The Killing of al-Qaeda's No. 3: Does It Matter? (Time.com)

Location Location Location, you can take advantage of many people, in the right place, at the right time with faith.

Also, the war on terror cannot be viewed as a war on Islam, so choosing a strategy for the theater of operations involving religious motivators kinda tangles with that.
 
Islam have inside it a powerful anti-terrorism doctrine.

You bring a Muslim scholar saying that "for god ; killing an innocent is like killing the whole mankind" and such quotes (they are plenty in fact) and you will win some hearts and minds...

And if you play your cards right, you can use the Muslim military doctrine (they have very wise rules for warfare) to build a real military to take over the fight. Not a military motivated by money or power, but by sense of duty...

I really think that it's a whole world the military strategist ignore...
 
Duh they use Islam to advocate their goals, with a largely uneducated mass they pretty much in the absence of the coalition can get away with it, and did.
 
LeMask said:
Maybe not on Afghanistan, but when I travel, I take the time to learn about the local culture... By curiosity.

And some soldier are so young, you cant label them as "scholars" even if they took the time to read on these subjects...

You need time to process the knowledge you read... And it takes experience and practice to be able to make bridges between theory and reality.

If they had the chance to go through college before joining the military to learn how to learn... I might believe you.

How many soldiers in Astan who speak the local languages you know? How many can intervene with the locals without an interpreter? How many can understand when the interpreter is accurate or not?

And how can you understand the culture if you cant live with the people there or just speak their language?

And how many of US soldiers is an expert in Islamic laws to negotiate with the locals using terms they might accept?

I'm sure even the white collars in the Pentagone dont have this knowledge...
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Look Dip s*** no one is asking a 19 year old Private to be a "scholar" and a little jag off that thinks they should be is living on a freakin cloud, say hi to your nieghbors. What they are asked to do is learn about the culture so they don't make a major f*** up and screw things up.

What you read and what you live are two different things. Living it speeds it up at light speed, but you wouldn't know that.

Most of the college educated individuals I have met are less likely to connect with rural folks than Spc Skippy who grew up on a farm and has an HS diploma. Higher Education in an H&M mission is way down on the list. But never having been there you wouldn't know, now would you?
How many speak the language? Why do you think we carry local Terps with us you silly f***? On every patrol on every mission and go to great lengths to protect them? Riddle me that a***ole.

Experts on Sharia law? Da f***! You realize we have Islamic Chaplins? We make contact with the Imams? We are breifed on local customs? We have local advisors? And we have experts on Sharia Law at higher that can advise who are members of the US or ISAF? Do realize this dumbf***?

You need to to STFU about **** you have no clue about,
 
No need to be a jerk 03. You really need a hug buddy.

It's exactly what I said. You are so over protective with your fellow soldiers that you get all excited, repeat exactly what I say and call me names in the process...

And I wont shut up. I trust your ability to win battles, but the day you will be winning wars, I will trust your knowledge and discipline...

No smoke without fire buddy... And you should chill... always getting hysterical.
 
LeMask said:
No need to be a jerk 03. You really need a hug buddy.

It's exactly what I said. You are so over protective with your fellow soldiers that you get all excited, repeat exactly what I say and call me names in the process...

And I wont shut up. I trust your ability to win battles, but the day you will be winning wars, I will trust your knowledge and discipline...

No smoke without fire buddy... And you should chill... always getting hysterical.
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Actually I think that you also need a reality check. The soldiers on the ground live this day to day, many are on the second, third or fourth tours, as such have built up a wealth of experience in dealing with local Afghans, their culture and customs - hard won experience.

Every soldier deploying is given the best information available, as well as being able to draw on the experience of their fellow soldiers.

This is a long process, one that I don't think the western civilisations have the stomach for, we are too used to instant gratification, bad guys dead and every thing neatly solved by the end of the book or movie. The boys and girls on the ground know the reality, whether they want to be there or not, they are doing what they can - this includes local infrastructure projects, fostering relations and building trust. In case you hadn't noticed, these things take time.

Is the current strategy helping this - I don't think so, but then Afghanistan has always been a knotty problem, with complex personal, familial, tribal, ethnic (& linguistic) complications, exacerbated by religious dogma & protocol, geographic isolation, as well as a well defined sense of honour & right and wrong - this is a place where "vendetta" is part and parcel of life. We need to acknowledge that the Afghan value system is different to ours in the west, especially in the media - then maybe the public percption will acknowledge that having invaded we in the West have assumed a moral obligation - like it or not & in the Afghan eyes we are not living up to that obligation - regardless of the cost!
 
And excuse me mate, it took them how many years to learn that? 9 years?

Where were you when they were bombing the country and doing "collateral damage" in a country where killing someone sends the whole tribe in the path of war?

Okay, I should blame the military doctrine rather than the individual soldier, or you will get mad at me...

But a lot of mistakes happened because they gave nice general Uniforms to half-wits... All this shock & awe tactics, billions of dollars, all these dead soldiers... And poor results.
Ben Laden is still enjoying life, terrorism is spreading, everybody hates the US and no sign of peace in the horizon...

And you always seem to respect the dead soldiers, but you dont make the effort of pulling conclusions from their deaths... No no, just let more die, we will honor their bodies and keep going... everyone is happy...
 
LeMask said:
And excuse me mate, it took them how many years to learn that? 9 years?

Where were you when they were bombing the country and doing "collateral damage" in a country where killing someone sends the whole tribe in the path of war?

Okay, I should blame the military doctrine rather than the individual soldier, or you will get mad at me...

But a lot of mistakes happened because they gave nice general Uniforms to half-wits... All this shock & awe tactics, billions of dollars, all these dead soldiers... And poor results.
Ben Laden is still enjoying life, terrorism is spreading, everybody hates the US and no sign of peace in the horizon...

And you always seem to respect the dead soldiers, but you dont make the effort of pulling conclusions from their deaths... No no, just let more die, we will honor their bodies and keep going... everyone is happy...
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Disagree, honour the fallen, protect the living. So the system promotes half wits? I don't think so, unfortunately your questions are not actually aimed at the military, which is enforcing policy, but at the politicians - who set policy. That is not to say that your average squaddie is an automaton, but the the boys and the girls on the ground have to play by a set of rules and are moved to achieve strategic objectives, hopefully.

I am not in a position to influence, having retired from the heady heights of logistics to assume my current mantle as Armchair General Extraordinaire. Once my bs talents are revealed I will have news agencies beating a path to pay me butt loads of money. Until that day I will rest on my experience, knowledge and the experiences of my comrades.

Lose a soldier and you die a little, kill a civilian and you die a lot. The troops aren't out to get the civilians, yes some get in the crossfire, but it is the remote, my boots are clean soldiers, controlled by armchair generals (much like myself), who treat war as the next best thing to COD, who are the problem. The system is the problem, not the men and women who serve under that system.

I suggest that you check fire and reconsider your targets.
 
You know, when you blame the system, they tell you that it's the individuals... That if we change anything, the whole world would collapse...

And when you blame the individuals, they tell you it's the system...
 
LeMask said:
No need to be a jerk 03. You really need a hug buddy.

It's exactly what I said. You are so over protective with your fellow soldiers that you get all excited, repeat exactly what I say and call me names in the process...

And I wont shut up. I trust your ability to win battles, but the day you will be winning wars, I will trust your knowledge and discipline...

No smoke without fire buddy... And you should chill... always getting hysterical.
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Your last tour in a hot zone was when? Next time you even have the thought cross your rabbit ass mind to tell me or any other person who's been there to chill, choke yourself Dippy.

Your mental masturbation on this subject is flawed from the jump. You don't understand the dynamics that have to be dealt with, you don't understand the training, and you don't understand the application your reality is fueled by dip **** journos who write from Bagram and Khandahar and Islamabad with out ever once leaving the wire.

Wars are won by attrition and some times that takes time and changes in tactics.

You're spouting off about things you have no clue about....again.
 
03, let me explain a little thing to you my arrogant little friend...

The honest "hot zone" I've been in is a place where I was told to stay on the roads because they may be bandits (desert area)...

But let me tell you one thing, sometimes, being outside the action gives you a wonderful vantage point to observe.

Let say that today, you are named as a judge. They bring you a criminal. He stole a car. What kind of sentence would you give him?

But what if it was your car that was stolen?
If you had any skills to be a judge, you would give the file to someone else. Because you are no longer impartial.

The training you are talking about is maybe the root of the problem... Maybe that you are silent and that's the training that is speaking...

They train you with military docrines made to crush the Soviets... And they send you to a "hot zone" and you do what you are trained to do... All convinced that it's the right thing to do...

Attrition you say? Let me tell you one thing. Siege warfare is so yesterday... Are you waiting for the enemy's Aks to rust? Now, that smart... They will be shooting at you with rusty AKs then...

You think that by killing people you will solve anything? They will just hire more in some Madrassa in Pakistan... You can kill them, they will keep coming...

We will see who will fall because of attrition, the guys with rusty AKs or GI Joe and his high tech toys and silly politics...
 
Stop attacking Coalition service men and women who are engaged there, and say something that makes sense, No, any able minded adult would not like the idea of anti establishment trends.No the world is not going to spout rainbows and the bad people are not bad just due to the mere existence of any world government. Insurgencey in the area will not just disappear, and No ,they all will not make peaceful recognition of basic human wisdoms that you claim to have mentioned earlier, and the situation will be diffused.

But mainly stop attacking those that keep people like me safe. I am extremely grateful for that and do not need a intellectual beat down on why they apparently are the most unprofessional and clueless minded people in our society, buddy, cause even I know, that just ain't the case.
 
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Little? Little friend? Arrogant?

Number one **** stain I'm not your ****in friend, I'd leave your stupid ass to die in an unsavory place and not think twice about it.

Your hot zone means exactly **** if you're not totin a rifle or actually taking rounds you pouge, going to the third world does not equate combat or combat operations you silly video game playing jag off.


Crush the Soviets? You stupid ****. Cold war training weny out in freakin 92 LIC is the standard training in the military now. If your silly ass knew half as much as you think you do you be a 20 star freakin general. But since you have never manned the **** up and enlisted , there sissy pants you wouldn't know, would you?

Your opinion amounts to the same thing as when you opined that body armor you saw a freakin video game would work. You silly stupid jag off.

Oh yeah and I ****in Hate You
 
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OK, now we've aired our feelings, what about the subject - sh!++iest job in the world has to be No3, 'cos you're doomed, but how do you move to be no2?
 
Take your happy pills 03, you are starting to call names again...
Oh, I have to enlist now to be able to speak... yeah yeah, I know that the world is complex and that it's a whole art/discipline...

But the whole system isnt working so good... All your military doctrines evolved from that. You arent so good in a fight against peasants with rifles and IEDs... All these expensive high tech toys, all these strong men... and you put an idiot in charge (like Bush)... Way to go.

And you talk to me about honor and respect... And yet, you follow stupid orders in the name of military discipline.

The guy who gives orders to your superior's superior is a civilian... I dont see you telling him to enlist...

And i dont care about how you understand things, you are silly... I said that I saw in a video game that body armor was used with additional plates and that it was new to me. I dont wear body armor to get to the office you jerk... So I get my info where I find them.

If it was a movie or a documentary it would still be an untrustworthy source of information, but it always a way to learn that there is tools like that.

And you are a coward sir. Because you dont have the balls to face reality. You are here spreading lies about me. I know what I said and it's not what you said...

And by the way, they train tankers and pilots in "video games", just that they call them "simulators". You are really wrong if you think that "video games" show nothing... And I'm not even a big gamer... Weird how tags stick to your forehead when you are dealing with people full of prejudice and arrogance...

And I would rather fight for my life alone than need an arrogant brute like you. Go to hell. Dont you have a flag to worship or something? Just insulting people...

edit:
On topic:
You can kill as many terrorists as you want. There is so much **** going on in this world... So much poverty and injustice... And people lost faith in life. They rather take their chances in the afterlife...

Go ahead, kill terrorists... But as long as I'm concerned it's a stupid war against poverty and lack of education. And it's cheaper to build schools.
But some people prefer to drop million of 100k $ bombs all over the place...

The military cant do anything really useful in this fight... They dont have the skills or just the freedom to act... And they are trained, equipped and supposed to do a different job. Waging war on poor people and crazy extremists isnt part of it.
 
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It was not poor farmers from Afghanistan, which scattered death and destruction in Manhattan on Sept. 11. The terrorists were young, educated men from middle class homes in the Middle East. Mobile phones, credit cards, Western languages, modern dress and casual types, all that they shared the with us. They were at home in the modern world, whether they stayed in Europe, America or the Middle East. In my opinion, it´s simply empirically incorrect to say that poverty and distress allways begets terror. Even the United States can foster terrorists as we saw in Oklahoma. The global gap between rich and poor is not a part of the front in the war against terrorism and therefore it is highly unlikely that more foreign aid and education could prevent future terrorism.

If the current war against terrorism is to bring peace to Afghanistan then it requires more than removing the Taliban which in itself is a daunting task. Do you have patience, insight and willingness to establish a reconciliation government in Kabul? What do we do if the Taliban reorganize itself and leads a guerrilla war against the new regime in Kabul? We don´t want a long presence in the country, but can we pull ourselves out as the USSR did? The Russian experience should make it chill down the spine of everyone. And what do we do if Pakistan continues its destabilization of Afghanistan to defend its regional interests? Pakistan will continue to have a strategic interest in a weak, controllable regime in Kabul, which can be used to maintain pressure against India in Kashmir. When the front of the war against terrorism moves to a new area then it is feared that the Afghans again will fall victim to regional powers.
 
Micha, I agree with you on some things, but what about these conclusions girl? Come on, think again please.

The guys who did the attacks werent poor farmers from Afghanistan? So what are they doing in Afghanistan? No, not playing stupid. But if this is domestic terrorism, why arent they bombing Oklahoma?

If these attacks came from religious nutjobs, they would NOT do so much effort, to train, hijack planes and land on the Pentagon and the WTC.
The whole message is here, it's an attack against the world economic system and the military forces defending it.

And of course it was not some poor farmers, these guys are helpless... Not capable of doing anything. they would be happy with some food on the table.

But not the elites. No ma'am. Their mastercards cant buy them what they really lack in their lives... They want justice. They want respect. And too bad, they feel humiliated and abused... And if they are extremist, they will take the easy way... Violence against weak targets, terrorism.

And it's not new. Who invented all these socialist/marxist/communist doctrines? Some illetrate farmer? no, it's was the sons of the elite. They made the doctrines and others followed it... And you know how these movements are unpredictable and dangerous.

It's the same human nature and it just gave a different soup because it was using different ingredients.

We know that the economy is unfair and that the politics are corrupt to the bone... We know this for sure, but we dont act about it, because we are afraid...

believe it or not, but we gave the terrorists a righteous cause... Even with their horrible means to fight, they get public support. It's crazy...

I'm against governments, I see the world in a matter of people. I just dont recognize many things...

when i see a soldier, I see a warrior enslaved by the will of a probably corrupt regime. I think "we could use his warrior skills to defeat some criminal somewhere else..." but not possible, because he obeys only to his superiors and these superiors answer to corrupt regimes themselves... So, he is useless...

Send the Marines to arrest some wealthy guys in Washinton and arrest any idiot who supports the Saudi regime, and look at the effects on US image in the world. Let's do this experience. Shall we?
 
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Dude what the hell are you? You disclaim being anti establishment, you disclaim being against organized leadership anywhere in the human race, you disclaim to support the insurgency that the Coalition is losing lives fighting, you disclaim to despise their efforts, and you regularly DO NOT or AVOID answering questions?

What would you describe yourself as? So I can call you that without you denying what it is you are.
 
I'm not pro Insurgency... I'm not responsible of the poor conclusions you pull out of my words mate.

It's not a soccer match, I dont have to chose a team or anything... I do what I want. This is freedom, it travels hands in hands with independance.

And I wont give up my opinions to threats, insults etc...

You love your countrymen? I'm happy for you. But I'm against blind support. It's not good for you or even them...

Support have to be conditional and these conditions have to be extremely well thought. Not arbitrary and emotional...

You want to be a soldier, good for you, but sucking up to all the soldiers in the world is still retarded...

You have character, you are not an ingrateful bastard? Very good. So know that there is no shame in saying "I respect you, as long as you are a good soldier." or "I respect you, because I know that you are a good soldier."

This is fair. You can do it. But if you start to moan and cry like 16 years old teenage girl in an Eminem concert every time you see an uniform... I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic and childish. And even the soldiers wont appreciate that. They will dismiss it as mere enthusiasm and admiration... Sweet and childish, but still pathetic...

So honestly, give me a break, you dont know the definition of respect.You give yours so cheaply...
 
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