The Raising of Children

[The Other Guy]

I don't want to be the person who starts this thread, but no one else wants to start it either...

How bad is it at this point? Can parents even do anything to their kids? I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, but at least implement SOME sort of punishment.

What does everyone else think?

 

[Del Boy]

I don't want to be the person who starts this thread, but no one else wants to start it either...

How bad is it at this point? Can parents even do anything to their kids? I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, but at least implement SOME sort of punishment.

What does everyone else think?

You rascal - you've done it! You are a brave lad. As it is just about the most important we have to deal with I will go away and think.:thumb:

 

[pixiedustboo]

I don't want to be the person who starts this thread, but no one else wants to start it either...

How bad is it at this point? Can parents even do anything to their kids? I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, but at least implement SOME sort of punishment.

What does everyone else think?

I don't think the government should intervene unless the child is being abused. Spanking is not abusing...though I wouldn't be adverse to the idea that couples should perhaps have child rearing classes before giving birth. I'm not saying they'd have to rear that child by the book, but it might help some parents. I think sometimes people need to know they aren't alone in their different frustrations and not all parents want to spank a child - yet they still want them to listen and they don't know how to go about getting that result without the punishments.



I think depending on how it's used corporal punishment is a must with some kids. Time outs and little tasks don't always get the desired result. I do think however some parents are too liberal with their 'corporal' punishments and it doesn't leave the desired result if you don't back up that hand. (i.e. There is a little boy the boys are friends with who gets spanked with a wooden spoon -from what I hear- quite a bit and he is still a little brat and he doesn't listen at all. So how is spanking him helping?)

I've been babysitting for the same family for over 4 years and the parents have both given me permission to discipline as I see fit.

They are both (from things I hear from the kids) liberal in their physical punishments (spanking - never with a 'tool'). The listen to their father out of fear and the listen to their mother...ah...when she screams.

The kids are not afraid of me and I don't have to yell to get every little thing I asked them to do done. (Though I have certainly yelled at times). I have slapped one hand and one butt in 4 years.

I think sometimes a physical punishment is needed, within reason. For instance, when Connor was younger he was trying to stick the end of a spoon in a light socket. I took it away from him, he grabbed another one from the drawer and this went on three times. On the third time I slapped him on the hand. He has never tried it with me since.

It was just recently I slapped a butt (literally, one slap). Connor slammed his foot down on mine on purpose and got a smack on the behind for it. He's been doing things like that lately to his brother, Keri and sometimes to me. The time-outs weren't working. Finally I told him he does it again and he'll be getting like for like. I'll not have him being a bully.

I really think if some parents worked with their kids more, and upheld what they wanted done the first time and not the fifth, when they've lost patience and go straight to spanking that physical punishments would not be needed anywhere as much as they are used for some.

IMHO as a childless woman. lol.

 

[MontyB]

I don't want to be the person who starts this thread, but no one else wants to start it either...

How bad is it at this point? Can parents even do anything to their kids? I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, but at least implement SOME sort of punishment.

What does everyone else think?

How bad is it?

well as Hesiod said back in 700 BC[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint."[/FONT]

This statement alone would indicate that little has changed in the perception of youth throughout history.


As to whether parents an do anything about about their kids well given that they are the only ones who really can do something you would hope so.

However I don't believe that youth are the problem, I see the problem lying squarely with parents and their lack of accountability (I once spoke to a man who told me that "he could not be responsible for what his 12 year old was doing at 2am" on a school night).

I am of the opinion that if the state started putting more emphasis on making parents responsible for the actions of their children there would be much less of an issue.

 

[The Other Guy]

(I once spoke to a man who told me that "he could not be responsible for what his 12 year old was doing at 2am" on a school night).

That's really lame.

True. If something doesn't get done, don't reward the kid. And don't back down when (s)he whines and cries about it. Tough love, kid. Suck it up, and get things done the first time. Wait until you're 13, then you get more free reign.

 

[pixiedustboo]

However I don't believe that youth are the problem, I see the problem lying squarely with parents and their lack of accountability (I once spoke to a man who told me that "he could not be responsible for what his 12 year old was doing at 2am" on a school night).

I 100% agree.

And you gave a prime example of the problem!

 

[senojekips]

Corporal punishment,... Why not?? So long as the punishment fits the crime. Some people respect nothing else. Until the 1960s my state had "birching" as a standard punishment for males committing crimes involving assault and battery. It was so rare as to make the front page of the paper, now they don't even report it unless the victim looks like dying.

Every case must be judged on it's merits. Different punishments work with different kids, recently a young teen in my town was found to be stealing other kids bikes. Apparently the miscreant had ideas of using the parts to make his own bike better. He went to court, and i don't know whathe got there, but when he came home amongst other things, his father gave him a hacksaw and made him cut his own bike into pieces small enough to fit in a 1 cub ft. cardboard box. which he then threw in the rubbish collection. I think it was very fitting punishment

 

[doc]

as far as the raising of childresn goes, Im a firm believer of the biblical verse "spare the rod & hate the child" every kid needs a trip to the ole woodshed a few times if they have done somthing to merit that action.

 

[ASTRALdragon]

I 100% agree.

And you gave a prime example of the problem!

I second this. My girlfriend of 5 years tells me this almost every week and I agree with her every week because we both work with children. She's a 3rd grade teacher finishing her 3rd year and I work as a probations officer. If you instill the values and ethics in the kid early, physical punishment would never be a problem. I knew what line to cross with my parents and which one not to. I was always scared s**tless when my parents took away my Nintendo or forbade me to go to a friend's party or something.

 

[Del Boy]

Your parents obviously had the right idea and made it clear from the start what they expected of you. If they remained fair and consistent, then you knew where you stood and understood why.

I always noticed, at school, that the guys with the more violent type parents tended to be the worst behaved.

My mother-in-law, who was a firm parent who expected good behaviour, nevertheless always warned us when we became parents ourselves that the question of physical punishment had to approached very carefully indeed. As she said - you beat one devil out and two in! (she wasn't being literal - don't go there.) And as for dads, well they have to look forward to the day when they will not be able to win the physical argument. Persuasion required. Now and then I remember kidding my big boys "oh yes - well when you are big enough you will be too old (to challenge)". Not true - not even of my grandsons .

I believe that parents hold the key, which lies in the tender years, and that if you haven't passed on everything you need to by the time your children reach 18, then there is no more you can impart.

I realise well how difficult the teen years are, even amonst the best of kids, but if all else is equal, then this is a different matter, an adjustment in the relationship gradually required as the child prepares for adulthood and learns of confrontation between the best of friends, like Mum and daughter. This has become a very big problem lately because of the advancement of communication technology, the internet etc.

As Anthony Newley said " When you are the father of boys, you worry, Oh how you worry - but when you are the father of girls, you do more than that - you pray".

Parenthood is the very highest vocation.

 

[senojekips]

Consistency is a big thing with kids, they must know exactly where they stand at any given moment. They must realise the inevitability that they will be caught and what the consequences will be when it happens. No exceptions!!

I always worked on one rule regarding punishment which is the reverse of that used in our legal system. Whatever punishment was given, was the minimum, if it was not having the desired effect it would increase,... immediately, and there was no going back. There was no time off for good behaviour, because that was what was expected from the word go.

Punishment must be: Commensurate with the offense, Immediate, consistent and irrevocable.

We never got a chance to use these rules much.

 

[Del Boy]

In our house, Mum did the punishing, which invariably amounted to a good talking to, or single slap on the calf - young children. Dad was kept in reserve , to be referred to regarding a particularly serious offence. Hardly ever happened.
When Eve was a school-governor she voted for the abolition of corporal punishment. In retrospect, I would have liked the cane retained for bullying. (I was never a bully, but i got plenty of the cane at school!)

We lived in a tough part of London and this is what I told my small boys about survival as they grew.

Always choose to do the right thing.

Never worry about standing alone or being the odd man out.

If your gang of mates want to do something you know is not right, it is not weak to say - 'not for me guys, carry on without me if you are going there.' That is the tough stance and it will work.

Never,ever, bully anyone or start trouble with anyone.

If you are faced with trouble, do your best to avoid it.

If you just cannot avoid it, and someone hits you, or if you cannot persuade them not to, then always strike back twice as hard.

If you have to, get in first as hard as you can. Go in hard.

Amongst your peers, you will surely have to do this only once, because you will then be recognised as not a weak target for bullies.

Be nice!

I do not recall them having trouble they couldn't deal with. They all grew to be respected guys.


My girls I told - Always try to do the right thing.
Do not let anyone put you down. Do not put youself down.
In choosing a partner- look for a nice guy, a guy who will treat you right and see that you are treated right. A bad marriage ain't no good..

This is how it all panned out.

One eldest son with is happily married , living here in town, with five rock and roll sons 24 - 12, talented sportsmen and musicians.

One happily married son married to an Irish girl, living in Ireland, with two little daughters, who ride horses, sing and dance.

One happily married son living on the coast some 30 miles away, with 3 year old twins.

One brilliant son in law, Scots, happily married to my youngest daughter , with a beautiful grand-daughter and a very talented and loving grandson.
And what a bonus - my son in law is my mate and he loves his old Pa, Del Boy. (Ex soldier and boy-soldier- Junior leaders)

One lovely daughter who still lives with her Mum and Dad.


So that's the score. Just one man's story -- how we tried to do it , and how it seems to have worked out.

And I myself came from a broken home, lived without my mum and dad from 4-9 years, then went backwards and forwards from my mum and step-father in Scotland and my father and stepmother in London. As soon as i was able to leave school I joined the Navy. When we married (21) I didn't have a penny left in the world, and started from scratch, and now I seem to be trying to get back there!

Just demonstrates the benefit of a great wife, and how that is what counts. I believe we are naturally Matriarchal.

 

[The Other Guy]

I was always scared s**tless when my parents took away my Nintendo or forbade me to go to a friend's party or something.

True. My parents didn't scare me, but at least they acutally took things away for as long as they said they would. They've softened up for my little brother. His sentences keep getting shortened... :2guns:

I always noticed, at school, that the guys with the more violent type parents tended to be the worst behaved.

I've noticed they same thing myself. The kid whose parents settle things by yelling and getting into arguments have a tendency to be hotheads who will boil over at the slightest provocation. (I know one such example who got himself thrown off both the Baseball and Football teams.)

Whatever punishment was given, was the minimum, if it was not having the desired effect it would increase,... immediately, and there was no going back. There was no time off for good behaviour, because that was what was expected from the word go.

and that is almost exactly how I would raise my kids. Whining gets you more of a penalty.

 

[Del Boy]

They've softened up for my little brother. His sentences keep getting shortened...

He-he. Yep, that's the way it goes. First child has to blaze the trail, parents get a little more experienced and relaxed as they go along. Also, if the eldest child gets the message and is a good role model, the younger siblings often follow suit, although, of course, each one is very different in detail; I think that the eldest child is very influential .

 

[The Other Guy]

He-he. Yep, that's the way it goes. First child has to blaze the trail, parents get a little more experienced and relaxed as they go along. Also, if the eldest child gets the message and is a good role model, the younger siblings often follow suit, although, of course, each one is very different in detail; I think that the eldest child is very influential .

Yeh, he wants all the freedoms of being a teenager while still having the responsibilities of a first grader. It's a tad annoying

 

[ASTRALdragon]

As Anthony Newley said " When you are the father of boys, you worry, Oh how you worry - but when you are the father of girls, you do more than that - you pray".

Lol memo to self: don't have daughters...

 

[Del Boy]

Aah. But you see, daughters grow to be the greatest consolation to Dads. The old saying is that a son is a son until he gets a wife, but a daughter is a daughter for all of your life. Daughters are a great treasure indeed. Look, I'm almost 73 - it's 2 am - and my youngest daughter has just rang for a long late night chat. What more could a man ask for? Priceless.

Your daughters will keep their children so close to you, and grandchildren bring you the most surprising love and affection of all . Remember where you first heard it, your grandchildren will warm the cockles of your heart and make it all worthwhile.

I believe they represent the measure of a man's contribution to the human race.

Wow! Who started this thread and got me going. TOG again! I'll shut up now unless I'm asked something.:cheers:

 

[The Other Guy]

Now aren't I the devil? :angel:

 

[Del Boy]

Damn - you've asked me a question! The answer is Yes, I have often thought so. Bit of a bright spark I'd say. :thumb:

 

[doc]

I second this. My girlfriend of 5 years tells me this almost every week and I agree with her every week because we both work with children. She's a 3rd grade teacher finishing her 3rd year and I work as a probations officer. If you instill the values and ethics in the kid early, physical punishment would never be a problem. I knew what line to cross with my parents and which one not to. I was always scared s**tless when my parents took away my Nintendo or forbade me to go to a friend's party or something.

all time oyut and grounding did to me as a kid was give me alotta time to think up how not to get caught again... the times I got my butt kicked I sure didnt do it again... and well... if I did it only took a time or two more before I learned my lesson lol.