42RM
Banned
Where..!
Mandatory Military Service a good idea or a bad one?
brinktk
Active member
I would attack anywhere since I have automatic weapons and they have polearms and pikes...
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Interesting answer Opa, thank you.
Rdub549
New Member
OP, I don't ever think that mandatory service is a good idea. Sure some would toughen up, but you'd have far more people hating the service they were doing for their country and either not doing a good job or dissenting.
Instead of making military service mandatory, what would need to be done is commercializing the military (i.e. product placement, not businesses owning the military
)
If I can say this without catching too much heat, it seems to be working quite well with the US. Instilling a sense of national pride in military service is the best way to get people to join and WANT to do the best they can for their country instead of HAVING to do hard and even deadly labor day after day.
Not only that, but what if we drafted somebody whose best calling was in something the country needed at home?
We still need farmers, mechanists, industrialists, news anchors, teachers, computer programmers, fashion designers, assembly line workers, and many MANY others. We would lose many of these whose calling wasn't in the military.
2 cents from a trainee given.
Instead of making military service mandatory, what would need to be done is commercializing the military (i.e. product placement, not businesses owning the military
)If I can say this without catching too much heat, it seems to be working quite well with the US. Instilling a sense of national pride in military service is the best way to get people to join and WANT to do the best they can for their country instead of HAVING to do hard and even deadly labor day after day.
Not only that, but what if we drafted somebody whose best calling was in something the country needed at home?
We still need farmers, mechanists, industrialists, news anchors, teachers, computer programmers, fashion designers, assembly line workers, and many MANY others. We would lose many of these whose calling wasn't in the military.
2 cents from a trainee given.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
On the surface I would love to agree however it seems bemoaning the youth of today in not something new:
“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”
― Socrates
What this tells us is that despite what their elders may think of them when push came to shove the lazy, indolent youth of at least every generation since Socrates has stood up and made themselves known, while part of me believes in conscription or national service the reality is that it is not essential.
muscogeemike
Active member
Again, as a former VN draftee, I still don’t support a military draft. Although I agree with Robert Heinlein that the rights of citizenship should be earned somehow - not just be a privilege of birth.
I also agree that if the draft was re-instated women should be as eligible as men although I don‘t see a way around their always having the “pregnancy option“. I was vocal about my opinion of women not being subject to the draft during the era of “equal opportunities” in the US Army (meaning that as long as I, or my sons, could be drafted and sent to war and a female couldn’t - things were not equal).
This resulted in a bad Efficiency Report for me in the early ‘70’s.
I also agree that if the draft was re-instated women should be as eligible as men although I don‘t see a way around their always having the “pregnancy option“. I was vocal about my opinion of women not being subject to the draft during the era of “equal opportunities” in the US Army (meaning that as long as I, or my sons, could be drafted and sent to war and a female couldn’t - things were not equal).
This resulted in a bad Efficiency Report for me in the early ‘70’s.
LeEnfield
Active member
During a major war it is understandable to have conscription, but during peace time I would disagree with it. Now you have got your established in a good civilian job and are making a success of life. What happens next you are called up just to keep the numbers up in the forces as the government does not want to pay the people in forces a decent wage to attract enough recruits, and those they call up they don't even pay them the same a regular soldier, yet they expect you to serve your country and to die for it. To quite honest they are just taking the p1ss.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I agree with you, but not completely. There is a problem to generalize about conscription or a professional military. If a country has no security issues with its neighbors, they can have a professional military, if they do, it can be more problematic to have a professional army. During a major armed conflict, it might benefit a country to have conscription, but if the country does not react fast enough, they will not have the time to shift from a professional to conscription, due to the time required to train these conscripts.
Then I have questions to you, Der Alte. You have been an officer through the Cold War in a conscript military. Did you see a decline with each generation? Was it a difference between the recruits in the 1960s and the 1970s? Further, do you think it had been better if the Bundeswehr had been a professional military during the Cold War?
Der Alte
Banned
Yes and no, in the sense that young people's physique is decreasing year by year, but then their technological knowledge is increasing. In the 60s they were accustomed to do hard manual work. Many came from an agricultural or factory job. Motivation was high and they had no issues with authority. These conditions are not present today.
From the mid 1950s, there suddenly was a very widespread military service commitment in Germany. The Cold War had begun, and the world stood for the first time facing the possibility of a nuclear, devastating war. It made the young men very confident and gave them the will to do military service. Although the Second World War was not far away in their consciousness, then the fear of a life under Soviet rule were more substantial, and so the odds were for a really great support for the military in the period.
Quite different however, was the end of the 60s. The youth Rebellion in '68 was the most obvious landmark in that period. For the young people it was now peace and love rather than war, and suddenly all interest in military training disappeared among marijuana pipes and flourished Volkswagen. You saw the military as an opponent and it was not a part of the youth rebels universe, that they should do military service.
Moreover, the U.S. war in Vietnam was extremely unpopular in Europe. Military service was regarded as being a mercenary in support of the imperialist America's war
No, it would not be economically feasible. During the Cold War, it was necessary to train volumes of conscripts, because territorial defense required a large reserve, while preparing for a war that thankfully never came. Compulsory military training occupies enormous resources in the military. The "factory" that trained conscripts during the Cold War had a different justification, because it required a large reserve to withstand a war with the Warsaw Pact.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Thank you, Herr Oberst,
The attitudes were the same in Sweden, according from what I have heard from people who were around and in the Swedish military throughout the cold war. I was in the conscription in the end of 1980s. Gorby changed people’s attitude to a great deal. However, the Swedes always felt some what protected by the Baltic Sea as a barrier between us and the Soviets, except from the northern part. The Finnish have a different attitude; they haven't changed much since the end of the Cold War. I don't know if their (the Finnish) attitude followed the same pattern as in Germany or in Sweden. I will ask the next time I meet someone from Finland
Der alte,
You say young peoples physique is decreasing year by year. Is that really true? In the west at least youth get great nutrition growing up which sets them in good stead to build muscle.
I think mental resolve to apply to physical tasks may be what is draining.
You say young peoples physique is decreasing year by year. Is that really true? In the west at least youth get great nutrition growing up which sets them in good stead to build muscle.
I think mental resolve to apply to physical tasks may be what is draining.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I agree with this totally. When I was a boy I would ride my bike for miles, we had to play all manner of sports in school, including football, rugby, cricket, cross country running and British Bulldog which could get very painful. Most of us were very fit young boys. The only thing I was allowed to watch was the TV after doing my homework.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Sadly this is not always the case nowadays. As Der Alte mentioned, all too many young lads prefer to sit in front of a computer screen and play computer games.
42RM
Banned
There will always be exceptions.
Same image with potential RM recruits. There are many more today being discarded on their physical abilities than there was 25 years ago.
LeEnfield
Active member
When I was young [don't laugh] there was no TV, Computer Games, so you spent all time playing sports. Football and cricket would be played with a tennis ball as you could never get the real thing. A pile of coats would make make the goal, stumps would be painted on the wall or a few old sticks or a tree would make the wicket.
A local river or pond would be used for swimming, but you were out in the open roaming far and wide when you weren't playing games and there were all those other games like skipping, tag, hopscotch and dozens of other games you would play, which you never see today youth playing. All this would give you great stamina and physical fitness which the youth today think they have. Locally there is a school and the children never walk to or from school they are drive there by car and with all their money there is a huge queue at the shops where the children go to get even more food and sweets to make them even fatter.
A local river or pond would be used for swimming, but you were out in the open roaming far and wide when you weren't playing games and there were all those other games like skipping, tag, hopscotch and dozens of other games you would play, which you never see today youth playing. All this would give you great stamina and physical fitness which the youth today think they have. Locally there is a school and the children never walk to or from school they are drive there by car and with all their money there is a huge queue at the shops where the children go to get even more food and sweets to make them even fatter.
Haha 42 thats not the first time you have started a post to me with that.
Of getting into what? The military? The bar really isnt that high to get accepted- obviously I am not talking about the RM, but you cannot walk in off the street to join them anyway.
What I am trying to get at is the diversity of the roles needed in an effective army. As an example the US army has around three people in logistics for every soldier in combat.
There are also many other job roles, so say for instance a third of the population is overweight- while it is not traditionally an armys style I am sure they could cater to different physiques.
The rooms where soldiers look at computer screens all day would really suit some people, and there are plenty of jobs for truck drivers.
I think compulsory service would be good for some people.
Of getting into what? The military? The bar really isnt that high to get accepted- obviously I am not talking about the RM, but you cannot walk in off the street to join them anyway.
What I am trying to get at is the diversity of the roles needed in an effective army. As an example the US army has around three people in logistics for every soldier in combat.
There are also many other job roles, so say for instance a third of the population is overweight- while it is not traditionally an armys style I am sure they could cater to different physiques.
The rooms where soldiers look at computer screens all day would really suit some people, and there are plenty of jobs for truck drivers.
I think compulsory service would be good for some people.