A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The America where people went to go to build a better life is no more.
At least for those who wish to do it legally.
At least for those who wish to do it legally.
Read this, It will surprise you for sure!
major liability
Active member
That's well and good but we're not talking about Americans of a certain ethnicity, we're talking about foreigners who enter the country illegally. Doesn't matter what color you are; if you refuse to assimilate and would rather change our nation to better suit you you can get the hell out.
So?? was is legal 4 u?? and do you know the requirements for entering our country legaly? Ok. this is not brain surgery...My cousin was born in Mexico, raised in the states, joined the military like many IMMIGRANTS do, so serve and give up their life for our country..fine...so 10 years later still no citizenship?? just a permit..not even a residency green card?? see the problem? of course not you' havent experienced it... so until you do...let's talk 
God bless America!!!
Oh, and 4 the record, ethnicity and cultural background, does have 2 do alot with America. My mother Assimilated, so therefore I had the opportunity to an education and become a POSITIVE and useful asset to my country, so yes your ethnicity and culture matter! peace. God bless.
Geez, I can go on and on,....Isn't America bout' change?? didn't our ancestors come to this country to escape from opression?? and yet we still lack common sense..Pizza?? who introduced it 2 america?? and it's been adopted as an american food??? Italians. right. Chinese food??? Asians. right, the list goes on and on my friend...so since I'am Native American I guess I should be saying STAY THE HELL OUT!!! LOL!!! God bless AMERICA, MY COUNTRY ENOUGH SAID.
God bless America!!!Oh, and 4 the record, ethnicity and cultural background, does have 2 do alot with America. My mother Assimilated, so therefore I had the opportunity to an education and become a POSITIVE and useful asset to my country, so yes your ethnicity and culture matter!
peace. God bless.Geez, I can go on and on,....Isn't America bout' change?? didn't our ancestors come to this country to escape from opression?? and yet we still lack common sense..Pizza?? who introduced it 2 america?? and it's been adopted as an american food??? Italians. right. Chinese food??? Asians. right, the list goes on and on my friend...so since I'am Native American I guess I should be saying STAY THE HELL OUT!!! LOL!!! God bless AMERICA, MY COUNTRY
ENOUGH SAID.
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03USMC
Active member
Yes and no. It's not all black and white and spelled out. Is Illegal Immigration a problem? Short answer is yes. Long answer is why does it occur and how do we fix it.
And as much as everyone likes to hem and haw and evade the issue and say "Oh were talking about all ethnicities." in reality you are not. She knows it, I know, my Tio Felix knows. When anyone decides to discuss illegal immigration, in reality I'd just prefer you said what your thinking "Them Mescan's". To be fair Latino's make up the largest illegal immigrant percentage in the country so lets stop beating around the bush. I won't even complain that there also El Salvadoran, Honduran, etc etc. Hell we all look alike right. The influx of Latino's is what the whole discussion is about, thats why the fence (thank god theres no shovels or ladders in Mexico...otherwise they'd figure a way over that.) is being built on the Southern Border, not on the Northern Border. So lets be real.
Assimilation.Yes immigrants should assimilate. Most do. Yet every immigrant community has brought something and has established their own comfort zone. Little Italy, Little Odessa, China Town, Korea Town, Little Tokyo, Little Saigon, see where I'm going with this? It generally takes at least one generation to assimilate, older people have a tougher time. It's not easy to be living one place one day, speaking one language and then the next having people wanting you to say " Wow Biff thats a wicked sick Beamer." the next.
Change what? Are you offended that spanish is spoken in public, are we talking about you? (MAYBE). What exactly is being changed? What is it that they are changing to suit "them"?
Then lets get into to why they come. Say Pablo works 12 hours a day at a factory, lets say this factory is oh I dunno...Mattel. Pablo makes about 500 Peso's a week. Pablo has a wife and dos nino's. 500 peso's at the current exchange rate is roughly 50 bucks. Now Pablo pays rent lives with family, so he kicks in on that and utilities and whatnot. Buying milk for the kiddies well a gallon is gonna set him back at least 80 peso's, a chicken 20, etc etc. The dinero don't go far.
Now across Rio Bravo once he's risked his life, paid a coyote and made it past Los Limones. He can get a job the gabachos won't take for Double or triple what he makes. He can live frugaly and send money home to his family. Buy a house. Buy a business. Buy a car. It's human nature to better yourself and it's simple economics.
Should Pablo get a visa? Sure. Can he? Probably not. It's stacked against him. He has to prove that he already has property and money to return to.
So say Pablo gets here and decides to "fix" his papers because he wants to remain legally. Perhaps bring his family. Gets a lawyer. Applies for LPR status. Well now he has to deal with a bunch of bureaucrats at Migra who interpret the law as they see fit, not how it's written. So Pablo has put himself on Migras radar. Pretty soon Pablo, who was trying to do the right thing gets removed cause it's much easier to deport people if you know where they are instead of actually looking for them. Pablo decides he'll come back but this time he won't make the mistake of trying to do the right thing.
The short of it is this. As long as Gringolandia is here, they are coming. The system is broke. The system needs to be fixed. The blame game needs to go away.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
John Howard
John Howard is spot on.
Prime Minister John Howard says he has no need to apologise for telling Muslims they need to embrace Australian values.
Mr Howard sparked controversy yesterday by saying on talk-back radio a small group of Muslim migrants had refused to accept their adopted country's values and had not learned English.
He told Macquarie Radio Australia had benefited greatly from immigration, but “there is a section, a small section, of the Islamic population ... which is very resistant to integration”.
"What I want to do is to reinforce the need for everybody who comes to this country to fully integrate," Mr Howard said yesterday. "Fully integrating means accepting Australian values, it means learning as rapidly as you can the English language if you don't already speak it.
"And it means understanding that in certain areas, such as the equality of men and women, the societies that some people have left were not as contemporary and as progressive as ours.
"People who come from societies where women are treated in an inferior fashion have got to learn very quickly that that is not the case in Australia."...
The prime minister’s comments sparked fury among some Muslim leaders who say they were offended by what the prime minister had said.
The chairman of the government's new Islamic advisory committee, Dr Ameer Ali, has warned of more trouble unless Mr Howard tones down his rhetoric on Muslim migrants.
"We have already witnessed one incident in Sydney recently in
Cronulla, I don't want these scenes to be repeated because when you antagonise the younger generation, younger group, they are bound to react," Dr Ali told Macquarie Radio.
Don't tell Muslims they must integrate, or they will attack you.
But Mr Howard today stood by his comments.
"I don't apologise," he told reporters."I think they are missing the point and the point is that I don't care and the Australian people don't care where people come from.
"There's a small section of the Islamic population which is unwilling to integrate and I have said generally all migrants ... they have to integrate."...
"And I have said, generally, all migrants ... they have to integrate, and that means speaking English as quickly as possible, it means embracing Australian values and it also means making sure that no matter what the culture of the country from which they come might have been, Australia requires women to be treated fairly and equally and in the same fashion as men.
"And if any migrants that come into this country have a different view, they better get rid of that view very quickly. I don't retreat in any way from that. It doesn't involve singling out a group."
My opinion, damn right.
John Howard is spot on.
Prime Minister John Howard says he has no need to apologise for telling Muslims they need to embrace Australian values.
Mr Howard sparked controversy yesterday by saying on talk-back radio a small group of Muslim migrants had refused to accept their adopted country's values and had not learned English.
He told Macquarie Radio Australia had benefited greatly from immigration, but “there is a section, a small section, of the Islamic population ... which is very resistant to integration”.
"What I want to do is to reinforce the need for everybody who comes to this country to fully integrate," Mr Howard said yesterday. "Fully integrating means accepting Australian values, it means learning as rapidly as you can the English language if you don't already speak it.
"And it means understanding that in certain areas, such as the equality of men and women, the societies that some people have left were not as contemporary and as progressive as ours.
"People who come from societies where women are treated in an inferior fashion have got to learn very quickly that that is not the case in Australia."...
The prime minister’s comments sparked fury among some Muslim leaders who say they were offended by what the prime minister had said.
The chairman of the government's new Islamic advisory committee, Dr Ameer Ali, has warned of more trouble unless Mr Howard tones down his rhetoric on Muslim migrants.
"We have already witnessed one incident in Sydney recently in
Cronulla, I don't want these scenes to be repeated because when you antagonise the younger generation, younger group, they are bound to react," Dr Ali told Macquarie Radio.
Don't tell Muslims they must integrate, or they will attack you.
But Mr Howard today stood by his comments.
"I don't apologise," he told reporters."I think they are missing the point and the point is that I don't care and the Australian people don't care where people come from.
"There's a small section of the Islamic population which is unwilling to integrate and I have said generally all migrants ... they have to integrate."...
"And I have said, generally, all migrants ... they have to integrate, and that means speaking English as quickly as possible, it means embracing Australian values and it also means making sure that no matter what the culture of the country from which they come might have been, Australia requires women to be treated fairly and equally and in the same fashion as men.
"And if any migrants that come into this country have a different view, they better get rid of that view very quickly. I don't retreat in any way from that. It doesn't involve singling out a group."
My opinion, damn right.
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
03 explained a heck of a lot better than most people can.
As for the integration issue, well, if that was the main concern, why isn't there a screening process part in the beginning to see how "American" you are to see if you're eligible for some kind of visa? There isn't. So obviously the whole "integration" concern is probably largely academic. When I'm at the airport or something, the fact that no one can tell I'm a foreigner until I flip out the passport has no bearing. I'm still pulled aside for "special security" checks and I'm constantly reminded that I have to piss off after my visit time is up and I must report it to Customs and Border Protection. Yeah, I have to do that every time.
Getting a job in America as a foreigner is next to impossible if you know how the system works.
There's a quota of work permits, known as H1Bs and every year there are so many applicants (and these are guys who managed to find employers who want them) that less than 20% of applicants make it. Can you imagine what kind of rate that is? First off, you have to go on your typical job search. Most employers will not even look at foreigners because of the paperwork that is now involved. For the lucky few who did manage to find an employer they want, they will engage an immigration lawyer who will have to submit the paperwork (massive) on March of that year. It takes several months for the news to come through (of whether or not you made it through the lottery) and then you will be eligible to work in the US starting in October. If you include your job search, applying, resume writing and sending, cold calling, ass kissing and nut rubbing, you're talking about over a year's commitment to work in the US and the odds are you WON'T get it even if you did EVERYTHING right and the guys on the other end are desperate to land you.
Then, let's say you're lucky enough and you got your H1B and you're working in the US. You know how turbulent the market can be right? Your job will hang in the balance of your employer's competence or the economy in general. To apply for a LPR (legal permanent residence, aka Green Card) takes five years. That's FIVE years of consistent employment in the US. At any point if you are fired or laid off, you have very little time to find another job with an employer who is willing to do additional paperwork to hire you and remember that the vast majority of employers will not want to deal with that.
And that's put simply as well. Immigration lawyers can send you back a lot of money that you either don't have or can't afford several times over. Plus, the sheer amount of frauds out there means unless you have a lot of money and can hire the ones with good reputation (expensive) you will lose a lot of sleep. Kind of like leaving your car at a car repair center that you've never heard of.
Plus the whole time you will have agencies of all kinds looking to get rid of your ass because that's what they're paid to do.
People who try to do it legally are the ones who end up being losers in this game.
As for the integration issue, well, if that was the main concern, why isn't there a screening process part in the beginning to see how "American" you are to see if you're eligible for some kind of visa? There isn't. So obviously the whole "integration" concern is probably largely academic. When I'm at the airport or something, the fact that no one can tell I'm a foreigner until I flip out the passport has no bearing. I'm still pulled aside for "special security" checks and I'm constantly reminded that I have to piss off after my visit time is up and I must report it to Customs and Border Protection. Yeah, I have to do that every time.
Getting a job in America as a foreigner is next to impossible if you know how the system works.
There's a quota of work permits, known as H1Bs and every year there are so many applicants (and these are guys who managed to find employers who want them) that less than 20% of applicants make it. Can you imagine what kind of rate that is? First off, you have to go on your typical job search. Most employers will not even look at foreigners because of the paperwork that is now involved. For the lucky few who did manage to find an employer they want, they will engage an immigration lawyer who will have to submit the paperwork (massive) on March of that year. It takes several months for the news to come through (of whether or not you made it through the lottery) and then you will be eligible to work in the US starting in October. If you include your job search, applying, resume writing and sending, cold calling, ass kissing and nut rubbing, you're talking about over a year's commitment to work in the US and the odds are you WON'T get it even if you did EVERYTHING right and the guys on the other end are desperate to land you.
Then, let's say you're lucky enough and you got your H1B and you're working in the US. You know how turbulent the market can be right? Your job will hang in the balance of your employer's competence or the economy in general. To apply for a LPR (legal permanent residence, aka Green Card) takes five years. That's FIVE years of consistent employment in the US. At any point if you are fired or laid off, you have very little time to find another job with an employer who is willing to do additional paperwork to hire you and remember that the vast majority of employers will not want to deal with that.
And that's put simply as well. Immigration lawyers can send you back a lot of money that you either don't have or can't afford several times over. Plus, the sheer amount of frauds out there means unless you have a lot of money and can hire the ones with good reputation (expensive) you will lose a lot of sleep. Kind of like leaving your car at a car repair center that you've never heard of.
Plus the whole time you will have agencies of all kinds looking to get rid of your ass because that's what they're paid to do.
People who try to do it legally are the ones who end up being losers in this game.
the_13th_redneck, I agree 03USMC does know his stuff and damn well,,..SO DID U LEARN ANYTHING NEW??? LOL! BET U DID, no offense but it dosent hurt 2 keep learning
Dont care who xplained it better,..but that u understand, that's all no harm..no shame y que?
God Bless America
Dont care who xplained it better,..but that u understand, that's all no harm..no shame
y que?God Bless America
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
What?
No one was trying to better another's argument. I think our explanations complimented each other.
No one was trying to better another's argument. I think our explanations complimented each other.
The Other Guy
Spam King
...the_13th_redneck, I agree 03USMC does know his stuff and damn well,,..SO DID U LEARN ANYTHING NEW??? LOL! BET U DID, no offense but it dosent hurt 2 keep learning
Dont care who xplained it better,..but that u understand, that's all no harm..no shame
God Bless America
Wha?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Exactly....
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Dijimos Ingles.
Estas Milforum... errr... como se dice... rule...
Estas Milforum... errr... como se dice... rule...
Kevin Rudd is now the Australian Prime Minister. Howard was kicked out about 10 months ago. Howards comments were not appreciated by many non-Muslims as well. He was very devisive with his comments.
I do agree that learning the local language and fitting in are important but not always that simple. Where I grew up in Melbourne, their were a number of Greeks and Italians who had difficulty with the language (they were not born in Australia) and clung to their cultural ways for support. There children picked up the language and faired better. The older generation picked up any language skills at their workplace.
The Muslims around Sydney have had more assimilation problems than in Melbourne, sometimes due to geographical differences.
I do agree that learning the local language and fitting in are important but not always that simple. Where I grew up in Melbourne, their were a number of Greeks and Italians who had difficulty with the language (they were not born in Australia) and clung to their cultural ways for support. There children picked up the language and faired better. The older generation picked up any language skills at their workplace.
The Muslims around Sydney have had more assimilation problems than in Melbourne, sometimes due to geographical differences.
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The Other Guy
Spam King
...LOL!! RULE means REGLA in spanish..and yes I know the rules, just trying not 2 b 2 serious, laugh some, smile some
whiskey, tango, foxtrot, over?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
My issue with assimilation is this. If you can't assimilate, then I guess that's how it is. I know for the older people it can be a very very difficult thing to do.
However, if you're not going to assimilate, can you at least PLEASE respect the local way of life?? If you can't do even that, then you are really in the wrong place.
However, if you're not going to assimilate, can you at least PLEASE respect the local way of life?? If you can't do even that, then you are really in the wrong place.
Assimilate?? Great. I know the definition, and like it was said it's harder for older people to assimilate, hey! ur understanding! the things is whether people from other countries assimilate or not..THEY are truly greatful to form part of THIS POWERFUL COUNTRY, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. I know my mother was,..her goal was to give me the opportunity to life in a country where I had the FREEDOM to speak my mind, an education, and right to live in comfort.
So, not every immigrant will assimilate completly but...at least they have the sense of pride we americans do?? ive seen the pride, more than half of my family serves our country, so I KNOW. like my Australian girl said, CHEERS!!!
Question??? Respect was mentioned. Have you noticed that minorities have more respect, than US AMERICANS??? Yep. thought so. Cheers Ozzie girl!
So, not every immigrant will assimilate completly but...at least they have the sense of pride we americans do?? ive seen the pride, more than half of my family serves our country, so I KNOW. like my Australian girl said, CHEERS!!!
Question??? Respect was mentioned. Have you noticed that minorities have more respect, than US AMERICANS??? Yep. thought so. Cheers Ozzie girl!
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Depends on the source, does it say US govt anywhere on it?