Who is really in violation of the NPT, Iran or US
phoenix80
Banned
Ted said:Hahahaha, I haven't been on this thread in a while, but I love it already in an instant! Any thread calling Rabs a mullahs' sympathizer is fun reading. I always had my doubts about him and reckoned that his pro-US stance was mere cover!
Excuse me?!
I didnt call him a mullah sympathizer!
Whispering Death
Active member
I think Israel is going to hit Iran before the end of the year if it doesn't stop its actions. Especially if a hard-liner is ellected.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
BushWah
The NPT was discussed, enacted and placed into effect for one major reason. The 'main' super powers had come to realise that proliferation of nuclear weapons to 'unfriendly' (or) 'enemy' hands could have dire consequences for everyone else in the world.
Iran is one 'enemy' state that falls into this classification because of a stated aim of wiping Israel from the face of the earth. Iran has continued to carry out development of facilities for the production of weapons grade nuclear material without living up to the agreed upon oversight in accordance with the NPT.
:read: NOW - Iran has a real wacko in charge and there are those that would have you believe that Iran WILL NOT use nuclear weapons if they could get there hands on them.
B U L L !
The newest of these wackos has made his beliefs and aims very clear - he would strike Israel with nuclear weapons and damn to the rest of the world and he's in a position make these decisions.
:?: You can argue all you want about which country(s) are in violation of the NPT - the evidence is pretty clear, Iran has broken almost every provision of the NPT and continues to be the source of the greatest danger facing the world from the middle east.
Korea is not far behind, but doesn't appear as dangerous to the rest of the world as Iran (don't understand why).
The NPT was discussed, enacted and placed into effect for one major reason. The 'main' super powers had come to realise that proliferation of nuclear weapons to 'unfriendly' (or) 'enemy' hands could have dire consequences for everyone else in the world.
Iran is one 'enemy' state that falls into this classification because of a stated aim of wiping Israel from the face of the earth. Iran has continued to carry out development of facilities for the production of weapons grade nuclear material without living up to the agreed upon oversight in accordance with the NPT.
:read: NOW - Iran has a real wacko in charge and there are those that would have you believe that Iran WILL NOT use nuclear weapons if they could get there hands on them.
B U L L !
The newest of these wackos has made his beliefs and aims very clear - he would strike Israel with nuclear weapons and damn to the rest of the world and he's in a position make these decisions.:?: You can argue all you want about which country(s) are in violation of the NPT - the evidence is pretty clear, Iran has broken almost every provision of the NPT and continues to be the source of the greatest danger facing the world from the middle east.
Korea is not far behind, but doesn't appear as dangerous to the rest of the world as Iran (don't understand why).
phoenix80
Banned
[SIZE=-1]UK officials cleared nuclear cargo to Iran[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Iran says ready to remove UN seals from nuclear sites[/SIZE]
Because Iran is not a small country in an unimportant place.
It is a large country located in the oil rich region of the Persian Gulf. It has 60Milion people and a strong regional armed force.
It is not a country one can ignore! It has lots of influences through out the world and can shape the world order as it has done since 1979.
[SIZE=-1]Iran says ready to remove UN seals from nuclear sites[/SIZE]
Because Iran is not a small country in an unimportant place.
It is a large country located in the oil rich region of the Persian Gulf. It has 60Milion people and a strong regional armed force.
It is not a country one can ignore! It has lots of influences through out the world and can shape the world order as it has done since 1979.
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Damien435
Active member
phoenix80 said:
North Korea is in an unimportant place? Let's see, sandwhiched between China and Japan, two nations with little to no love for each other who are currently in a heated arms race that could spark the next world war, and it shares a border with a nation it has been at war with for 55 years. Small? Yes. Unimportant? No.
North Korea is a nation that is a regional power (Or it better be, everything that nation gets/produces goes straight to the military. Hence why no humanitarian aid is being sent to that nation.) In a region that has been a battlefield from the earliest days of civilization and is rich in rice. Oh, and this region of the world has a population of 1.5 billion.
You know, I hear that China and North Korea are kind of close. Obviously China is smart enough not to give Kim any major logistical support because he would put it all into the military and then invade South Korea, he's that crazy, and China does not value North Korea as an ally and a friend, it values North Korea as a buffer between itself and the Capiltalist pigs.
Phoenix, I personally think that the reason Iran is viewed as more of a threat than North Korea is because North Korea has a crazy leader (singular) and Iran has crazy leaders (plural) who are bent on the destruction of Israel and do not have a nation that is far larger and more powerful right next door whom is their only lifeline to the outside world and if not for them they would not exist. Iran does not have anyone holding them back but themselves where as North Korea has China holding them on a short leash to ensure that they don't do anything so stupid that it would provoke America into declaring war and then causing a war between two nuclear powers.
To summarize, Iran is a nation with no allies and a short temper where as North Korea is a nation with one ally and is held by that ally on a short leash. Plus war with North Korea will most likely prompt a war with China.
phoenix80
Banned
i almost agree with your post but whats your point?
Iran has Russia, Syria, India and China in her circle of allies for sure.
Look how chinese or Russians arm Iran or buy their oil!
And how EU governments have supported Iranian regime thru their filthy oil and gas deals!
Iran has Russia, Syria, India and China in her circle of allies for sure.
Look how chinese or Russians arm Iran or buy their oil!
And how EU governments have supported Iranian regime thru their filthy oil and gas deals!
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Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
Phoenix have you read Nathan Sharansky's The Case For Democracy?
phoenix80
Banned
Italian Guy said:
Yes, Doc!
How about you, did you read that Gene Sharp text on non-violences methods to defeat the dictatorships?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Sharp
''From Dictatorship to Democracy"
http://www.hermanos.org/nonviolence/dictodem.html
http://www.kinijit.org/static/GeneSharp.pdf
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Mohmar Deathstrike
Banned
Damien435 said:
Geographically, it's really more sandwiched between China and South Korea.
Although the state of war was not officially ended, I won't call whats been going on between the Koreas in the past 50 years a war. Although there have been minor deadly skirmished between the two powers over the decades.
zander_0633
Milforum Gnat
I think it is cold war Skirmishes!
Damien435
Active member
phoenix80 said:
Well, Russia, China, and France had some rather close ralations with Iraq, Russia was owed billions of dollars for weapon sales, and all three were the three largest exploitees of the Oil for Food program, what did they do about our invasion of Iraq? Nothing more than a little bickering. We are acting while they are sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
Would Iran's "Circle of allies" come to her aid if Iran was invaded by the US? Although I think that is misleading because just like Iraq an invasion of Iran would aim at removing the corrupt, oppressive leadership. Not trying to subjugate the nation under foreign rule and bring it into a new empire. I personally think that Iran's allies would prefer a more stable, open, democracy (except China and maybe Syria) over that of a dictatorship that is liked by few and holds the reigns of power very, very close to their chests.
zander_0633
Milforum Gnat
I belive that if Iran is under attack, No other country will go to it's aid. Maybe palestine
Posts are getting better
I was pleasantly surprised by the improved posts to on this thread, the more people move away from knee jerk posts the better. I do want to counter a few points made.
"Iran and North koreas leaders are crazy"
I don't know enough about about the Kim Jong Il to call him a wakko. From what media reports I have seen and the information from gathered from private sources and the internet I think he is a brutal dictator pre-occupied with self preservation. Does he pose a real threat to global security, I think so. Can he be contained until he dies, yes.
Is Ahmedinajad mad? No, what Ahmedinajad says is about Israel is irrelevant for at least two reasons. The first is that we has no real power in Iran. For those who are not familiar with Iranian politics let me explain that the expediency council calls the shots, in much the same way as multinationals, oil companies and the media run the US. Ahmedinajad is a product of a farcial model of democracy, where most of the candidates are excluded by the expediency council in much the same way as if your not in the Democratic or Republican party or don't have much money your chances of winning a seat in government are next to nothing. Second, his comments are ment for the home crowed, its only as a response to open threats of military action that his recent outbursts have been made in international forums. He is inexperienced in international politics and like Kim pre-occupied with self preservation, he only threatens the people of Iran, no one else.
What I find interesting is that Bush seems to escape the league of mad men! Here is a man that unlike the other two has invaded and occupied another country and is a real risk to global stability. He has his finger on a nuclear button and is creating more of them! An expression we use here to express surprise is "Laugh I near shat myself".
I was pleasantly surprised by the improved posts to on this thread, the more people move away from knee jerk posts the better. I do want to counter a few points made.
"Iran and North koreas leaders are crazy"
I don't know enough about about the Kim Jong Il to call him a wakko. From what media reports I have seen and the information from gathered from private sources and the internet I think he is a brutal dictator pre-occupied with self preservation. Does he pose a real threat to global security, I think so. Can he be contained until he dies, yes.
Is Ahmedinajad mad? No, what Ahmedinajad says is about Israel is irrelevant for at least two reasons. The first is that we has no real power in Iran. For those who are not familiar with Iranian politics let me explain that the expediency council calls the shots, in much the same way as multinationals, oil companies and the media run the US. Ahmedinajad is a product of a farcial model of democracy, where most of the candidates are excluded by the expediency council in much the same way as if your not in the Democratic or Republican party or don't have much money your chances of winning a seat in government are next to nothing. Second, his comments are ment for the home crowed, its only as a response to open threats of military action that his recent outbursts have been made in international forums. He is inexperienced in international politics and like Kim pre-occupied with self preservation, he only threatens the people of Iran, no one else.
What I find interesting is that Bush seems to escape the league of mad men! Here is a man that unlike the other two has invaded and occupied another country and is a real risk to global stability. He has his finger on a nuclear button and is creating more of them! An expression we use here to express surprise is "Laugh I near shat myself".
Rabs
Active member
haha please... Thats why there is oil company execs in the process of confirming our latest SCOTUS justice. Oh wait there senators. It was the oil companys that went to war in Iraq right? They planned and executed 9/11 too, those evil businesses.
giggle, I love living in a evil nation. I know you've seen the case for invadeing Iraq, and the progress that has taken place in Iraq since then. So theres really no need to go over that. I guess Blair is a mad man to for going along with Bush.
Rabs, please learn to differentiate Bush from America. It seems every time I criticize Bush and his foreign policy you take it as an attack on the US... Please make some effort question your indoctrination. In a working democracy the electorate should hold their leaders to acocunt, not worship them and equate them with nationtional values.
To help you on your way here is a little list:
America = land of the free, home of the brave, world leader in science and human rights an indipendant nation of some 280 million people or different races, cultures and lanuages
Bush = control by fear, fundamentalist christian (no to evolution!), violator of international law and human rights, a single individual who got into power by an election that would not be out of place in Iran.
To help you on your way here is a little list:
America = land of the free, home of the brave, world leader in science and human rights an indipendant nation of some 280 million people or different races, cultures and lanuages
Bush = control by fear, fundamentalist christian (no to evolution!), violator of international law and human rights, a single individual who got into power by an election that would not be out of place in Iran.
Rabs
Active member
WTF? Are you saying the American election was illegitmate. You do realize we were attacked on 9/11 right? Or was that just a plan by the American government to help the military-industrial complex.
So because I support my president I worship a a evil man?
Thats what he ran on, thats what he was elected (twice) on. Personally, I think science should be taught in the class-room not christianity.
So he doesnt give terriost arent staying in a hilton (Gitmo is pretty close) too bad.
godofthunder9010
Active member
What amuses the hell outa me is that the fact that if Al Gore had been elected and re-elected for the same 8 years worth, he could have done exactly the same things and nobody would ***** and moan about it (except the Republican Party, most likely.)