Marines? Simply Mindless Killing Machines?

Buzzcut

Active member
Well a pacificist friend of mine just emailed me an article about how a kid died from Marine Boot Camp because he had drowned during a pool exercise . Well... he's always desuaded me from joining the Corps, saying you're just there to be trained as a "mindless killing machine." http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/mari-f25.shtml.
My apologies if this topic is overtalked or rather "beating the dead horse" once more, but I couldn't find any thread talking about this so-- alright, getting to my point here...
Is Marine Boot Camp and serving overseas really the personality-obliterating, backbreaking, PTSD-reckoning experience that countless conservative articles preach about like the one I just posted?
Or [most likely] could they be wrong/biased in many ways considering the author of the article Claire Hurley a.k.a. sit-at-home-all-day-Soccer-Mama bashes on the U.S. military [or Marine Corps. in general] for being 'deceitful,' immoral, and doing whatever means to turn supposedly innocent 18-year old kiddos into some psyched out killer like 'Gomer Pyle' from Full Metal Jacket, even though that person has never served in any military branch.
Personally, I don't believe the article fervently, I think personality can be retained even through tramautic experiences, most of the former/active duty Marines I know are self-composed, level-headed, funny at many times -- everything opposite of what the article describes.
Anyways, just wondering what your 2 cents are on the whole bloody topic.. especially for any former or currently serving Marines in this forum.
 
Don't you just love pu$$y intellectuals who think up high-minded concepts to justify their cowardice, in short they're in denial.

Anyway, as any modern millitary man will tell you the modern battlefield is all about the brain. It was best put that the infantry squad is 13 men, the size of a professional football team, and just like that football team who has to go into the Superbowl, soldiers have to fight with brains and teamwork moreso than just brute force. The only difference is that for an infantryman their superbowl is every single day in combat. So the infantry squad needs 9 months to a year of training to be combat effective. So what do you think they're doing for that year together? Just doing pushups and being brainwashed? No, they have to learn the comroderie that our go-to-work-and-go-to-your-TV isolationist society no longer teaches, they have to learn all kinds of things to live on the battlefield.

All this large pontificating is to display that the U.S. Millitary (sorry to offend, I'm being patriotic guys) has the smartest and most well trained soldiers in the world, a far cry from the liberal delusion of the dumb brute who has been brainwashed to kill kill kill. Just remember that as trite as it may sound, these disgusting stereotypes are made possible by the very men they ignorantly seek to disparage.
 
Ok I'd like to say a couple of things on this. First- yeah I'm not American so take this as such. Second- I find this thread hugely interesting.
Third: I have known many Marines in my life, and a certain number of Veterans. I just thought I should give my opinion in here. Seldom have I met people that were so informed, so down-to-earth. One of their qualities is that they always have a grasp on reality, which is precisely what people think they don't. And they know that loyalty, courage and dignity are. Like Wispering Death put it, they are taught things that the rest of the world has learned to forget, and that's unfortunate.
In short, I never found they were that "broken down and built up again", or if they were, well the outcome was definitely not a "killing machine".
My 2 cents.
 
I have always found them to be very profesional.
I spent 2 months with their aviation units and other than a lot of heated debates they were a good bunch of blokes.
Like most yanks the "piss taking " went over their heads a bit but ehy suffered the aussie humour with a lot of good sportmanship.
Did find some to be aggressive but that was a small minority.
Boot camp is tough, supposed to be. Many countries have accidents during training. No one wants it to happen but infortunatley sometimes it does.
 
My father was a Marine who saw the bloodiest fighting in several battles in the Pacific during WWII. Most likely the Corps' most violent epoch. He was nearly killed more than once and was severely wounded such that it was a miracle he survived. He went thru all that and yet he was the most caring, thoughtful and loving man I ever knew. My father did well in life, but he could've done much better. He didn't do so because he was constantly giving his money away to those in need. You tell me that he was a "mindless killing machine".
 
Hmmmm...
I can tell by the article, if accurate, that this guy was completely in the wrong place. And what's up with the grant? If you don't complete your service, or you aren't actually IN the service (passed boot camp) you shouldn't be eligible for a grant.
Join the Marines to earn money for college? Just how retarded is that? I think if the Marines made one mistake, it was to try to hang on to this reject.
 
Yeah, Charge, that's a good answer. Uhm but didn't you say your parents were liberal?

No, never said that. I said they were independents as am I. They voted for whoever they felt was best for the job. In the Presidential elections my father voted for Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and finally the first President Bush. He was dead by the 1996 election. I wouldn't call that a liberal's voting record.
 
Charge 7 said:
In the Presidential elections my father voted for Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and finally the first President Bush. He was dead by the 1996 election. I wouldn't call that a liberal's voting record.

No I don't think I'd call that a liberal record either. So who do you think he would have voted for in 96, 01 and 04?
 
Me neither but marines are not mindless machines. In fact they are some of the coolest people you'll ever get a chance to meet.
 
If it wasn't the Marines being picked out to slander, it would have been any branch of service that came to this person's brain stem. Accidents happen in every branch of the service in every country in the world. I have a friend who was a captain in the Army National Guard and was on duty at Ft. Hood. He saw a soldier hitting on a tank track with a sledge hammer. A sliver of metal came off the hammer or the track and went through his heart, killing him instantly. The odds were pretty astronomical but it happened and everyone had to just suck it up and get back to work. Sht happens.
 
to some extend, we can say that. marine , or others, they cannot disagree with the order but to obey
but since they are humans, they can do what they like to do in other field.
 
Why generalize like this on the USMC? There have been tons of people that have died during mountain training in the SAS, I'm sure NAVY SEALS arn't too far behind either. Also, [sarcasm]I just love how they don't even go into the incident about how he died in the first place, and whether his DI was responsible or not[/sarcasm].
 
Basic training is meant to be tough. If you have any doubts about your physical state don't do it. I had to forfit going on a SNCO course, because i felt slightly sick. While the course was going on, the Doc at the hospital said I was in the early stages of pnemonia, fortunatly it is gone now but it takes about a year to fully recover, so Im not doing anymore couseres till the end of the year. Had I done the SNCO course I would have been in a hell of a lot trouble. The thing with the young bloke dying in Basic, do you know the full story?, dose your mate?, no offence meant but I doubt either of you do. Yes a death is a serious concern, but you have to know the whole story. The kid was probably not up to the intense course but not willing to admit it and pushed himself way to far.
Now the USMC being "mindless killing machines", you have to be kidding me right. The only "people" that fill that position are terrorists. Terrorists kill innocent people to make some half minded political point. The USMC fight either soldiers or terrorists because the US government has a well thought out plan of what to achieve in a conflict zone. Beleive it or not, killing people is not the sole purpose of Basic training. It is an aspect, in self defence, or on Tactical ops, but not the whole course. In basic you learn hence the name all the basics. Everything you need to know to survive in your career is taught to you.
 
As all of us know Boot Camp, Basic Training, AIT, BIT, and the whole kitten kaboodal are meant to be tough to train those who may go to war.

Mod Edit: You obviously don't get it either, paragraph removed for complete inaccuracy. You have been warned before.
 
Consider the source of that article "World Socialist Web Site". Hardly a bastion of objectivity. I read the article and the proof of just how out of touch the author is with 21st century training doctrine is clearly demonstrated in the following exerpt.

The videotape shows Tharp being grabbed by his uniform and “forearmed” by the instructor in the presence of four other recruits, an instance of abuse that, if anything, seems mild given the reputation of Marine boot camp. The brutal treatment of recruits is hardly a secret. It is, in fact, something the Marine Corps promotes as necessary to forge young people into “the few and the proud” and has already been the subject of such films as Full Metal Jacket (1987).

To base your knowledge of military training of a 1987 film that was out of date when it was made is just stupid.

As to the grant issue, it is clear that the educational grant had nothing to do with the military, it had to do with getting a Pell grant after he had left the military.
I still don’t think I belong here, and I think I should go home and get a grant.”

More proof of the folly of this article lies in this statement.
Relentlessly humiliating recruits for showing signs of fear and weakness is an essential part of the training process.
Ah, no it isn't.


Here's another inane statement.
Recognizing the limits to which the human spirit can be forced to carry out indiscriminate acts of homicidal brutality under the guise of fighting to spread “freedom and democracy,” and the increasing resistance this will provoke, the army reportedly plans to spend $127 billion on developing robot soldiers, representing the biggest military contract in US history, driving the already record-large military budget up by another 20 percent (New York Times, February 16, 2005). The military hopes to deploy robots, capable of firing 1,000 rounds of ammunition a minute, as early as this April in Iraq.
As far as I can see, this is the Army's way of protecting our soldiers while still accomplishing its mission. " indiscriminate acts of homicidal brutality" :lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe we should go into combat with marshmallow artillery or nerf cruise missiles?
 
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