Thoughts on the Russo-Ukranian War?

George said:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=91ccf279683e4ef4a22769f05245fc76 Russians move weapons along Finnish border.
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I am not sure either Finland or Sweden should take Russian threats too seriously at this stage, they have shown themselves as a bit of a paper tiger and I doubt that they have the manpower or material to fight a war on multiple fronts.
If they are to join NATO then they should do it while the Russians are bogged down in Ukraine so less talking and more doing is important.

Poor old Vlad the Invader isn't as scary or liked as he thought.
 
BritinBritain said:
The Finns have already given the Russians a black eye in 1939, what with the hammering they are getting in Ukraine they must be Gluttons for punishment.
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May see a repeat of that in The Ukraine. A valiant effort with Russia eventually overwhelming them with numbers.
 
And now things get interesting...
https://www.arctictoday.com/finland-to-make-decision-on-nato-entry-in-coming-weeks-not-months/

I think it is the right move to fast track their application before Russia can disengage from the Ukraine and start dreaming up reasons why the Russian speaking populations of Finland and Sweden suddenly need protecting.

With regards to Ukraine and the continuation of this war, I would not be surprised if there is less effort in the east and the main assault comes from the south towards Kiev and Odessa, they seem to have had more success in the south and they have made major efforts to hang on to Kherson which strikes me as a good location to strike north and west.
 
There has been a fire on board the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, Moscow has admitted, with Ukraine claiming to have hit it with anti-ship missiles.


Russia's defence ministry said the Moskva missile cruiser had been badly damaged after ammunition on board was blown up in the flames.
"As a result of a fire on the Moskva missile cruiser, ammunition detonated,"


Two Ukrainian sources told Sky News the 12,500 tonne ship had been hit by anti-ship missiles launched by the Ukrainian military.

"She is on fire," one of the sources said. "The level of damage is being clarified… She is about 25 nautical miles from Snake Island."

Two Neptune missiles were used, Ukrainian media reported.

Those claims have not been independently verified.
 
BritinBritain said:
There has been a fire on board the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, Moscow has admitted, with Ukraine claiming to have hit it with anti-ship missiles.


Russia's defence ministry said the Moskva missile cruiser had been badly damaged after ammunition on board was blown up in the flames.
"As a result of a fire on the Moskva missile cruiser, ammunition detonated,"


Two Ukrainian sources told Sky News the 12,500 tonne ship had been hit by anti-ship missiles launched by the Ukrainian military.

"She is on fire," one of the sources said. "The level of damage is being clarified… She is about 25 nautical miles from Snake Island."

Two Neptune missiles were used, Ukrainian media reported.

Those claims have not been independently verified.
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There are reports that it has sunk while under tow.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europ...p-moskva-has-reportedly-sunk-in-the-black-sea

In a statement, which the BBC and CNN both reported, Russian military department said: “During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the port of destination, due to damage to the hull received during the fire from the detonation of ammunition, the ship lost stability, in the conditions of stormy seas, the ship sank.”

At the rate Putin is losing equipment he won't have enough oil to sell to replace the losses.

This was amusing..

The-Moskva-sinking-800x450.jpg
 
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It seems the Russian offensive has started. It will be interesting to see if the Russians have learned anything from the previous events.
 
CNN has Biden saying they were providing aide to improve Ukraine's bargaining position. You'd think it would be to help them win.....
 
George said:
CNN has Biden saying they were providing aide to improve Ukraine's bargaining position. You'd think it would be to help them win.....
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Realistically Ukraine can't "win" as to do so would require an ability to take the war to Russia and even if they could push Russia back to it's borders it really can't go any further.

A win for Ukraine is effectively to stop Russian advances and make it too costly to carry on which I suspect is what Biden is meaning, I personally would like to see Ukraine given the equipment to take the war into Russian territory in order to disrupt supply lines.
 
MontyB said:
Realistically Ukraine can't "win" as to do so would require an ability to take the war to Russia and even if they could push Russia back to it's borders it really can't go any further.

A win for Ukraine is effectively to stop Russian advances and make it too costly to carry on which I suspect is what Biden is meaning, I personally would like to see Ukraine given the equipment to take the war into Russian territory in order to disrupt supply lines.
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Correct.
 
George said:
Correct.
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I found these videos to be rather interesting, they are in Australian but I can translate into English for those who need it.
:)

Warning, they are fairly long.

Price of war


Price of war part 2


who is winning
 
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I just read Germany has promised to deliver their anti-aircraft vehicle to Ukraine. The only vehicle I can think of is the Geopard (Cheetah)
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
I just read Germany has promised to deliver their anti-aircraft vehicle to Ukraine. The only vehicle I can think of is the Geopard (Cheetah)
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Yep, it is the Geopard, apparently about 50 of them although I am not sure what use they would be given the limitations of the vehicle and the availability of modern ATGMs.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...ti-aircraft-weapons-to-ukraine/148401.article

I can't help but wonder if the west isn't just clearing out all it's old weapons stocks.


This is strange, surely Putin isn't stupid enough to try and expand a war when he can't win the one he already has.

Russian-occupied area of Moldova blames Ukrainian militants for explosions

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/26/1094814254/moldova-explosions-ukraine-russia

I wonder what would happen if Ukraine invited "peacekeepers" to secure the border between Transnistria and Ukraine "to ensure Ukraine can't be implicated in these accidents"?

They could be based out of Odessa, after all Russia's only objective is East Ukraine.
 
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MontyB said:
Yep, it is the Geopard, apparently about 50 of them although I am not sure what use they would be given the limitations of the vehicle and the availability of modern ATGMs.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...ti-aircraft-weapons-to-ukraine/148401.article

I can't help but wonder if the west isn't just clearing out all it's old weapons stocks.


This is strange, surely Putin isn't stupid enough to try and expand a war when he can't win the one he already has.

Russian-occupied area of Moldova blames Ukrainian militants for explosions

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/26/1094814254/moldova-explosions-ukraine-russia

I wonder what would happen if Ukraine invited "peacekeepers" to secure the border between Transnistria and Ukraine "to ensure Ukraine can't be implicated in these accidents"?

They could be based out of Odessa, after all Russia's only objective is East Ukraine.
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It seems the West does what you are saying. I didn't know the former Warsaw Pact countries which now are members of NATO still had Soviet made vehicles. I though they sold those to others.

I think we are approaching a point when NATO needs to provide with more systems made in the West. The Ukrainians are already getting training to use the artillery systems they get. The French is giving them their latest howitzer

I have an idea, why not give the Ukrainians Abrams tanks, Challenger tanks, Leopard tanks, and Leclerc tanks to see which one is the best. :smil:
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
It seems the West does what you are saying. I didn't know the former Warsaw Pact countries which now are members of NATO still had Soviet made vehicles. I though they sold those to others.

I think we are approaching a point when NATO needs to provide with more systems made in the West. The Ukrainians are already getting training to use the artillery systems they get. The French is giving them their latest howitzer

I have an idea, why not give the Ukrainians Abrams tanks, Challenger tanks, Leopard tanks, and Leclerc tanks to see which one is the best. :smil:
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The logic behind what is being given to Ukraine is fairly sound I think, essentially they are used to using Soviet equipment and the former Warsaw Pact countries have tons of it which they have upgraded, regarding armour my understanding is that it would be difficult to train Ukrainian crews to operate 4 man western vehicles as they are used to 3 man crews with autoloaders so rather than try and do a wholesale retraining in the middle of a war it makes sense to reuse old Soviet gear.

I was surprised to hear Finland has a lot of Russian equipment, it will also be interesting to see how things pan out if as predicted Finland and Sweden sign up to NATO in May.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61226640

I read somewhere that they had been offered a defense treaty by the US while the application in being ratified (Assuming Croatia don't veto it).

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/20...ition-plan-if-finland-sweden-ask-join/365826/

https://yle.fi/news/3-12418999

The move to western gear has begun in areas where little to no retraining is required such as the move from Russian 152mm to Western 155mm artillery thus making resupply a lot easier but I wouldn't expect to see Ukrainian F-35s anytime soon.
 
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