Operation Iranian Freedom

Where exactly are you getting 477,800 troops from? Are you talking about Egypt? The US is currently sitting around 1.3 million and we are in the proccess of adding more.

there is no way in hell the U.S. can stand up to the power of North Korea

This comment made me laugh ^
 
Correct my numbers were wrong i was looking at the wrong paper THe correct number is 1.4 Million actualy, and North Korea stands at about 1.2 but, you have to remember they have a strong Civilian backing, we invade there land we probably could expect strong Civilian resistance.


They are tightly packed in a small country, the US forces are rather spead thin with the Occupation of Iraq, and Afganistan, not to mention all of the grease monkeys and cook we have through out the world, at our many many military bases, North Korea only has to defened a small Area, with only 200,000 less troops the the US's entire active miltary.
 
Correct my numbers were wrong i was looking at the wrong paper THe correct number is 1.4 Million actualy, and North Korea stands at about 1.2 but, you have to remember they have a strong Civilian backing, we invade there land we probably could expect strong Civilian resistance.

Yes, strong indeed because people generally back a government that starves, tortures, and in general oppresses them. In fact, if given the opportunity and chance, I'm sure none of them would leave North Korea. That's why thousands defect, errr I mean "visit", South Korea and China every year...

:sarc:
 
Correct my numbers were wrong i was looking at the wrong paper THe correct number is 1.4 Million actualy, and North Korea stands at about 1.2 but, you have to remember they have a strong Civilian backing, we invade there land we probably could expect strong Civilian resistance.


They are tightly packed in a small country, the US forces are rather spead thin with the Occupation of Iraq, and Afganistan, not to mention all of the grease monkeys and cook we have through out the world, at our many many military bases, North Korea only has to defened a small Area, with only 200,000 less troops the the US's entire active miltary.

If NK starts a war they have to worry about their neighbors also. Not just the US. Everyone seems to focus on just the two major parties involved it seems. Now include China and South Korea in the equation. I am sure China would love a piece of NK, so would SK.
 
The question of NK VS. US

North korea and china are allies and always have been. The North Koreans only have to worry about U.S. and South Korea. The united states has aircraft carriers and air bases in Japan, Guam, and South Korea, so if war broke out before the U.S could deploy any significant military forces of at least 750,000 troops in South Korea much like the UN Build up of the Gulf war 1 & 2, North Korea would reign well over 300,000 artillery shells and missiles on Seoul which is close to the DMZ. The NK have a doctrine of huge blitzkrieg on SK before any meaningful American military is deployed on the ground. The NK have the largest special forces in the world in excess of 120,000 commandos trained to infiltrate the rear of the SK lines and reck havoc on supply lines, retreating SK troops, and SK reserves heading for the front. The Americans have a large air assets in and around SK and Japan which the U.S. could rely on to bomb the NK in order to stem their advance. One must remember though that air power alone will not get the job done specially when limited to conventional air bombing. Within the first 24-48hrs the NK plan on capturing Seoul. The U.S. cannot resort to nuclear weapons for 2 main reasons: The Chinese and Russians which share border with NK will not let America use nukes on their backyard which could have sever climate and health factors on their soil and secondly the NK would retailate with nuking SK, Japan, Alaska, Hawaii and California. If the Americans ignored the Russians and the Chinese the war could easily spread into something unimaginable and would pop the genie out of the bottle; and that is the use of nukes. The NK with the huge infantry, armor, and special forces would easily overwhelm the 30k U.S troops and 300k SK troops on the border. The only way to seriously stem the NK advance and likely hood of the capture of SK is the use of nukes, and that is out of the question. If NK ever seemed to be losing, no matter how unlikely it is against SK, you better believe its a whole different ball game, the Chinese and Russians wont allow American troops into NK and at their doorstep. The will either work overtly or covertly to make sure America never captures NK.
 
Iran - Ready to Attack

February 19, 2007
New Stateman
Dan Plesch


American military operations for a major conventional war with Iran could be implemented any day. They extend far beyond targeting suspect WMD facilities and will enable President Bush to destroy Iran's military, political and economic infrastructure overnight using conventional weapons.

British military sources told the New Statesman, on condition of anonymity, that "the US military switched its whole focus to Iran" as soon as Saddam Hussein was kicked out of Baghdad. It continued this strategy, even though it had American infantry bogged down in fighting the insurgency in Iraq.

The US army, navy, air force and marines have all prepared battle plans and spent four years building bases and training for "Operation Iranian Freedom". Admiral Fallon, the new head of US Central Command, has inherited computerised plans under the name TIRANNT (Theatre Iran Near Term).

The Bush administration has made much of sending a second aircraft carrier to the Gulf. But it is a tiny part of the preparations. Post 9/11, the US navy can put six carriers into battle at a month's notice. Two carriers in the region, the USS John C Stennis and the USS Dwight D Eisenhower, could quickly be joined by three more now at sea: USS Ronald Reagan, USS Harry S Truman and USS Theodore Roosevelt, as well as by USS Nimitz. Each carrier force includes hundreds of cruise missiles.

Then there are the marines, who are not tied down fighting in Iraq. Several marine forces are assembling, each with its own aircraft carrier. These carrier forces can each conduct a version of the D-Day landings. They come with landing craft, tanks, jump-jets, thousands of troops and, yes, hundreds more cruise missiles. Their task is to destroy Iranian forces able to attack oil tankers and to secure oilfields and installations. They have trained for this mission since the Iranian revolution of 1979.

Today, marines have the USS Boxer and USS Bataan carrier forces in the Gulf and probably also the USS Kearsarge and USS Bonhomme Richard. Three others, the USS Peleliu, USS Wasp and USS Iwo Jima, are ready to join them. Earlier this year, HQ staff to manage these forces were moved from Virginia to Bahrain.

Vice-President Dick Cheney has had something of a love affair with the US marines, and this may reach its culmination in the fishing villages along Iran's Gulf coast. Marine generals hold the top jobs at Nato, in the Pentagon and are in charge of all nuclear weapons. No marine has held any of these posts before.

Traditionally, the top nuclear job went either to a commander of the navy's Trident submarines or of the air force's bombers and missiles. Today, all these forces follow the orders of a marine, General James Cartwright, and are integrated into a "Global Strike" plan which places strategic forces on permanent 12-hour readiness.

The only public discussion of this plan has been by the American analysts Bill Arkin and Hans Kristensen, who have focused on the possible use of atomic weapons. These concerns are justified, but ignore how forces can be used in conventional war.

Any US general planning to attack Iran can now assume that at least 10,000 targets can be hit in a single raid, with warplanes flying from the US or Diego Garcia. In the past year, unlimited funding for military technology has taken "smart bombs" to a new level.

New "bunker-busting" conventional bombs weigh only 250lb. According to Boeing, the GBU-39 small-diameter bomb "quadruples" the firepower of US warplanes, compared to those in use even as recently as 2003. A single stealth or B-52 bomber can now attack between 150 and 300 individual points to within a metre of accuracy using the global positioning system.

With little military effort, the US air force can hit the last-known position of Iranian military units, political leaders and supposed sites of weapons of mass destruction. One can be sure that, if war comes, George Bush will not want to stand accused of using too little force and allowing Iran to fight back.

"Global Strike" means that, without any obvious signal, what was done to Serbia and Lebanon can be done overnight to the whole of Iran. We, and probably the Iranians, would not know about it until after the bombs fell. Forces that hide will suffer the fate of Saddam's armies, once their positions are known.

The whole of Iran is now less than an hour's flying time from some American base or carrier. Sources in the region as well as trade journals confirm that the US has built three bases in Azerbaijan that could be transit points for troops and with facilities equal to its best in Europe.

Most of the Iranian army is positioned along the border with Iraq, facing US army missiles that can reach 150km over the border. But it is in the flat, sandy oilfields east and south of Basra where the temptation will be to launch a tank attack and hope that a disaffected population will be grateful.

The regime in Tehran has already complained of US- and UK-inspired terror attacks in several Iranian regions where the population opposes the ayatollahs' fanatical policies. Such reports corroborate the American journalist Seymour Hersh's claim that the US military is already engaged in a low-level war with Iran. The fighting is most intense in the Kurdish north where Iran has been firing artillery into Iraq. The US and Iran are already engaged in a low-level proxy war across the Iran-Iraq border.

And, once again, the neo-cons at the American Enterprise Institute have a plan for a peaceful settlement: this time it is for a federal Iran. Officially, Michael Ledeen, the AEI plan's sponsor, has been ostracised by the White House. However, two years ago, the Congress of Iranian Nationalities for a Federal Iran had its inaugural meeting in London.

We should not underestimate the Bush administration's ability to convince itself that an "Iran of the regions" will emerge from a post-rubble Iran.

Dan Plesch is a research associate at the School of Oriental and African Studies
link to original article

The U.S. military alone may be ready, but, I dont think the American Public (which has grown soft in my opinion) wont like the idea of more deaths on the news due to a war with Iran, plus , American Politicians keep on talking on pulling out of Iraq. And, even if Bush does invade Iran, he wont be in office to finish the job forever, a new president will be elected soon, and, it very unlikely that there will be another president on the the same lines as Bush, no matter how you look at it.
 
A war against a small, clustered population would not have to be nuclear. The US and other nations are developing Cruise Supersonic Missiles with conventional warheads. The missile would have a multi targeting warhead of scored tungsten rods designed to shatter and penetrate concrete and armor in a circular pattern covering many (not known) square meters. When the warhead reenters the atmosphere, the clustered warheads separate and each is guided to a predetermined target by GPS guidance.
Each warhead is a metal storm in itself.
 
So the MX missile basically in a compact cruise missile form utilizing conventional warheads? Nice. Me likey.
 
It would be very unwise to launch a ground invasion of iran. With our forces in the positision their in. The problem is we don't have enough troops. So we must develope a plan...

Now, I want you all to think about something. I want you all to think "What would Curtis LeMay do?" See? you remember that gung ho USAF commander and it doesn't take a military history expert to say that he would say blow the hell outta them. :avi:

I say we launch artillery barrages, Air strikes and good ol' fashion carpet bombing campiagns on Iran. Blow them straight to hell, burn every building of every city to the ground. send Bomber Wing after Bomber Wing into the skies of Iran make city in Iran into a glow in the dark replica of 1945 Dresden, bomb Iran to the point it earns its place in the genius book of world records as the largest fireworks display known to man and then bomb some more... Bomb it until the Iranians cry for mercy and do it so loud that it it will eco across the ends of the earth for a 1000 years.

:firedevi:
 
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I feel ya but I hope you're wrong on the last count.

As for the Soviet Union they imploded from a bankrupt economy propping up a morally bankrupt political system. Very different ballgame with a small oil rich country run by religious fanatics. The level of dedication of those who do support the current regime will not be shaken by blue jeans and rock n roll. They're in this game for heaven and 70 virgins and we've got nothing on offer to top it. Religion gone bad is dangerous in that the ties that bind one to a belief defy logic.

What 99.9% of people including very exterme muslims do not know is that it is not 70 virgins but 70 jail bubbas. :smile: And I don't think they are gonna like that once they given their lives for martyrdom.
 
Another reasonable thought is this..If paradise lasts forever, then your 72 virgins will have become old news pretty fast.
What are you supposed to do next?

On a more personal note. 72?!? I have my hands full with one woman at a time...
 
I say we launch artillery barrages, Air strikes and good ol' fashion carpet bombing campiagns on Iran. Blow them straight to hell, burn every building of every city to the ground. send Bomber Wing after Bomber Wing into the skies of Iran make city in Iran into a glow in the dark replica of 1945 Dresden, bomb Iran to the point it earns its place in the genius book of world records as the largest fireworks display known to man and then bomb some more... Bomb it until the Iranians cry for mercy and do it so loud that it it will eco across the ends of the earth for a 1000 years.


you're joking, right?
 
America is powerful, but in war the biggest mistake you can do is to underestimate the power and tenacity of your enemy and overestimate your own's. America can do a bombing strike on Iran we all know that; but Iran is no Iraq, they have a modern military force, huge population to draw from, its own Arms industry, large naval presence in Persian Gulf, large missile force, highly motivated military; therefore, bomobing Iran though possible is no small feat.

America has strong military that is highly trained but with its troops tide down in Iraq and Afghanistan, with some of its Carrier battle groups except for 2 all tide also in the Pacific againt the North Korean threat, most of its allies have had no stomach to support America in Iraq let alone Iran even their staunchest ally the British now sayin they will not participate in a war against Iran and the the stepping down of the Blair government, America is no shape or form in a position to wage a successful campaign against Iran in the near future unless their is huge commitment from NATO which is highly unlikely. The price of gas will sky rocket, the Persian Gulf will be closed and you will see nothing but a fire fight their.

Iran has tremendous influence in Iraq, we are currently fighting a mostly Sunni led insurgency that proved to be devastating but the Iranian will make sure their is a wide spread Shiite insurgency so that the Americans will be more tide down in Iraq. They will also have Hezbollah stir up fight in the Israeli-Lebanese border and before we know it this thing is going to spiral out of control throughout the middle east and you better believe that this time around we will have even less allies then the first time around when we invaded Iraq.

Invading Iran or even bombing it is no easy task today but it is do-able but the consequences it will have will far out weigh the gains will make. So at the end of the day it is not the smartest thing or most logical thing to stir trouble with Iran.
 
I predict the conventional war against Iran would be a short one ie: airwar to dispose of the larger part of Irans capacity to fight a war...If you decide to occupy..Another story alltogether.
 
Like my statement in the my last post I state; America has tremendous power and nobody discounts that everyone knows but sometimes even the strongest power has limits, Their is no way America at the present stage being tide down in Iraq and Afghanistan and guarding against North Korea can at the sametime wage a fullfledged war against Iran for the purpose of heavly decapitating it. In history one of the crucial mistakes superpowers have made time and time over is fighting at too many fronts simultenously were it always ends horribly for that power.

Lets look at the Iranian case and the different scenarios that can take place:
Firstly, an airwar in which case it just won't end that easly cuz Iran will retailate against our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and stir Shiite uprising in Iraq to compliment the already fullfledge Sunni rebellion. Hezbollah will strike Israel on Iran's order, the price of oil will sky rocket, the Persian Gulf will become a battle ground, and our allies will not back us; thus, we will entangle ourselves in more mess than we can handle and things will be worse then they are now.

Secondly, we can't apply the North Korean and Iraq example of strangling Iran of economically to the point the ppl and the regime we'll be weakend, this is because Iran has more allies in the world than Iraq under Saddam and North Korea do, Iran is also self sufficient in most areas and has had Russia, China, India, and South Africa amongst many others invest in Iran thus making it that much harder to have those countries come aboard in strangling of Iran economically in any meaningful way.

Thirdly, Iran has build up their armed forces heavily and created a large navy for the sole purpose of wreaking havoc in the Persian Gulf. They built up their arms industry with their own technology and technology they purchased from abroad so they dont rely soley on arms import which can be hard to get in times of war.

Fourth, Iran has hidden and dispersed their military industry making it hard to detect. And their population is highly motivated and have showen time and time again rise up to defend their country in time of invasions. Their land mass is 3 times the size of Iraq and and their population is 2.5 times that of Iraq thus making it that much difficult to wage full war against them while we are tide down in other places. The Iranian population doesn't have dictators like some of our allies like Egypt and Saudi Arabia they have the closest thing to democracy in the middle east other than Israel. Thus making it that hard to have the ppl rise up.

So the best thing at this moment in the case of Iran is diplomacy. We need to be careful in the actions we take so we don't involve ourselves in a quagmire that will be hard to get out of and thats gona suck men and material from the America military that are need in other places.
 
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