US torturing terror suspects?

Before capturing them we were trying to kill them and them us. So i dont see why torturing them is that big of a deal. To some people it is to me its not.
 
tielir999 said:
Before capturing them we were trying to kill them and them us. So i dont see why torturing them is that big of a deal. To some people it is to me its not.
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What made me somewhat baffled is the very early comment about people being treated by terrorists saying they were treat rather nicly, when truthfully these people lob everyone's head off on TV.
 
On the otherhand, there is the argument that a person will confess to anything just to stop the pain?:o I see no justification for torture by any country.

sven hassell said:
So what! War is war. Who can say that their interrogations havnt got out of hand at some point?
Torture is a tool of war.Always has been.Always will be.
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Torture has never been a tool of modern warfare. I refer you to Article 3 of the Geneva Convention and as far as US law is concerned in the 8th amendment which states that cruel and unusual punishment shall not be used against prisoners. Of course, one would be quick to point out that the US Constitution does not pertain to non-US citizens. Not to mention the "murkiness" of the phrase "cruel and unusual".
 
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Thomas Jefferson wrote in the opening of the Declaration of Independence, "all men are created equal." What gives us the right to torture other human beings?
 
Maybe because absolute power corrupts absolutely? When you are the biggest guy on the block and you no longer have any morals, you can do what you want, to who you want, when you want. So the little guys will also complain and condenm the big guy, and that is it. Until of course the little guys form a gang......
 
Welshwarrior said:
Maybe because absolute power corrupts absolutely? When you are the biggest guy on the block and you no longer have any morals, you can do what you want, to who you want, when you want. So the little guys will also complain and condenm the big guy, and that is it. Until of course the little guys form a gang......
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I will agree with this as a principal of what the US Military can or cannot do with prisoners. But its completely hypocritical for any complaints to originate from the extremist groups who have no qualms about doing really really terrible things to people they capture. Sorting out what "cruel and unusual" and "torture" equate to is the most important thing. There are many things that could be called "torture" that should be allowed.

To say that "torture is complete obsolete in modern history" is false. Technically, any method of extracting information that the prisoner is unwilling to divulge could qualify as "torture". I think that the Geneva Conventions is the only applicable rullset that can be used, yet some of that is crap that nobody adheres to anyways, quite frankly.

Still, we must be aware that the World expects a helluva lot more from the USA than they do from Extremists. We have the moral high-ground unless we surrender it.
 
I want to say that I am not against making a POW uncomfortable but torture, in my book its simplified as anything that leaves a scar or takes a life, is not acceptable for any reason. I could post up the reasons for this but I found an Army captain's paper on-line that sums it up better than I could so here it is...

http://www.usafa.af.mil/jscope/JSCOPE98/PFAFF98.htm
 
godofthunder9010 said:
I will agree with this as a principal of what the US Military can or cannot do with prisoners. But its completely hypocritical for any complaints to originate from the extremist groups who have no qualms about doing really really terrible things to people they capture. Sorting out what "cruel and unusual" and "torture" equate to is the most important thing. There are many things that could be called "torture" that should be allowed.

To say that "torture is complete obsolete in modern history" is false. Technically, any method of extracting information that the prisoner is unwilling to divulge could qualify as "torture". I think that the Geneva Conventions is the only applicable rullset that can be used, yet some of that is crap that nobody adheres to anyways, quite frankly.

Still, we must be aware that the World expects a helluva lot more from the USA than they do from Extremists. We have the moral high-ground unless we surrender it.
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To a lot of people in Europe, you have already surrendered the moral high ground and have now become the biggest bully on the block. That statement will now of course expose me to all kinds of hate posts and ridicule, but hey what are friends for?


A friend means well, even when he hurts you. But when an enemy puts his hand round your shoulder... watch out!
-- Proverbs, 27:6.
 
I think most are aware that the opinion you've mentioned is widespread. I do think that the USA is doing a lot to root out the bad things, and punish the offending parties. One sad fact of life is that wars tend to lead people to do terrible things no matter how noble or principled their leaders are. There's gonna be a few bad eggs in the mix and their going to do some things they weren't supposed to do. This is probably unavoidable. What is avoidable is any hint of encouragement by military leaders for soldiers to use torture.

My main point remains: We need to define the word torture. If we go with bulldogg's definition: "Anything that leaves a scar or takes a life." then it is 100% unacceptable. If its failing to cater to a prisoner's every need and desire, well la de frickin da!
 
G.O.T. I agree with all your points, and can relate personally to your statement, One sad fact of life is that wars tend to lead people to do terrible things no matter how noble or principled their leaders are. Those of us who have been there know how easy it is to let loose those inner devils, and give a one of the locals a good kicking when a friend has been injured or killed. It is not to be condoned of course, but it does happen. Further to the torture definition; any condition or procedure that cause's another to suffer from pain or the fear of pain?
Opinions are a bit like the weather, they change, so do not worry too much about it, you still have a lot of friends in the world.
 
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Well if people choose to hurt the weak and defenceless and people who have no relevance to what is going on, then I believe they must be punished.

I may be cruel, but I seen must before.

I have a hatred for the North Koreas.

Why should we feed people who blew up a bus full of innocent people and during the past years have been sending spies into people who have been feeding their sorry asses.

Those who commit the crime, must recieve punishment.

These terrorist are deciding the fates of many people because of "god's" will.

You know what I think we have the right to torture them because putting them in jail is too easy for them. It gives them an idea thinking that "Oh I can blow up a plane and kill a bunch of people and recieve a painless death from my miserable life, or go to jail. Its only the hard way and nothing else in deal with these scums.

These terrorist's excuse is only god, so if it is god, let us damn them from their religion so we can crush their faith and excuse in hurting others.

In war it eye for and eye, there is no concession for the enemy.

We kill them and leave their "God" to decide their afterlife.
 
Bravo Zulu for your remarks 03USMC

03USMC said:
The Washington Post does not have what one could call an unbiased journalistic view. They have made a jump without evidence what this aircraft is being used for. Why yes if its being used for by the CIA. The use must be niefrious.

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Besides if they are being transported to their home countries or countries where they are wanted for crimes. Well then thats justice.
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Bravo Zulu for your remarks 03USMC - I couldn't put it any better.

The Washington Post has an odor about it that would put a skunk to shame. Ulterior motives jump to mind for their slanted views (a nail driven into the slant would probably fall out of the hole).

The transportation of prisoners by the CIA is not real proof that prisoners are being tortured in any way, shape or form
 
essentially, torture is a two-way street, and neither end of the road is very pretty. One way, being too soft with a prisoner, will allow him to get by relatively easy, and therefore make h im unlikely to divulge any information.

Then again, if you put him through some form of abuse, he's more willing to cooperate. Problem is, it fuels the fire against the torturing country, and that nation gets screwed over in the world view as well as the mindset of the militants the country is working to eradicate.

We can't win on this one.
 
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