA and Iran. Iraq was in the same boat: They were relatively up to date. Probably more up to date than Iran is now actually. It didn't go well for them at all.
Click to expand...

Iraqis didn't even fight! They didn't even fly a Mig.
I was saying that at the time Iraq invaded Iran their military equipment was new and up to date however when you invaded them they didn't have much to say.
Iran will be completely different, US has to sink submarines, shoot down fighters, defend against long range guided missiles, kill lots of fanatics in a mountainous country. Defend against waves of suicidal remote controlled speed boats; Parachute tank deployment and a lot more. By the 2008 we will even have stealth fighters. Besides all this Iran also has a much better Air defence than Iraq.

What I'm trying to say is that Iran will be a considerably harder opponent, because people support their government and their leaders unlike the case in Iraq. And remember that we have some 70 million populations, a lot of man power that is, comparing to 30 million Iraq.
 
Celestial Intellect,
Is It not ture that their are those in your government who feel repressed by the conservative Islamic "Republic"?

I feel as those Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorists, why, because they kill innocent people on purpose. The US does not seek to kill innocent Iraqi's on purpose, but guess what, thats war, innocents die. If Hamas and the like were launching strikes on military targets alone, perhaps your argument would be valid, but when they are blowing up buses to kill civilians, that Is terror.

On a side, note, Bush is not an enemy of Islam, but America is. What do I mean by that, PM me and we can discuss it.
 
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