Reasons for Iraq War

dragon_master_gunner said:
Think of it like this: If we make "them" more like "us", then "they" will be less likely to want to blow "us" up. Make sense?

Haha... nicely put Mr.Dragon. I really agree with you, from what i see (I am aware that media is not a good way to judge the place) even the most expensive mansions seem like a place i wouldn't want to spend a night. We need to be there.
But if "they" dont like the idear of "us" making "them" more like "us", then "they" will be more likely to try and blow "us" up, if a people feel there culture and ideals are under attack, there going to fight back.

well, idiotbox, thats a good point. I think that the US is right to go into Iraq, but should take a step backwards about religion and colture. Us middle easterners are likely to get mad when our beliefs are at danger.
The reason for the war was he was not fessing up and he did it for 12 years and he had the help of the Russians and the French
I don't think Middle Easterners should be forced into our religion but we do know what works best as far as governement goes. This is what we are trying to force them into. The problem though right now is the fact that their religion and culture is opposed to the change in government. This means they either need to find a new religion or be a little more liberal in their interpretation of Islam.
I agree

I agree that democracy is the best gov. method...But it will take time to democratize the area. Some things cannot change. You cannot make Iraq(or anny arab nation) give up the Shria(islamic law) as the base of their laws. you cant expect muslims to allow certin rights for wiemen.NOT YET. Give them a window. They will open it alone....
The question becomes then is the loss of life while we wait for them to open the window worth it or is death toll better if we force the window open and shove them through it?
I lived in NY during 9/11. I lived with soldiers in the streets for months after. I lived near Niagara Falls when the power went out on the Eastern Seaboard (something I had predicted) and the silly excuse was given that there was a lightening strike. There was no lightening strike. How do you cripple the USA? Bring us to our financial knees. We are still suffering the effects.
I used to cross the border to Canada, just so that I could spend some time going back in time. The time before terror. The time when there was not active military activity going on in our own streets.
I for one am glad that we did not just lay down and turn the other cheek. That's reason enough for me. There will always be people who can find sinister reasons for our actions. Our interests stretch beyond this country. You would be hard pressed not to find one politician or another with financial interests in any part of the globe.
IMHO, the tapes of the planes crashing into the towers, and the aftermath should still be shown on TV. They say sometimes it is out of compassion for the survivors. But documentaries still show prisoners at Auschwitz, killings in Viet Nam. What's the difference?
Show the videos again. Show the people jumping and the survivors in shock and probably therapy forever. Then ask why we went to war.
The power going out in the eastern seaboard had nothing to do with anything other than generators being overworked and going out. ACtually I don't know why I'm posting this topic is boring and was done with awhile in my eyes.
I must thank you for honoring us with your words of wisdom and vast wealth of experience even though you do find the discussion boring.
Ok its not boring anymore. The Eastern seaboard blackout honestly had nothing to do with terrorism and this has nothing to do with this topic. So I will finish this post and you can delete it due to its irrelevance to the topic or you can set up a new thread where this will fit in. I am a part of the Institute of Electronics and Electrical Engineers (IEEE). At my local chapter meeting a few months back we had one of the head engineers of one of the power grids invovled in the blackout come and explain exactly what happened in the blackout with voice transcripts of phone calls, computer printouts, powerpoint, the whole 9 yards. Now what happened to the best of my ability to remember and explain was the fact that two generators were down for routine repair. That means all the other generators contributing to the power grid are required to pick up the slack. So far everything is normal and routine. this is right before peak power usage time, when the power being generated needs to be the most. So a little before the blackout a tree limb cathces a powerline and they have to shut off the power going through that line and re route it so it can be fixed. Everything is still routine. But the problem begins when the power is rerouted the generator it is rerouted to is now being overworked so the system shuts it down before it damages the generator. The bad thing about this is it is a very very large capacity generator so now you have tons of other generators trying to make up for the loss of this big one. Another thing about power transmission is you can't send too much power through powerlines or else they overheat and sag and the power companies will now how much they are saggina t any given time. Now when these other generators start trying to make up for the loss of this huge one the powerlines begin to overheat and sag they begin to get caught in trees and what not and more powerlines have to be shut off. In a matter of minutes you have a massive blackout. Now why did it affect the Eastern seaboard? The power being supplied all over continental America is shared. the power grids and companies are connected together through networks. except for Texas. The lonestar state wnated to be independent of all the other power networks. So Texas has one power network. So when one network begins to fail, so do others. Luckily the entire US was not affected because other networks west of the seaboard just cut off the connections they have to the other networks or burdened their generators just enough to fight the blackouts move westward without taking themselves out. Now will you please trust the word of someone who is actually in the field?
diplomatic_means said:
Now will you please trust the word of someone who is actually in the field?

When they submit a valid argument, yes I will. I am abnormally adverse to accepting the words of those with credentials that I am unsure or unaware of without these supporting arguments. Kind of in the nature of a discussion, eh?

Carry on. :CG:
I lived in Niagara Falls at the time of the blackout. I also lived there when it was put on the top ten list of possible terrorist targets. You CAN'T live there and not know people who work for the Niagara Power Authority. They heard the tree reasoning too. They also heard a lot of other excuses that the Government was giving for that occurance..including the lightening strike. I am not a reactionary. If it was tree limbs it would have been disclosed. If it was two shut downs it would have been disclosed. Not days of other reasons guessed at first. If you don't know what it is that caused it, how can you definitively state that's what caused it?

Mr. Diplomatic_means, I am degreed in the science field. This topic interests me. I don't think that a condescending profession of boredom to stir things up was very diplomatic at all. We are not all so jaded that these things don't still affect us, and it is in human nature to discuss things until it is no longer needed.
I am just reporting what an engineer how works for one of the power grids involved said happened. He was actually present and working as things went to chaos. He watched everything happen. He had voice transcripts of phone conversations happening between his engineers and those of other power grids. I don't know how much proof you need but what he presented is stuff the government was not covering up and it was stuff that the government could not fabricate. The rarity of such an event happening like it did the engineer stressed was ridiculously small. But things lined up just perfectly on that one occasion for all of it to happen. He explained everything that went on technologically to a room full of engineers. I don't see reason to argue over what he had to say because any other reason that someone could give could not possibly be as well explained, documented and presented as what this engineer told us. This warning I'm about to give is for EVERYONE to take to heart. I have learned the hard way in debates with liberals that conservative conspiracy is just as bad as liberal ignorance. Research every side to every argument even if it is blatantly biased. Sometimes you can learn something from the most outlandish things and often you can be screwed for taking everything at face value.
I am neither liberal nor consevative. Merely a Patriot. My issue is not with the proof you presented, but the derision of those with a need to discuss it.

Ok, 2 things:

1)This is off topic! :eek:fftopic: If this continues, it should be under" The Eastern seaboard blackout" in chit chat, or somthing.
2)Please keep it civil.