State Department makes US evacuees from Lebanon sign IOU to repay evacuation costs

mmarsh

mmarsh

Active member
This has got to be a new low...

http://www.forbes.com/business/services/feeds/ap/2006/07/18/ap2887271.html

The State Department said Monday that it will ask Americans to pay for rides out of Lebanon that include chartered vessels.

"What we have to do in a situation like this is, we have to go out on an emergency basis and rent vessels," Burns said. "That's what we're trying to do ... We do that on behalf of American citizens. We're not quite sure how many of these Americans will come out."

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi objected to billing evacuees.
"A nation that can provide more than $300 billion for a war in Iraq can provide the money to get its people out of Lebanon," Pelosi said in a statement.

Making US citizens pay back the costs to be evacuated? Whose inane idea was this? You'll notice they didnt even bother to mention the actual cost of the evacuation. Somebody explain this to me, we spend millions if not Billions in corporate bailouts, but we refuse to cover the cost of renting a boat to get our people out of a warzone. The French and Italians didnt charge their citizens anything. Anybody?
 
I'm sorry we're not a maternalistic socialist state that coddles people and helps bail them out when they are in deep doo doo for a decision THEY made. No one made them go to Lebanon. Time for these people to quit their friggin belly aching and take responsibility for their choices or bail out and move to some place that will rub your head and tell you everything will be ok when they :cen: up, like France. :)
 
Proving the point that again it is the god-almighty dollar that rules the U. S. government.
 
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Man, why did I ever leave Canada:sarc: .

But seriously, did we forget to put a contingency plan into use or something? Because (and anybody feel free correct me if I'm wrong) I had read that when US civilians were in a danger zone, the Marines would airlift them to a US warship offshore and then get them to a safer place. Boy, nothing like dropping the ball.
 
bulldogg said:
I'm sorry we're not a maternalistic socialist state that coddles people and helps bail them out when they are in deep doo doo for a decision THEY made. No one made them go to Lebanon. Time for these people to quit their friggin belly aching and take responsibility for their choices or bail out and move to some place that will rub your head and tell you everything will be ok when they :cen: up, like France. :)
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So what you are saying is people should never leave the USA? May I ask why you are living in China? :). There were 3 major revolts in China in the last century alone, I think you'd be mighty glad if Uncle Sam came to pick you up if you got stuck there during another revolt. The truth is you never know what sh** storm you can wake yourself into. I never imagined the violent riots in Paris until they happened last November and again in April. Heck you dont even need to leave home to have some BS happen to you, look at 9-11, Katrina, and the great Chicago Fire. Not everything is predictable. This war came out of nowhere, the people didnt even have 24 hours to get out. They were advised to leave after the airport was bombed and all the routes out were cut off.

I agree with TomTom. Anyone know the Lyrics to 'Taxman' by the Beatles?
 
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People can leave the USA, but dont expect the gov't to pick up your slack. If you want to leave, then leave, but dont come crying back to the mother country just cause yours got bombed and expect free passage with benefits.
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
People can leave the USA, but dont expect the gov't to pick up your slack. If you want to leave, then leave, but dont come crying back to the mother country just cause yours got bombed and expect free passage with benefits.
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Thats never been the policy of the US. The government has always gone to the aid of its citizens abroad or at home. Its even invaded countries to protect its citizens abroad. A country is in a pretty sad state of affairs if its policy is 'we dont give a damn about our citizenry'. If thats the case now, why the heck am I paying taxes if my government doesnt care about my well being? Living in another country doesnt make you less of a citizen. There is no such thing as a 2nd class US citizen. Your the same US citizen if you live in Honduras, Paris, or Atlanta.

Just you wait, they get away doing this, how long do you think it will take before they decide not to fund rescue efforts WITHIN the USA.
 
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I think this is both good and bad.

The US State Department told these folks before going over there that it's not a good idea. It told these folks that by going over there, they are risking their lives and the lives of other Americans that would rescue them if the SHTF.

This was all before thhey left the USA. Should the government (aka me because I pay taxes) have to pay the bill for peoples' stupidity? Nope, sorry. You went to Lebanon on your own accord. You knew the risk and said to hell with it anyways.

It doesn't mean that the government isn't going to rescue your dumb ass, but you got to pay the bill.

Lebanon isn't like Grenada. There wasn't a islamic revoluntionary coup in a day and make Lebanon the rats nest that it is today.

Grenada was all normal one day and had Cuban Military forces and other communists on the island the next day. Lebanon isn't like that. Sorry, life sucks. But If you play with fire you're going to get burned.

Lebanon has been the hell whole rats nest that's its been for the last twenty years. Hell, they just ended a 18 year civil war. That's gotta tell you something.

Once again, it says one thing that I tell folks everyday.

YOU GOTTA COVER YOUR OWN ASS.

Same with Hurricane Katrina, you didn't store food and water before the storm. Tough shit, it's not my job to make sure you prepare for the SHTF.

Please Nancy Pelosi lives in the uber ultra liberal part of American society. they believe that they should have armed body guards and carry concealed firearms on their person but the normal joe blow every day worker on the street shouldn't be allowed to own firearms for personal protection and should really on Law Enforcement for protect and help.

Hurricane Katrina said one important thing. Folks will help you int time. But not fast enough. Cover your own ass, make sure you got what yopu need. And if you don't do anything, don't ***** afterwords. You have no right too.

Samething with the folks in Lebanon. They knew Hezzbola was a major power there, they knew that Hezzbola targets and attacks Israeli people. They knew that Syria and Iran are trying to stirr the fire in the middle east but they still went for their own reasons. Sorry, but I'm not paying for your idiot actions.
 
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mmarsh said:
So what you are saying is people should never leave the USA? May I ask why you are living in China? :). There were 3 major revolts in China in the last century alone, I think you'd be mighty glad if Uncle Sam came to pick you up if you got stuck there during another revolt. The truth is you never know what sh** storm you can wake yourself into. I never imagined the violent riots in Paris until they happened last November and again in April. Heck you dont even need to leave home to have some BS happen to you, look at 9-11, Katrina, and the great Chicago Fire. Not everything is predictable. This war came out of nowhere, the people didnt even have 24 hours to get out. They were advised to leave after the airport was bombed and all the routes out were cut off.

I agree with TomTom. Anyone know the Lyrics to 'Taxman' by the Beatles?
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I am living here because I am making sick money but should the merde hit the fan I will not expect the US government to bail me out because I chose to come here of my own free will. I take responsibility for my family's safety I don't leave it to anyone else. I chose the cities I live/lived in for their "escapability". At this very moment I have six contingency plans for getting out of Mainland China should the circumstances call for it and none of them count on Uncle Sugar coming to bundle me up, change my diaper and sing me a lullaby about how life is fair as I am whisked home on Air Force One.

Were these hostilities in Lebanon the result of American action and not the Israelis I would expect the US to evacuate them non gratis. Or if those people were SENT there I would expect them to be evacuated for free as well. But this isn't the case Uncle Sam is not your mommy and daddy. They don't exist to come save you each time you of your own free will step on your :cen:. But then with this sense of entitlement people have where they are owed everything and always a bloody victim I am not surprised by this whinging, disappointed again, but not surprised.
 
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The US State Department told these folks before going over there that it's not a good idea. It told these folks that by going over there, they are risking their lives and the lives of other Americans that would rescue them if the SHTF.

This was all before thhey left the USA. Should the government (aka me because I pay taxes) have to pay the bill for peoples' stupidity? Nope, sorry. You went to Lebanon on your own accord. You knew the risk and said to hell with it anyways.

The State Department never warned Americans away from Lebanon (until last week). The country of Lebanon has been considered friendly to the USA for the past 30 years. You can still find Tourism information on US Dept of State website. As for paying for other people's stupidity I assure that you do it every day, just look at Iraq. Saving 25000 Americans is a bargin compared to what we are paying in Iraq.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_948.html

It doesn't mean that the government isn't going to rescue your dumb ass, but you got to pay the bill.

The whole purpose of Democratic Government is to serve the people, the opposite is totalitarianism.

Lebanon isn't like Grenada. There wasn't a islamic revoluntionary coup in a day and make Lebanon the rats nest that it is today.

Grenada was all normal one day and had Cuban Military forces and other communists on the island the next day. Lebanon isn't like that. Sorry, life sucks. But If you play with fire you're going to get burned.

And Thats exactly what happened in Lebanon, last Monday all was peaceful, Next day, Boom! No warning at all.


Lebanon has been the hell whole rats nest that's its been for the last twenty years. Hell, they just ended a 18 year civil war. That's gotta tell you something.

Actually it ended it 25 years ago. It since then it was rebuilding. As for a rats nest, Beruit is called "the Paris of the Middle East". My father was there years ago, he loved it Beruit was his favorite city in the entire Middle East.

Once again, it says one thing that I tell folks everyday.

YOU GOTTA COVER YOUR OWN ASS.

Same with Hurricane Katrina, you didn't store food and water before the storm. Tough shit, it's not my job to make sure you prepare for the SHTF.

Then why the hell am I paying taxes? If I cant count on my government for anything why do I need them? Being self sufficent is one thing, but I am not interested in being a survivalist. The Government does have obligations to its people. It doesnt honor that, it has no business ruling.

As the old saying goes "Nobody wants a firehouse in their neighborhood, until the day their house is on fire".
 
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Which part? This part doesnt sound like rumor...

'In statements e-mailed to Americans in Lebanon and posted on the embassy's Web site, the State Department has stressed "that the U.S. government does not provide no-cost transportation but does have the authority to provide repatriation loans to those in financial need'.

Nancy Pelosi doesnt think it to be rumor either...
(From Forbes, Link is in my first post)

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi objected to billing evacuees.
"A nation that can provide more than $300 billion for a war in Iraq can provide the money to get its people out of Lebanon," Pelosi said in a statement.

UPDATE: The State Departments Website has just decided to waive the charges (most likely due to the bad press is was about to recieve about charging people in need of help). This was posted just a hour or so ago...

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/69169.htm

"In this extraordinary case, Secretary Rice has directed the State Department to waive the requirement for American citizens departing Lebanon to reimburse the United States Government for their travel costs. We want to do everything we can to facilitate the departure of American citizens from Lebanon. Today’s step removes one potential worry for our citizens at this difficult time."
 
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Hey MMARSH, this is from the same website you posted.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_948.html

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Recent events in Lebanon underscore the need for caution and sound personal security precautions. Former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri was assassinated on February 14, 2005 in a car bomb attack in which 22 people were killed and many others seriously wounded; the potential for violence remains. Since February 2005, there have been 15 separate bombings in Lebanon, resulting in ten dead and 121 wounded.
Americans have been the targets of numerous terrorist attacks in Lebanon in the past. The perpetrators of many of these attacks are still present and retain the ability to act. American citizens should thus keep a low profile, varying times and routes for all required travel. Americans should also pay close attention to their personal security at locations where Westerners are generally known to congregate, and should avoid demonstrations and large gatherings. Unofficial travel to Lebanon by U.S. Government employees and their family members requires prior approval by the Department of State.

U.S. citizens who travel to Lebanon should exercise heightened caution when traveling in parts of the southern suburbs of Beirut, portions of the Bekaa Valley and South Lebanon, and the cities of Sidon and Tripoli. Hizballah has not been disarmed. It maintains a strong presence in many of these areas, and there is potential for action by other extremist groups in the city of Tripoli. Tensions remain in Lebanon's southern border with the possibility of Hizballah and Palestinian militant activity at any time.
Palestinian groups hostile to both the Lebanese government and the U.S. operate largely autonomously inside refugee camps in different areas of the country. Intra-communal violence within the camps has resulted in violent incidents such as shootings and explosions. Travel by U.S. citizens to Palestinian camps should be avoided. Asbat al-Ansar, a terrorist group with apparent links to Al-Qaida, has targeted Lebanese, U.S. and other foreign government interests. It has been outlawed by the Lebanese government but continues to maintain a presence in Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp.

In addition, dangers posed by landmines and unexploded ordnance throughout south Lebanon are significant and also exist in other areas where civil war fighting was intense.
For the latest security information, Americans traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department's Internet web site at http://travel.state.gov where the current Travel Warnings and Public Announcements, including the Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, and the Middle East and North Africa Public Announcement, can be found.
Up-to-date information on safety and security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the U.S., or for callers outside the U.S. and Canada, a regular toll-line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).
The Department of State urges American citizens to take responsibility for their own personal security while traveling overseas. For general information about appropriate measures travelers can take to protect themselves in an overseas environment, see the Department of State's pamphlet A Safe Trip Abroad .
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SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES: In addition to being subject to all Lebanese laws, U.S. citizens who also possess Lebanese nationality may also be subject to other laws that impose special obligations on Lebanese citizens. Lebanese citizens who have been associated with or traveled through Israel are subject to arrest and detention.
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AVIATION SAFETY OVERSIGHT: As there is no direct commercial air service between the United States and Lebanon, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has not assessed Lebanon's Civil Aviation Authority for compliance with ICAO international aviation safety standards. For more information, travelers may visit the FAA's Internet web site at http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa. Official U.S. government travelers take special security measures when using Beirut International Airport.
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CRIME:There have been recent kidnappings of Lebanese-American women by their Lebanese relatives in an effort to force these women into marriage.
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COUNTRY DESCRIPTION: The Republic of Lebanon is a parliamentary republic. Political power is concentrated in the office of the President, Prime Minister and Speaker of Parliament, each representing one of Lebanon's three largest religious sects (Maronite Christians, Sunni and Shi'a Muslims). Since 1973, Lebanon has been in a state of war with Israel.
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Nope... CNN just announced the US State Dept wont make people to pay but the thing is that those who went to a dangerous country should have known better where they're heading to
 
5.56X45mm said:

Once again, cover your own ass.
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No, the State department only puts countries that have a risk to American citizens thats why its called a TRAVEL WARNING. I made one small mistake. The first warning was issued on March 2005 due to the Rafik Hiriri assasination. So I off by 15 months, however that still disproves your notion that it was a Rats nest for 30 years. It fact its only been a rats nest if you will since March 2005. So a small mistake but my point is valid. As for CYA I dont get your point, the warning tells you avoid Palestineans areas because they dont like Americans. Well Thats obvious.

Phoenix

Wrong, they said they were going to do it but sometime this evening they changed their mind and waived the fee (most likely due to the storm of protest that would most certainly follow if they didnt.) And Secondly your post is too late, I already mentioned the status change a few posts up.
 
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I guess I can't explain common sense to someone that doesn't have any.

But I shall try again.

CYA comes in because YOU go to a country were the SHTF is happening everyday. YOU need to CYA because the State Department told YOU that it's NOT SAFE for YOU. So if you get yourself into DANGER. Be prepared to CYA.

It's not the State Department's job to Cover your own ass when the SHTF. That's your job. you went there on your own accord knwing fully that it's a rats nest of terrorist activity.

Is the government rescuing it's people. Yes, should they. Yes and No. You went there on your own accord, so be prepared to Cover your own ass when the government can't do it for you.
 
I guess I can't explain common sense to someone that doesn't have any.

Actually its your writing skills that makes you hard to understand...

But I shall try again.

Good.

CYA comes in because YOU go to a country were the SHTF is happening everyday. YOU need to CYA because the State Department told YOU that it's NOT SAFE for YOU. So if you get yourself into DANGER. Be prepared to CYA.

Ok first of all the first Travel Warning was issued 1 year ago not 30 like you claimed. Previous to March 2005, Lebanon (at least Beruit) was a nice place to visit, the tourism trade was thriving (lots of French Tourists go there). Secondly a Travel warning doesnt mean imminent danger, in just means there is unrest. For example, they issued a Travel Warning for France in April even though there was no danger to Americans (I was there). They did not ask Americans to leave. If the unrest becomes more dangerous they might update the Traveling warning and recommend that citizens leave the country. This is what happened in Lebenon. There was an initial warning 15 months ago, advising people to stay away from certain hot areas but they didnt tell people to leave. But with the Isreali attack they updated this warning for people to leave immediatly on July 13. The problem was the Isrealis had already cut all the ways out, trapping our citizens there. They are trying to work out a way to rescue them as we speak.

It's not the State Department's job to Cover your own ass when the SHTF. That's your job. you went there on your own accord knwing fully that it's a rats nest of terrorist activity.

Not True, the State Department has been doing it for years. From Grenada, Haiti, Vietnam, Panama, there have been plenty of other examples. I agree that the State Department shouldnt have to come get you in places like North Korea or Iran were no American should go, But in Lebanon the SHTF didnt actually occur until last week, when the travel warning was updated by the State Department. Besides these Hizbollah are more interested in killing Isrealis than Americans (for the moment).

Is the government rescuing it's people. Yes, should they. Yes and No. You went there on your own accord, so be prepared to Cover your own ass when the government can't do it for you.

Is the government rescuing its people, yes but its not very well organized (after Katrina, what a surprise). Many other countries have already evacuated hundreds of their citizens we are only just getting started. Should they: Yes because nobody could have predicted last week that a war would start in the ME so soon, there was no build up or warning. Theres also alot of them, 25000 people requires more tranportation than what commercial lines can provide and that excludes everybody else whose trying to get out.
A governments job is to take care of its citizenry. Should the government go back after those who refuse to evacuate with the majority? Perhaps not for free, but I wouldnt heartless abandon them either. Its a question of compassion.
 
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