N.Korea

soldierzhonor said:
I'd agree that the war wouldnt be a quick one like Desert Storm or as easy as Enduring Freedom, but North Korea knows it would get its arse handed to them by the United States and its allies. Why have we not attacked North Korea as of yet? Why should we? The sanctions imposed have crippled the North Koreans. FlyingFrog, I respect you for sticking up for your country and have seen you trying to ward off several attacks from other forum goers. My question to you would be this...is China waiting for the United States to attack so they can jump in once again? Now to answer the main question here. Would the US attack N Korea....no, we are still at war with N Korea but have an armistice. The Korean war in the first place was a UN operation. Is it to be believed that we would attack without UN approval or a UN resolution backing the attack? If so on what grounds is this assumption? N Korea is the one who has agreed to walk away from the nuclear arms race before for aid. It was given to them. Now they try using it again for a bargaining chip. Why would they use it for a bargaining chip? Ok so they have I believe it was 3 or 4 nuclear weapons....we have thousands. We could turn them into a ghost country but do we threaten them with our nukes?

p.s. my apologies for my other post.
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There is also something called MAD you know.
 
In my opinion one of the major reasons the US does not attack is no economic gain, but that is MY opinion. I agree with soldierzhonor that FlyingFrog should comment Chinese intervention.

But I would also like to ask how would thousands of dead Americns look on the home front. Ti is known that the USA has never been too tollerant of mass casualties. I personaly have no doubt the USA would win with ease from a military perspective, but shouldn't that have also happened in Vietnam :?:

About nukes I doubt the N Korea would be able to launch them before their missile sites would get wiped out and where would they aim? Tokio? They can't reach the USA yet.
 
soldierzhonor said:
I'd agree that the war wouldnt be a quick one like Desert Storm or as easy as Enduring Freedom, but North Korea knows it would get its arse handed to them by the United States and its allies. Why have we not attacked North Korea as of yet? Why should we? The sanctions imposed have crippled the North Koreans. FlyingFrog, I respect you for sticking up for your country and have seen you trying to ward off several attacks from other forum goers. My question to you would be this...is China waiting for the United States to attack so they can jump in once again? Now to answer the main question here. Would the US attack N Korea....no, we are still at war with N Korea but have an armistice. The Korean war in the first place was a UN operation. Is it to be believed that we would attack without UN approval or a UN resolution backing the attack? If so on what grounds is this assumption? N Korea is the one who has agreed to walk away from the nuclear arms race before for aid. It was given to them. Now they try using it again for a bargaining chip. Why would they use it for a bargaining chip? Ok so they have I believe it was 3 or 4 nuclear weapons....we have thousands. We could turn them into a ghost country but do we threaten them with our nukes?

p.s. my apologies for my other post.
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soldierzhonor:

is China waiting for the United States to attack so they can jump in once again?

Of course China/Chinese don't want to have any war with nobody, let alone USA. China has always been trying to be friendly with USA, but USA seems like to treat China as an enemy. In the case of N.Korea, I think China will not sit there to watch how N.Korea is attacked and finished by USA, Chinese old saying: when the lips are gone, the teeth will feel cold soon, China does not want to have a hostile country on the border, that's also main reason why China entered Korea War.

The Korean war in the first place was a UN operation

We all know at that time in 1950, USA controls the UN, even now :D
UN operation in Korea War? Not really, it was simply an American operation.

N Korea is the one who has agreed to walk away from the nuclear arms race before for aid. It was given to them. Now they try using it again for a bargaining chip.

Two points here:
1) N.Korea as a nation, it has right to protect herself with all means, thus Nukes. India may test nukes, why not N.Korea? Why some countries may have nukes, no one goes to check our Israel nukes, but why only pick up those countries which USA does not like? Double standards?
2) N.Korea wants USA to sign non-aggression pact, why USA just does not want to sign? So ask N.Koreans to disarm nukes, then attack them like killing a chicken? Makes no sense.

Ok so they have I believe it was 3 or 4 nuclear weapons....we have thousands. We could turn them into a ghost country but do we threaten them with our nukes?

USA will not work alone, USA must think about Japan and S.Korea, if N.Koreans are driven mad, they will not hesitate to lauch nukes (if they have) into Japan.

Last:
Personally I think Chinese and American can be big pals in the near future, there is no fundamental conflicts btw these 2 nations, it these 2 nations can act together in world affairs, jesus, no one can stop them, world will be in good peace :D
 
China does not want to have a hostile country on the border, that's also main reason why China entered Korea War.
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Really...And I was under the impression that Mao was looking for a way to unite his people around hes young regieme, and what better than an outside enemy... ;)

UN operation in Korea War? Not really, it was simply an American operation
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The UN was reacting to what was pure agression by the North Koreans. While the major force was American, other nations sent troops as well.

N.Korea as a nation, it has right to protect herself with all means, thus Nukes. India may test nukes, why not N.Korea? Why some countries may have nukes, no one goes to check our Israel nukes, but why only pick up those countries which USA does not like? Double standards?
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Hmm...Lets see...probably because India is a democracy, and so is Israel...Israel never once threatened to use its Nukes, the N. Koreans imply it whenever a US invasion seems near.

N.Korea wants USA to sign non-aggression pact, why USA just does not want to sign? So ask N.Koreans to disarm nukes, then attack them like killing a chicken? Makes no sense.
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Hitler was in a non-agression pack with the USSR before he invaded..So? I wouldent bet a dime on the promises of a non-democratic and agressive regieme.

USA will not work alone, USA must think about Japan and S.Korea, if N.Koreans are driven mad, they will not hesitate to lauch nukes (if they have) into Japan.
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And this is why they shouldent have nukes. If you are willing to use them first, with no prior attack on you with WMDs, than you are not a country that should have one. Notice that Israel always says: "We will not be the first ones to intreduce WMDs to the region"...Why do the N. Koreans use their nukes as a respons to conventional warfare?

Personally I think Chinese and American can be big pals in the near future, there is no fundamental conflicts btw these 2 nations, it these 2 nations can act together in world affairs, jesus, no one can stop them, world will be in good peace
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Hmmm...Well:

A)They do have a disagreemant- PRC is a regieme that is non-democratic and non-liberal. The Chinese continue to sell the US all they can yet try to buy as little as possible. The PRC plays hard-ball, and its playing with the wrong country, cause once the US will set its sights on the PRC, there will be a change of regieme in China.

B) I certinly hope that the current Chinese regieme will not play a major part in the world, because i see it as un-just.
 
FlyingFrog said:
Of course China/Chinese don't want to have any war with nobody, let alone USA. China has always been trying to be friendly with USA, but USA seems like to treat China as an enemy. In the case of N.Korea, I think China will not sit there to watch how N.Korea is attacked and finished by USA, Chinese old saying: when the lips are gone, the teeth will feel cold soon, China does not want to have a hostile country on the border, that's also main reason why China entered Korea War.

so thats why China and Russia oppose ANY proposals the US puts into the UN? Maybe you havent been informed that we are in the process of lowering our number of troops in S. Korea? And how can 37,000 troops be considered a hostile intention of invasion into North Korea?

We all know at that time in 1950, USA controls the UN, even now :D
UN operation in Korea War? Not really, it was simply an American operation.

If the US controls the UN then explain how the UN hasnt sent in peacekeepers from throughout the world to Iraq?

N Korea is the one who has agreed to walk away from the nuclear arms race before for aid. It was given to them. Now they try using it again for a bargaining chip. Id like to reemphasize this

Two points here:
1) N.Korea as a nation, it has right to protect herself with all means, thus Nukes. India may test nukes, why not N.Korea? Why some countries may have nukes, no one goes to check our Israel nukes, but why only pick up those countries which USA does not like? Double standards?

I dont recall Israel promising a disarming program for aid.....correct me if Im wrong here?

2) N.Korea wants USA to sign non-aggression pact, why USA just does not want to sign? So ask N.Koreans to disarm nukes, then attack them like killing a chicken? Makes no sense.

again I ask....N. Korea uses this as an excuse to stall. 37,000 troops is hostile aggression? Now also look at this next scenario....N. Korea is massed on the 38th parallel. The United States is withdrawing troops. N. Korea still masses troops and now goes back on a treaty to disarm but has built nukes WHILE they are believed to be disarmed. Now I ask you my friend....who should trust who? The country who is constantly staging for war or the country who is drawing down and held their end of a treaty that was broken by the other side?

USA will not work alone, USA must think about Japan and S.Korea, if N.Koreans are driven mad, they will not hesitate to lauch nukes (if they have) into Japan.

Now show me at least one reason Japan would walk away from their constitution which uses their military for defensive actions only? Persian Gulf maybe? If thats what your thinking, now show me committed combat troops not support personnel such as a hospital. N. Korea is only using these crazy accusations to stall so they can go back on their word even more. Why sign a non aggression pact with a country who hasnt stuck with previous pacts and agreements?

Last:
Personally I think Chinese and American can be big pals in the near future, there is no fundamental conflicts btw these 2 nations, it these 2 nations can act together in world affairs, jesus, no one can stop them, world will be in good peace

yes if we work together alot can be accomplished. For some reason I just cant see China who is striving to be a world power, work with someone they have to contend with on that right. China uses the excuse of "a strong country on our border" to attack us but still get beaten back those 50 years ago.
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Hmmm...

Why does the US buy a lot from China? Well, maybe their products are cheaper? No?

Why does China buy less from the US? What do you want Chinese to buy from the US? Products and services that can't compete with Japanese. Weaponries? The US is selling large amount of weapons to Taiwan while refuse to sell any to Chinese.

Computer and biological technology are the only sound investments for Chinese to buy. And I am sure a lot of US companies are making profits from this kind of deals. Cars? What new technologies that Japanese car manufacturers don't have? Bring them on!

During the Chinese civil war, the US supportted a corrupt Nationalist party.(Nationalist government was under dictatorship). So tell me what Justified action was that? Instead of helping China to achieve more democratic, you blindly label Chinese as your enemy. So tell me, what are you thinking besides creating enemies. Basically, you just cant tolerate other systems. Geez, if you really want democracy shine at every corner of the world, help them to build, rather than threaten them. And you help TW by helping China to reach democracy faster, instead you create a military tension throughout the region. If you want China to change its attitudes and system, help them to develop and build its infrastructure instead of forcing it to change.

Bearing with the attitude of "I am the Almighty. I can crush you in any ways I want" is sure not helping with problems. And you always talk about peace yet you don't offer peace planning that tailors other's cultures and beliefs except bullying attitudes and animosities. Good job there, I know you can crush anyone or everyone, but so what. With that, please hang the word of "Peace" around your lips, because your attitude at this time is sure running at opposite direction. Your definition of peace is not about Giving, but about whose got a bigger gun, and the US style democacy in every country, doesn't matter what differences other bears.

Time moved on. And stop that Mao's stuffs, ok? China is trying to change. And Chinese are trying to be friends. Can you work with that?

Oh btw, China's rejection of joining the US to attack Iraq is maybe a reason of you thinking Chinese governement is unft to join the world event. Maybe in your mind, Chinese has no capabilities to see what is right from wrong. Ya, those Evil Chinese that you just love to imagine, they are very funny!
 
The greatest reason not to attack North Korea is the danger of provoking China IMO. Whether China agrees with some of the current policies of N. Korea, I don't know if they're willing to give up the buffer zone with the US and allies. Unless China was a part of the coalition going in, or at least was to agree to the necessity of the invasion, I don't think that the USA will be invading anytime soon.
 
FlyingFrog said:
Do you think seriously that USA will attack N.Korea?

It seems USA cannot even handle a small N.Korea, what are the Americans afraid of from N.Koreans? Learned big lesson from Korea War?

Seems N.Korea has almost nothing decent in their military arsenal, yet USA dares not to take on N.Korea like Iraq, why?
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If the six-party talks fail and North Korea tests a nuclear weapon. I think the US will invade North Korea along with a international coalition, Russia, South Korea, UK, China, etc. Although casulties will be high, it is better to take out the Stalinist regime before they get even more powerful and sell Nukes to Terrorists. Expect this war to have around 2 million deaths.
 
We have nothing to gain by attacking NK. I think most people see them as the joke that they are. They act like a scared kid saying hes gona shoot you with his dads gun. The US would crush NK. But it wouldnt be overnight, like someone else said they have been digging in for 50 years.
 
Do the research. North Korea has a million man army who are fanatical in their support for Kim sung Il, as are a great many of the populace. Along the DMZ there are artillery pieces that can range Seoul.
The North Koreans have Nuclear, biological, and chemical capabilities and would not hesitate to deploy said weapons on the civilian populace.
The U.S.'s primary responsibilty is to it's allie South Korea in aiding that nation to remain independant. Not to invade or cause an incident with North Korea.
The Korean War was a United Nations effort and yes we should have learned from that. Lesson one. Don't go to war as part of the UN.
 
Many of you may not know, who really wants N.Korea to have nukes? S.Koreans. Cannot believe it? Think about it.

S.Koreans would like to see a nuclear powerd N.Korea, anyway it is their brothers, and BOTH Korea's want to unite with hearts. A Great Korea is the dream of the awakened koreans especially those Koreans in the Sourth after they become rich for the first time in their whole history, then the Nationalism comes.
 
Chocobo_Blitzer said:
Flying frog, perhaps you think that if Korea becomes one again, that they would become a threat to asia? Like China?
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Not a real threat to Asia, anyway Korea is btw China and Japan, almost no way out.

But you never know.

For Chinese, we know them much better than you guys do.

The sense of national pride in Korea may cause big problem in Chinese/Korean border when Korea got nukes and they are united and getting richer and richer.

You never know, a small but strong country can beat a big country, we know that in China/Japan wars. Japan has been a pupil of China for thousands years, but yet when Japan got stronger in military, they can turn their guns against their old master.

So, we see things quite differently, anyway, how knows Asians better than Asians :D
 
Chocobo_Blitzer said:
Yeah I was just curious- say, isn't a big myth in Korea that part of upper China is actually apart of Korea?
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Yeah I am glad to hear that you know quite well about other countries.

Last 3 month there was (still is) a big fight btw Chinese and Koreans both in public and governments.

The Koreans think one of their old dead kingdom "Gaojuli" was established in Chinese Northern Province (part of Manchuria), but this old kingdom was conqured and destroyed by Chinese 1500 years ago, and Chinese treat this issue a bit different than Koreans treat it. Complex story, you may find info on net.
 
The whole South Koreans want the North to have nukes sounds like some Pyongyang generated propaganda to me.
I could see why the North wants a unification as the goverment has failed miserably in its ability to provide even the basic food for its citizens.
Having served on several occasions with ROK Marines I never met one who wanted nor trusted the leadership or intentions of Kim Il Sung or Kim Sung Il.
 
The #1 problem with the idea of reuniting Korea is North Korea. They are only willing to accept a "reunification" where the South completely submits to their unquestioned rule and to the rule of Communism. The reason that South Korea's wealth and economy is MUCH stronger than the North is because they have not been living under Communist rule and under a market economy they have been better off. The North is so hardcore Communist, that they are unable to accept anything less than their system and their rule being fully implemented in the South. Their demand is something akin to a spoiled child not letting anyone else play with their toys, and its completely counterproductive to any hope of Korean reunificaiton. Korea could be reunited tomorrow if it weren't for this.
 
The North would never reunify under an elected goverment. Like I said Pyongyang generated Propaganda. North Koreans have a skewered version of history. The U.S. invaded the North ON 6/25/1950, the U.S. tortures and kills South Koreans. etc. 'etc..
The whole South wants the North to have Nukes concept has Pyongyang Prop-Agit stamped all over it.
 
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