Teaching Johnny about Islam, but not Christianity

[PJ24]

Folks I think you should read this paragraph (from the link Henderson posted), like I suspected its not as it seems

[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Arial]"As part of their social studies curriculum, Grade 7 pupils throughout California do study ancient Muslim cultures and the impact of Islam on world history, but only as one of eleven units that comprise that year's social studies course, not as a special indoctrination into a particular religion as the ASN article presents it".[/FONT]

I am to assume (I know) that they studied Christianity's impact on world history as well?

I have no problems with kids learning about Islam, Judaism, Christianity, et al. Religion has always had an impact on cultures, so I believe it has a place in the history books. I don't think adopting Muslim roles is the proper form of instruction, however.

She encouraged them to use Muslim names, recited prayers in class and made them give up something for a day, such as television or candy, to simulate fasting during Ramadan. The final exam asked students for a critique of elements of Muslim culture.

U.S. District Judge Phyllis Hamilton ruled in favor of the school district in 2003, saying that the class had an instructional purpose and that students had engaged in no actual religious exercises.

What does she call prayers and "simulated" fasting, then?

I applaud her creativity, but I think it was very misplaced.

I am left to wonder if they role played as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc as well.

 

[behemoth79]

I am to assume (I know) that they studied Christianity's impact on world history as well?

I have no problems with kids learning about Islam, Judaism, Christianity, et al. Religion has always had an impact on cultures, so I believe it has a place in the history books. I don't think adopting Muslim roles is the proper form of instruction, however.






What does she call prayers and "simulated" fasting, then?

I applaud her creativity, but I think it was very misplaced.

I am left to wonder if they role played as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc as well.

i highly doubt that. it makes me wonder why christianity and judaism have such hostility to it. when i was in highschool, we had our Sustained Silent Reading (SSR) for 15 minutes after snack and before 3rd period. i brought my bible to school to read and was told that religious material wasnt allowed and that all books had to be novels. it brings up the following questions:

1. why can I read the Da Vinci Code but cant read the Bible?
2. Why can i be given a grade in class for reciting prayers to Allah, but am told im closed-minded and unaccepting of others when i want to pray to Jesus in school?
3. Has anyone else noticed that the more we turn away from morality, the shittier our world becomes?

 

[major liability]

1. why can I read the Da Vinci Code but cant read the Bible?
2. Why can i be given a grade in class for reciting prayers to Allah, but am told im closed-minded and unaccepting of others when i want to pray to Jesus in school?
3. Has anyone else noticed that the more we turn away from morality, the shittier our world becomes?

1. Because Christians are persecuted.
2. Because the ones saying that are closed-minded.
3. Not really. It was just neater when we were moral.

 

[deerslayer]

1. Because political opinions shape policy, and even though "One nation, under god" was the official motto of the US adopted by Congress, a bunch of lefties got together and didn't want it taught in school.
2. Because we're catering to minorities and at the same time insultingly disregarding the major religious base in America?
3. Sure have. I've been going to rodeos for thirteen years, and I can say that I've never seen so much sh*t in one place than California politics.

 

[gladius]

[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Arial]

And for those who dont know ASN, its the public relations department of ASSIST MINISTRIES, a Calfornia based Evangelical group. In other words,this story is coming from a Evanglist Christian Group, not a accredited news service such as the AP.

In other words, this story is highly suspect. Thanks to C/LT.Henderson for the link.
[/FONT]

Dude what are you saying?

The source I provide was from the San Fransico Chronicle which is considered a prodominantly liberal newspaper, which btw is local to the area where this is happening.

Here was some of the stuff that was printed:

During the history course at Excelsior School in the fall of 2001, the teacher, using an instructional guide, told the students they would adopt roles as Muslims for three weeks to help them learn what Muslims believe.


She encouraged them to use Muslim names, recited prayers in class and made them give up something for a day, such as television or candy, to simulate fasting during Ramadan. The final exam asked students for a critique of elements of Muslim culture.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/18/BAGLFFQENB1.DTL



There is no way they would allow Christian activity of this type in any California classroom. Especially the reciting prayers part.

 

[Ted]

1. why can I read the Da Vinci Code but cant read the Bible?
2. Why can i be given a grade in class for reciting prayers to Allah, but am told im closed-minded and unaccepting of others when i want to pray to Jesus in school?
3. Has anyone else noticed that the more we turn away from morality, the shittier our world becomes?

I haven't got the right answers, so I'll just give you my tuppence worth:

1) Because the Bible is used and has been abused over the ages as a religious guideline, The Da Vinci code is just a novel and far less damaging is this respect.
2) Because reciting prayers to Allah was probably part of the course, maybe misplaced, but a part anyway. Wanting to pray to Jesus, again, is a religious expression and there for not allowed in public schools.
3) I noticed it too. I personally think that morality is linked to religion. However it is a fact, that the more secualar we come the loewr the morality. So I guess there is a general link between the two.

 

[PJ24]

2) Because reciting prayers to Allah was probably part of the course, maybe misplaced, but a part anyway. Wanting to pray to Jesus, again, is a religious expression and there for not allowed in public schools.

Praying to "Allah" is a religious expression as well, regardless of it being masked by a "course."

 

[mmarsh]

Gladius

What I'm saying is that it sounds like this course is more about the history of religons rather than the religous instruction that the ASN was claiming. Its also quite disengenuous that the ASN failed to mention that Islamic teachings was only 1 of 11 parts into the study of religon. And lastly that this claim was made by an evanglist group (whom are not the most impartial not tolerant group of people I have ever met) not a news service casts a shadow over the credibility of this report.

 

[Ted]

Praying to "Allah" is a religious expression as well, regardless of it being masked by a "course."

I don't really agree with you on this. I recited the "zakat", I believe it was called, on more then one occasion. This has almost always been done for explaining about the Islam to pupils. In my opinion there is absolutely nothing religious to that. The words are the same, but when a devout muslim speaks them or I do..... well, to me it makes quite a difference.

 

[bulldogg]

How does reciting the prayer explain the religion. To my way of thinking it is not explaining the religion, it is teaching the religion... but then I need to hear your lesson plan in its entirity to have the correct context. But on the face of it I am a bit disturbed. When I teach about WWII history and Hitler I don't salute with raised fist and shout "Seig Heil!".

 

[PJ24]

I don't really agree with you on this. I recited the "zakat", I believe it was called, on more then one occasion. This has almost always been done for explaining about the Islam to pupils. In my opinion there is absolutely nothing religious to that. The words are the same, but when a devout muslim speaks them or I do..... well, to me it makes quite a difference.

Oh, yeah, you're right. Reading/reciting verses from the Qu'ran is completely different than reading verses from the Bible. Same with reciting Islamic prayers, a totally different thing than say, reciting the Apostles Creed, Nicean Creed, Athanasian Creed, et al. :-?

You've got some major double standards going on here, Ted. Either you are for religion in schools or you aren't. You can't be for ONE religion in schools and not others or you'll be a hypocrite in a huge way.

One can be educated on Islam without being required to role play the part of a Muslim.

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

(Zakat is the third pillar of Islam, btw, giving of alms.)

 

[deerslayer]

I dunno, I've had history teachers who told me that we didn't use parachutes until after WWII and that we didn't have "embedded reporting" until 2003 *cough Ernie Pyle et. al cough*. Luckily for me, I've always had the prior knowledge to set them straight and have them later contradict themselves.

As for this, "roleplaying" doesn't seem (from the student's view) to be an effective method of teaching about a religion. Students have a limited window of opportunity in which to attend class, and these activities would probably take up extraordinary amounts of class time. I fail to see the practicality in it, and quite frankly am alarmed on principle at the exclusivity of the curriculum.

 

[gladius]

Gladius

What I'm saying is that it sounds like this course is more about the history of religons rather than the religous instruction that the ASN was claiming. Its also quite disengenuous that the ASN failed to mention that Islamic teachings was only 1 of 11 parts into the study of religon. And lastly that this claim was made by an evanglist group (whom are not the most impartial not tolerant group of people I have ever met) not a news service casts a shadow over the credibility of this report.

But why did you bring it up after I had already brought up news from a non-religiuos news sources (a liberal one at that) showing the legitimacy of the report.

You were making people doubt the credibility of the story when in fact it was true.

Not to mention neither are Muslims the most tolerant people but somehow the left seems to excuse their behavior so often.

 

[Ted]

Oh, yeah, you're right. Reading/reciting verses from the Qu'ran is completely different than reading verses from the Bible. Same with reciting Islamic prayers, a totally different thing than say, reciting the Apostles Creed, Nicean Creed, Athanasian Creed, et al. :-?

You've got some major double standards going on here, Ted. Either you are for religion in schools or you aren't. You can't be for ONE religion in schools and not others or you'll be a hypocrite in a huge way.

One can be educated on Islam without being required to role play the part of a Muslim.

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

(Zakat is the third pillar of Islam, btw, giving of alms.)

Actually I am against the entire reciting thing. But what do you call it when you cover the topic and speak the Salat (it has to be this pillar if the other is wrong ) So I would necessary call it hypocrisy, because all religions would get the same airtime. And yes, we would recite the 10 commandments (I actually hate the word recite, because it is not what I mean...).

And you are right about the role playing bit, but that isn't in the curriculum if I were the teacher.

 

[PJ24]

Actually I am against the entire reciting thing. But what do you call it when you cover the topic and speak the Salat (it has to be this pillar if the other is wrong ) So I would necessary call it hypocrisy, because all religions would get the same airtime. And yes, we would recite the 10 commandments (I actually hate the word recite, because it is not what I mean...).

And you are right about the role playing bit, but that isn't in the curriculum if I were the teacher.

Salat is the second pillar of Islam and is the five daily prayers. So that too, is crossing the line of what isn't supposed to be accepted in public schools.

 

[Ted]

Salat is the second pillar of Islam and is the five daily prayers. So that too, is crossing the line of what isn't supposed to be accepted in public schools.

Okay, then we turn it around. If you would want to explain about the Islam in a Christian society, would you or wouldn't you talk about the content of their daily prayer? I don't mean getting on your knees facing east, but to talk about it..... and yes, maybe let them repeat it after you. It is a foreign language so rehearsing these foreign sounds isn't bad is it?

It is a different ball game if they have to know it by heart. Then you start crossing the line.

 

[PJ24]

Okay, then we turn it around. If you would want to explain about the Islam in a Christian society, would you or wouldn't you talk about the content of their daily prayer? I don't mean getting on your knees facing east, but to talk about it..... and yes, maybe let them repeat it after you. It is a foreign language so rehearsing these foreign sounds isn't bad is it?

It is a different ball game if they have to know it by heart. Then you start crossing the line.

That's the thing, from the article, they were actually preforming the acts/rituals, etc. Talking about religion is one thing, and I believe it's great to educate kids on w hat others believe to help promote tolerance and understanding, it's another thing to make them pretend to be what they're learning about. I don't see any reason they need to recite the prayers, however. The teacher could easily read them and explain what the phrases mean to that particular religion, but there's no reason the children need to recite the prayers, "simulate" fasting, etc.

As for it being a foreign language, well, you don't have to use prayers to introduce foreign sounds.

 

[bulldogg]

In Islamic societies do they teach about other religions? If so do they recite the Lord's Prayer? Do they recite the Nicene Creed? If the answer to these questions is no then I must in all honesty question why we are doing it in the West. I am beginning to think more and more that this is a subject that should be taught during week 4 of Basic training.

 

[Rob Henderson]

A prayer is still a prayer, no matter what language its in. Christianity used to be tought only in Latin, but it still meant the same thing as it does today...Knowing it by heart,ok, sure, if you say something but dont really mean it, then its a different ball game? What if I said, "All Muslims are going to hell."(IN NO WAY AM I SAYING THAT IN REAL LIFE THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL SIT.)But I said I didnt really mean it. There would still be a whole world of angry people at me, wouldnt there?

 

[Ted]

It seems that we all mean the same, more or less. Talking and educating about foreign religions is alright. But stressing and over-emphasizing this is crossing the line. Treat all religions equally and keep it in perspective, that would be my final word on this topic.