The next Arab-Israeli war

[senojekips]

Israel is stomping all over other peoples ground. I really don't think they have the means to keep pushing in the direction they are going. Yes they have a well trained military but what happens when the entire middle-east comes down on their heads?

Israel is only able to do as they do because of US backing. The country itself is small and totally lacking in virtually all the basic needs to fight any kind of protracted war. They face widely dispersed and loosely allied enemies with huge disposable incomes, and not insignificant armed forces, and last but not least, that basic necessity of all wars, fuel. There are far too many of them for Israel to be able to mount surprise attacks on all of them.

I have no doubt that the US administration is perfectly aware of the fact that the Zionists despise them, but are not willing to say so whilst they need the money and support the US provides. It can't go on for ever, and the moment it stops all hell is going to break loose in the middle east. If Israel decides to use their nuclear prerogative, they will make virtually every source of oil in the middle east into a radioactive desert.

Then the energy wars will start,... in short, We'll all be fcuked.

More likely, I feel that someone is going to have to wake up and tell Israel to pull their bloody heads in and go back to square one, as the alternative is just not viable for anyone. Eventually,the land will have to be returned to it's rightfull owners, because the Arabs are not going to give up unless we murder every single one of them, and that's just not going to happen.

 

[O.W.E.G.]

Look for America not the people the government they have to keep us (the arabs) weak and divided because if we r to be united in one country obviously we have more than half the oil in the world and a large manpower capability and we have lots of riches in metals especially we have riches in the niles good soil so we have to be divided and weakened and that is israel job ofcourse with direct u.s. backing

 

[USRedLeg]

History Lesson On Israels Land

More likely, I feel that someone is going to have to wake up and tell Israel to pull their bloody heads in and go back to square one, as the alternative is just not viable for anyone. Eventually,the land will have to be returned to it's rightful owners, because the Arabs are not going to give up unless we murder every single one of them, and that's just not going to happen.

Go back to square one? Arabs were not even a people until about 600 AD when the Koran was written. That puts them at about 1400 years old. The temple mount where the whaling wall still stands is circa 2500 to 3000 years old. It was built by the Jews and is still our most holy place today. This places us in Jerusalem well before the Arab faith existed.

Just a quick question but is Jerusalem mentioned once in the Koran? Didn't think so.

So I guess my question was who were the rightful owners you spoke of again? It sounds to me like the land was taken by force from the Jews. How is that any different then it being taken back from the Arabs by force?:crybaby:

All I know is when a war does kick of between Israel and any Arab nations you will see me drop an ETS packet from the US Army and go to Israel. See you there, again, Egypt.

P.S. All those who have gone to Iraq, where I happen to be now. It to was first inhabited by Jews.

 

[senojekips]

Go back to square one? Arabs were not even a people until about 600 AD when the Koran was written.

Ahhhh,.... we have another ardent scholar of the "Jewish" version of history it seems? I think that you'd better sit down have a read of some facts and start again.

Etymology of the word Arab
The earliest documented use of the word "Arab" as defining a group of people dates from the 9th century BC in Assyrian records which describe the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula

Arabia was the first place inhabited by man outside of Africa over 100,000 years ago these are the antecedents of the Arabs, who spread north from Arabia and occupied the area now so conveniently claimed as being given to the Jews by "God". The Jews, like all non Africans ultimately descended from those who are today, called Arabs. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110127141651.htm

But if you want to go down the Jewish history track,... According to Rabbinical Law The Seder Olam Rabbah (ca. 2nd century CE) determines the commencement of the Exodus to 2448 AM (1312 BCE). This date has become traditional in Rabbinic Judaism.. We are in the Jewish year 5770 which taking into account the shorter Jewish year, that takes their beginnings back to only about 3700BC. So, whatever way you go, the Jews were very late arrivals in what is now claimed as Palestine by their own admission.

Personally, I would rather believe what is known as a result of archeological findings, but either way, by Jewish figures, the "Arabs" occupied the area a minimum of 7000,.... and by archeological evidence, maybe as much as 100,000 years before the Jews ever came on the scene.

So let's start again, this time using facts instead of quasi religious mumbo jumbo dreamt up by some Hebrew "scholar"

 

[USRedLeg]

Correct, my bad on the Arab comment. It is the Islamic faith that is post dated to the Jewish faith. And, once again in the writings of Mohammad, also know as the Qur'an, there is no mention Jerusalem. I find it interesting that so many Arab people of the Islamic faith say that it is their holy land and they deserve it back. Also, interestingly enough, is it not the truth that a large majority of Arab historians would deny the Holocaust ever happened? Everyone's history is slanted slightly, that would include yours as well. The truth is more then likely somewhere in the middle.

Just a quick question but being that you are from Arab roots, just guessing since you do not look African from your picture. Maybe, Arabs should have a claim to your land based on the lineage. Land is taken and held by force. Throughout history land has been taken from people and occupied. While we are at it, the Indians in America are pissed about being pushed west. We should probably give them their land back to. But then again they don't have nukes. Yea we should be gutless sense Arabs got the bomb. What a way to act.

 

[senojekips]

Correct, my bad on the Arab comment. It is the Islamic faith that is post dated to the Jewish faith. And, once again in the writings of Mohammad, also know as the Qur'an, there is no mention Jerusalem. I find it interesting that so many Arab people of the Islamic faith say that it is their holy land and they deserve it back.

Of course it is their land, absolutely any way you care to look at it.

(1) They were there long before the Jews ever arrived.
(2) The Jews were only ever a small minority in the area until 1947-48.
(3) The vast majority of Jews had lived in Europe for 1200 years, and previous occupation is not a legitimate excuse to throw people off their land. Try going back to the homeland of your forebears and throwing the present owners of the land occupied by your forefathers and see what happens. Try just going back to the house you lived as a kid and moving in,... The whole concept of previous occupation is childishly simplistic.
(4) The UN had no right to give their land to another people. After all, the Brits who were in charge of the Palestinian Mandate, had promised it to the occupants (Palestinians) in return for their help in WWI
(5) The days of Armed expansionism are 100 years gone. At the time when the Zionists were taking over Palestine virtually every other country in the world was looking at returning colonised lands to their original owners.

The Jews base their claims on religious mumbo jumbo written by Jewish scholars, that the land was promised to them by their god, ... How very convenient. What do you think would happen to me if I stole all your belongings and told the police that they were promised to me by my god? They'd have me slammed up and call for a psychiatric assessment before I knew what had happened, so you can forget the religious crap, it just doesn't hold water.

Even David Ben Gurion said,- “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel.
It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” Source: http://thinkexist.com/quotation/if-i-were-an-arab-leader-i-would-never-sign-an/347288.html

 

[MontyB]

Correct, my bad on the Arab comment. It is the Islamic faith that is post dated to the Jewish faith. And, once again in the writings of Mohammad, also know as the Qur'an, there is no mention Jerusalem. I find it interesting that so many Arab people of the Islamic faith say that it is their holy land and they deserve it back. Also, interestingly enough, is it not the truth that a large majority of Arab historians would deny the Holocaust ever happened? Everyone's history is slanted slightly, that would include yours as well. The truth is more then likely somewhere in the middle.

Just a quick question but being that you are from Arab roots, just guessing since you do not look African from your picture. Maybe, Arabs should have a claim to your land based on the lineage. Land is taken and held by force. Throughout history land has been taken from people and occupied. While we are at it, the Indians in America are pissed about being pushed west. We should probably give them their land back to. But then again they don't have nukes. Yea we should be gutless sense Arabs got the bomb. What a way to act.

So it is your contention that if you want land you should just take it and as long as have the bomb it is perfectly all right, I guess you should hope that the Native Americans don't have a nuclear physicist and he isn't reading this.

However I guess we should all have the bomb to protect ourselves, I doubt New Zealand needs many, Australia is a big piece of rock so they will need quite a few, Iran and Egypt are quite big as well so they will want a few, North Korea can just borrow China's and Syria I guess Iran can send them a couple seems its MAD gone mad, but then it does justify every country on the planet getting them and it is especially refreshing to see an American supporting North Korea and Iranian nuclear ambitions.

I also find it amusing you seem to be basing your argument on the Qur'an which from what I read studying for this topic doesn't have the word "Arab" in it, interestingly enough the chunk of rock that we now call Israel appears to have been an Egyptian province well before the Exodus so I guess they have a strong claim as well

Some days I just love these idiotic threads where jingoism over rides common sense it adds something to the morning.

 

[senojekips]

There's one major problem in using the MAD defence with the Muslims.

The Muslim world is enormous, Israel is merely a dot. (<8000 sq miles). It would only take one fanatic, who was willing to take the Israelis up on their offer, and it would be all over for Israel, and if past history is anything to go by, that is a distinct possibility.

 

[MontyB]

There's one major problem in using the MAD defence with the Muslims.

The Muslim world is enormous, Israel is merely a dot. (<8000 sq miles). It would only take one fanatic, who was willing to take the Israelis up on their offer, and it would be all over for Israel, and if past history is anything to go by, that is a distinct possibility.

But it is the idiocy of the "we took the land and have nukes so we are right" argument, in the end it leads to everyone needing these weapons to defend themselves and that includes all those dodgy dictatorships that we argue shouldn't have them.

It seems to me that some of the people who argue that Islam hasn't evolved from the 7th century are still fighting 9th century Crusades themselves.

 

[benaakatz]

the jewish people have every tight to self determination.

so do the palestinian people.

simply put, it's a conflict between right and right

therefore the land has to be divided between the two parties.

this is the international consensus.

it's pretty simple really.

by the way, the here is the European Union's definition of antisemitism:

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self*determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

 

[senojekips]

No Ben we've been through all this before. It's a conflict between a greedy occupier backed by the most powerful country in the world and an tribal society who are only allied in their hatred of that occupier.

Why do the Zionists have a "right" to self determination. What comes next,... do the Methodists of the world have a right to self determination? Or the Pigeon Fanciers, or the Ford Car Club? No!

If you really want to hear someone compare the Israelis and their supporters to the Nazis, watch and learn from a man who knows.

Dr. Hajo Meyer Auschwitz Survivor

 

[MontyB]

the jewish people have every tight to self determination.

so do the palestinian people.

simply put, it's a conflict between right and right

therefore the land has to be divided between the two parties.

this is the international consensus.

it's pretty simple really.

by the way, the here is the European Union's definition of antisemitism:

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self*determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

I will agree with you and go one step further by saying all people should have the right of self determination however that does not mean all people have the right to their own country, self determination (in political terms) only gives people the right to choose their form of government or political status without outside influence it does not mean that every minority group gets their own country.

In the case of Israel/Palestine you are right the area will have to be shared but given that neither side is negotiating sincerely the only way an agreement will be reached is when neither side has the will to fight on and without a lot more death and destruction this will never happen, but something you should understand is that the Palestinians have no reason to make peace as they have nothing to lose.

As for who is and who isn't anti-semetic well given that the term itself has been hijacked to mean solely anti-Jewish even though Semetic people include most of the middle eastern people (including Arabs and Jews) I personally think that argument is without merit.

 

[benaakatz]

Joe, are you really prepared to label all of the 5 and a half million Israeli Jews as Nazis deserving death?

This seems to be your conclusion

It is a dangerous road to go down, claiming all of group x is evil. It does not apply to the Israeli-palestinian conflict

 

[senojekips]

Joe, are you really prepared to label all of the 5 and a half million Israeli Jews as Nazis deserving death?

This seems to be your conclusion

Where have I ever said that or anything even approaching it? You are using the usual ploy used by the pro Zionists (among others) of dramatically over stating the case. You attempt portray anyone who presents a logical case against you as being a rabid "hater" or more usually an anti semite, a name that has become largely irrelevant as a result of this behaviour.

Did you actually take the time to view the video clip I posted about Dr, Meyer, an Auschwitz survivor? Would you accuse him of advocating the death of half a million Israeli Jews?

It is a dangerous road to go down, claiming all of group x is evil. It does not apply to the Israeli-palestinian conflict

Well, as I said I never said anything vaguely like that so, no, it's not dangerous for me, and secondly why does it not apply that one or more of the groups is evil? I would definitely call theft, beatings, social exclusion, disenfranchisement and murder of any group, evil.

 

[84RFK]

Joe, are you really prepared to label all of the 5 and a half million Israeli Jews as Nazis deserving death?

This seems to be your conclusion

It is a dangerous road to go down, claiming all of group x is evil. It does not apply to the Israeli-palestinian conflict

Maybe if Joe was the leader of a Islamic republic run by muslim clergy and void of any democratic ideas...but most people (including the majority of Joe's) would find that idea ridiculous.

In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict there's no good-side, or bad-side, though there's plenty of evil to be found on both sides.

The peacefull solution to that conflict died with Count Bernadotte on Hapalmah Street in 1948.
I guess someone didn't like the idea of a peacefull solution..

 

[Korean Seaboy]

Israel should have the right to be a nation (and a Jewish country if it chose so), but it has no right to occupy Gaza and the West Bank, not to mention Palestine. That's my position, the reasons are plentiful

 

[84RFK]

Israel should have the right to be a nation (and a Jewish country if it chose so), but it has no right to occupy Gaza and the West Bank, not to mention Palestine. That's my position, the reasons are plentiful

Still there's the paradox of being a Theocracy and still claiming the status of a Democracy..
And the risk of turning into an Apartheid-state is imminent, unless they find a way to solve the problem of the occupied territories infested with non-jews.

 

[AtticStatic]

1- when is this war going to happen?

2- which Arab countrys will participate?

3- how will it go?

1) Its not going to happen today. Certain pieces of land seem to have a history of ownership conflicts. We won't see an end to this situation in our lifetimes. There will continue to be skirmeshes and occasional "incidents". Israel will continue the standoff, one day at a time, well into the future.

2) How many Arab nations opened their doors to take in Palestinians when they were displaced? How many open their doors now? There is a lot of anti-Israel rhetoric because it is popular. Talk is cheap. War is costly. Who stands to gain from a war with Israel? No nation stands to gain as much as Israel is prepared to loose.

3) Israel's threat to "take it all the way" is really the only way it can go, the way the cards are now. And even if Israel is eventually cornered and launches spoil-sport nukes, that still won't be the end; only the end of the ten-thousandth chapter of this story.

 

[Prapor]

1) Its not going to happen today. Certain pieces of land seem to have a history of ownership conflicts. We won't see an end to this situation in our lifetimes. There will continue to be skirmeshes and occasional "incidents". Israel will continue the standoff, one day at a time, well into the future.

2) How many Arab nations opened their doors to take in Palestinians when they were displaced? How many open their doors now? There is a lot of anti-Israel rhetoric because it is popular. Talk is cheap. War is costly. Who stands to gain from a war with Israel? No nation stands to gain as much as Israel is prepared to loose.

3) Israel's threat to "take it all the way" is really the only way it can go, the way the cards are now. And even if Israel is eventually cornered and launches spoil-sport nukes, that still won't be the end; only the end of the ten-thousandth chapter of this story.

1) Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt.

3) Don't talk like a tough guy. Israeli army is not tough. No offense, but after I've seen the movie 'Budrus', I know it.

Attacking unarmed women...

PATHETIC.

Yes, I am not hypocrite. We have people like that in Russia too. Yuri Budanov, the former 'officer', raped and killed a little Chechen girl. But, here is difference, this is how he ended up

Real men (not all of them Chechen either) found him and had their way with him. We have justice, we have honor.

In Israel though, the men who beat women, girls, with sticks, are praised as heroes.

Yes, I'll probably get some nasty messages from admins for this post. But, I had to say what i did. I am sorry if it offends someone. It is the truth.

 

[84RFK]

Well Prapor.

You must remember that IDF is a conscript army, including whatever rotten apples you may find in any population in any given country.
There are bad-people, and there's good-people, and there's no way we can sort them out.
The IDF have extremely capable units, just as good and maybe even better than many, and there's regulars with different standards.
The main problem I suppose is that they have grown up in a state where peace have never existed, and they've been told time and time again that they are fighting with their back against the wall, or the sea in this case.
And that their enemy is "children of a lesser God" doesn't make the situation better.

There are examples of IDF elite troops who have failed miserably, and there's examples where IDF reservists has performed beyond their theoretical capabilities.

The problem is not so much the people, as the ideology behind their actions.
The state of Israel is a fact, and it will be for all forseeable future, but in order for Israel to prosper they will be forced to solve problems within their own borders some day.