The US roll in central & south America.
03USMC
Active member
Corocotta said:
Oh you mean like ................................................................................
1. FARC
2. Sendero Luminoso
3. Tupac Amaru
4. ELN
5. Zapatistas
6. Sandanista
The US has never been the only one sponsoring Paramilitary organizations in Latin America. Look at your history.After Castro took power in Cuba he began dispatching Advisors to South and Central America to train Guerilla Forces with the aid of the Soviet Union.
When your enemy starts a fire in your backyard , you fight the fire. You don't let burn out of control.
Corocotta
Active member
03USMC said:
One thing is training and other giving list of people that should be eliminated. Chek this page and look for info: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/
03USMC
Active member
And you really believe the "other side" (read Cuba and the USSR) didn't do the same thing. That Fidel and Che didn't "suggest" that certain Political, Military and industrial leaders not be eliminated to further the "peoples cause"? That they only provided training?
Come on. Latin America was a pawn in the Cold War used by both sides equally and that includes Cuba.
Come on. Latin America was a pawn in the Cold War used by both sides equally and that includes Cuba.
03USMC
Active member
Corocotta said:
Then why is it always "The US did this. The US did that." with you?
I already made the statement that not all of the US policies in Latin America were neither noble or just or right thru out history. Many times especially in the 20's 30's and beyond protection of business interests were paramount.
Yet you seem to have been ignoring the fact that the US also reacted and continues to react to Communist sponsored groups that are funded trained and take their cue from Havanna.
Do you really think that Hugo Chavez gives tacit approval to FARC in Columbia because he's a champion of justice and nation building. Or is it the fact that his affirmed hero Castro has always supported FARC. And that the goverment of Columbia has close ties to the US?
Corocotta
Active member
No, I do not think of Chavez as a champion of justice. My "US did this" policy is due to the neccesity of critic that in my opinion must have the super-power of the moment. I was in the US once and people were so ignorant about the policy of their Goverments in the past & present that I got into shock. I understand that not all US citizens are like this, but I was impresed with the complete apathy concerning history. Just for example (and I know this is totally off topic), I was asked where I came from; i answered from Spain, and somebody said: " Oh, just below Mexico; then you came driving, right?" I said: "Right"
Redneck
Active member
I was asked if I had ever shot an Indian before when I was in Denmark, there are idiots everywhere.
And in the future it would be wise to avoid constant attacks on any one country's integrity, national intelligence, whatever else simply because you feel it is your mission to critique it. Say what you have to but it is not necessary to jump at every opportunity you see to assault the reputation of the nation of your choice.
And in the future it would be wise to avoid constant attacks on any one country's integrity, national intelligence, whatever else simply because you feel it is your mission to critique it. Say what you have to but it is not necessary to jump at every opportunity you see to assault the reputation of the nation of your choice.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
I can definitely see both sides of this firefight, erm, thread. I am an American and was shocked myself when I started to discover some of the things that have been done by our government. Not just to others but to US soldiers as well, things I wish I did not know but so be it. I understand the saying that "Ignorance is bliss" now in a way that I could never had understood before. If I could put up some of the essays in here I wrote as a senior in HS you would not recognise me from what I write today.
Having lived in other countries now for a few years and making friends with locals who are also prior service I can tell you Corocotta that Americans are not alone in their ignorance of their own countries policies and programs. Yet they are quite fluent of their major rivals faux pas. It is endemic in our world, Asia, Europe, pick a country, damn near all are guilty. How many governments will maintain their grip on power if they tell their constituants all their dirty secrets? Not many I think.
At the same time 03, Redneck, the US is a lightning rod for criticism owing to its unique status as the current lone big dog. And the fact it is the last man standing right now from the cold war the dirty laundry list is long. Holding up the rule of law and having a government that criticises other countries openly and very publicly will always draw fire and close scrutiny.
Perhaps unless the (insert any country here) citizens persuade their government to curtail their activities then "thicker skin" would be the order of the day.
And perhaps before the rest of the world hurls stones at (insert any country here) a little introspection would be in order.
In the end, we either share this planet or, as 03 said elsewhere, "Die in place".
Having lived in other countries now for a few years and making friends with locals who are also prior service I can tell you Corocotta that Americans are not alone in their ignorance of their own countries policies and programs. Yet they are quite fluent of their major rivals faux pas. It is endemic in our world, Asia, Europe, pick a country, damn near all are guilty. How many governments will maintain their grip on power if they tell their constituants all their dirty secrets? Not many I think.
At the same time 03, Redneck, the US is a lightning rod for criticism owing to its unique status as the current lone big dog. And the fact it is the last man standing right now from the cold war the dirty laundry list is long. Holding up the rule of law and having a government that criticises other countries openly and very publicly will always draw fire and close scrutiny.
Perhaps unless the (insert any country here) citizens persuade their government to curtail their activities then "thicker skin" would be the order of the day.
And perhaps before the rest of the world hurls stones at (insert any country here) a little introspection would be in order.
In the end, we either share this planet or, as 03 said elsewhere, "Die in place".
Whispering Death
Active member
Basically the relationship between American and the Central American powers is that American cleans up its own backyard. We have enough problems dealing with people 1/2 way around the world trying to kill us, much less tolerating such views not but a few hundred miles off of our boarders.
Whispering Death
Active member
Bulldog - then doesn't it stand to reason that since all countries have such "dirty laundry" as you call it, that it is a fundamental tennent of human society that through human error, ignorance, and imperfection that all a certain degree of bad actions are always going to occur in any stable system of governance. That the only government without "dirty laundry" are those who are quickly overthrown?
In that case, wouldn't it stand to evaluate a country based on how it behaves in the current day by comparing it to all the other countries in the world? For instance, the internment of Japanese citizens durring WW2 was not the correct action to take, but when you look at what was going on in other parts of the world where Germany purposely killed 6 million human beings on concentration camps, all of a sudden, Japanese internment seems more like a vacation by comparison!
True America has likely tortured terrorists in an attempt to gain operational intelligence to destroy the terrorist netowrk that is attacking her (if we haven't I'd be pissed off because that means more American citizens are dying than have to). But compared to the millions of Iraqis that where tortured and killed in the most brutal inhumane ways, America looks like a god damned saint! Add in all the horrors of the Taliban regime to that pot and you can see why almost all the people in that country view Americans as great liberators. But then again maybe you don't care, maybe you are one of the people that stalin was right about, "one man's death is a tragedy, a million men's death's are a statistic." Maybe you'll cry about one or ten tortured terrorists but not give two shits about the hundreds of thousands of innocents killed by Saddam Hussein.
After a careful study of human history you will find that there have almost never been nations that are 100% good against nations that are 100% evil. Overall America is a great nation and has been more benevolent and altruistic with its power than any other nation that has been the only superpower of its day. So if you are going to raze an entire nation to the ground over a small number of moral infractions then you had better prepare yourself to live under the rule of a nation that commits far far far more crimes against humanity because that perfect moral nation has never existed and if history is any judge, is likely to never exist.
In that case, wouldn't it stand to evaluate a country based on how it behaves in the current day by comparing it to all the other countries in the world? For instance, the internment of Japanese citizens durring WW2 was not the correct action to take, but when you look at what was going on in other parts of the world where Germany purposely killed 6 million human beings on concentration camps, all of a sudden, Japanese internment seems more like a vacation by comparison!
True America has likely tortured terrorists in an attempt to gain operational intelligence to destroy the terrorist netowrk that is attacking her (if we haven't I'd be pissed off because that means more American citizens are dying than have to). But compared to the millions of Iraqis that where tortured and killed in the most brutal inhumane ways, America looks like a god damned saint! Add in all the horrors of the Taliban regime to that pot and you can see why almost all the people in that country view Americans as great liberators. But then again maybe you don't care, maybe you are one of the people that stalin was right about, "one man's death is a tragedy, a million men's death's are a statistic." Maybe you'll cry about one or ten tortured terrorists but not give two shits about the hundreds of thousands of innocents killed by Saddam Hussein.
After a careful study of human history you will find that there have almost never been nations that are 100% good against nations that are 100% evil. Overall America is a great nation and has been more benevolent and altruistic with its power than any other nation that has been the only superpower of its day. So if you are going to raze an entire nation to the ground over a small number of moral infractions then you had better prepare yourself to live under the rule of a nation that commits far far far more crimes against humanity because that perfect moral nation has never existed and if history is any judge, is likely to never exist.
Whispering Death
Active member
bulldogg said:
Your post said something to the effect of "before one country judges another it needs to look at it's own list of wrongdoings"
I've heard that logic over and over again for why America is a horrible power. Or that all powers are equally horrible and therefore none can truely be judged.
If this was not your point then you should endevor to make yourself more clear.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Whispering Death said:
No. I abso-EXPLETIVE-lutely did not say that. You are reading into what I wrote. In no way, shape or form was it critical of any particular country.
I hate repeating myself but since you do not comprehend the message I will say it again for you.
Since this seems a bit much I will elucidate the point for you, WD. Unless the people of a country (ANY country) want to influence their leaders to pursue policies that do not run counter to their (the people) own beliefs/values/etcetera then they (the people) must learn to live with the criticism that results from those actions (their government's actions).
Now, this means that before (ANY)one criticises the actions of another country (ANY country) a person should be sure your own house (their country) is in order first. There was something like this in the christian bible, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
WD my post was an appeal to reason not blaming anyone for anything or criticising any one, place or thing. Why you posted in response is bewildering I can only make assumptions as to your motives for your argument is not based on the message I posited. Perhaps it was out of peer pressure or a need to be included, I dont know. Whereas Redneck, 03, Missileer and others on this board may have very divergent views from mine we do tend to address them logically and point by point not from supposition and inference.
Whispering Death
Active member
Redneck said:
Damn, but Bulldog was doing my therepist's job for free
