Krav Maga and Ninjutsu

Oh no problem. There wasn't actually a graduation system in Ninjutsu up until Hatsumi Sensei made one up. But it really is not like a "rank thing" we have in other martial arts, it's just an indication for yourself which level you personally have reached, nothing else.

Regards,
Il
 
Grading System

There is a grading system. but it unlike other martial arts. Basically, its not down to how you do on the night, its down to your ability during your level of training. We don't get locked into grades, so it doesn't mean if you're a higher grade you are always better. You should be, but it doesn't always work that way.

There was a programme on the TV some time ago called "The Ultimate Warrior." There were all kinds of martial arts displayed their with impressive ability. Although the ninja came out on top as the ultimate warrior, it was agreed that, it was down to the individual on the night. Very true I would say. Brin and Natasha are familiar with both my sensei's, especially Dennis Bartram as Hatsumi made him a Master in his own right in 1997 and he truly is an exceptional man.

However, it is good to train at other dojos from time to time and to share the wealth of knowledge, techniques and friendship. Ninjutsu was a way out of an aggressive lifestyle for me and during these years I've met some excellent people. I am glad to say this part of the journey never ends.

Best Regards

Steve
 
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Kuroi ryu Ninjitsu art?

Hi What do you guy's think of Kuroi ryu Ninjitsu? One teacher from Netherlands also knows Ninjitsu and is a instuctor of Krav Maga. So you can do both with one teacher.

Arie van den Akker sensei and master teacher of Kuroi Ryu Ninjitsu as Krav Maga, what you think of this clip? :firedevi:

:hide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdNstq3gIGg :hide:

This is more Ninjitsu i guess ! I practise better with a gun instead of Ninjitsu!!! :biggun: :m16shoot: :9mm::read:
 
Hahaha, why did the guy all of a subben pull a skimask over his head at the end? Did it make his system more effective?
Grown men rolling around in the grass together.. :-)

I saw one useful move in that entire clip.
And it is a basic Military KM move as well.

I´d rather join one of Redlegs classes then this guys.
 
I restarted KM training starting last week.
Unfortunately too many of the characters involved in class are just idiots with low self esteem. It kinda ruins the experience but I guess I'll have to just ignore it and drive on.
I'm trying to join the class for military/LEO but haven't heard back from them yet...
 
As a practitioner of Jiu jitsu and MMA, I think any martial art is good to know. From what I've seen Krav Maga is straight to the point no bs martial art. It looks good for self defence, but for actual fighting I don't know enough of it.

Ninjitsu also seems like a great martial art and if I had to choose I wouldn't know which one to choose. I would try both out and see which one you like best.
 
I have to agree with Redleg. If you want a traditional Japanese system then Ninjutsu is OK -but -you'll get lots of tradition thrown in with technique. Krav Maga is a military/combat oriented method, both brutal & simple & very effective from what I've seen of it.

I myself by nature am a grappler having wrestled & also did Judo. I still coach Judo & my Army Ranger son is a National Judo champ & also instructs. I am a Nidan in Judo, Sandan in Goju Ryu Karate & Kenpo Karate & taught both between my Navy & Army years. By far Judo is more fun with lots of positive feedback of the technique - you either throw someone or you don't. You either submit someone or you don't. In any striking/kicking art you're never sure whether that technique will really break someone's rib or bust his head, even knock him out. That type of feedback can be awfully hard on your training partner!

Any martial art is good for the mind & the body. Used as a self defense fighting art most are questionable. It takes many years to develop yourself to the point where it can do more good than harm. These days black belts are given away like Cracker Jack prizes. I take no stock in a black belt of recent vintage in an art that gives them away for attending a weekend seminar that costs $100. I worked way to hard over way too much time earning mine.

Of all I've see, even though I've done very little research on it, Krav Maga seems like the real deal.
 
This is the same Guy but then Krav Maga

Yeah you are right:santam16:

What do you thing of this ninja master his Krav Maga? This is his Krav Maga so Arie van den Akker is teaching a mix i guess of Krav Maga and Ninjitsu:

Check this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaDv7D_pCw4

Many krav maga videos is crap also, some are very very good, but this one for instance i think that is really whack. :bang:

Maybe it does not matter what you train, you have to make it work many styles and teachers like this are whack, so it is up to you to do it i guess.
 
Ninjutsu vs. Krav

Konnichi wa or should that be Shalom!

As a 26 year practitioner of Ninjutsu (and I do hate the political state of it now) I would just like to add my two cents worth . . . :type:

Well, where to begin, yes, most modern martial artists out there aren't worth their belts but most modern martial arts are watered down modern (Karate formalized in it's best known form and first formally shown in Japan in 1922, Tae Kwondo founded in 1955, judo and Aikido under 120 years old) versions of old 'combat' arts that have been 'modified' for sport or to be sold to the public (read 'non-combat' personality types). So most 'martial arts' should not be taken as real 'Combat' systems.

Ninjutsu (not ninjitsu = modern term refering to the 'art' not the 'method' of) was born in a time where no firearms were available and true close quarters combat was the main battle method once distance weapons like bow, spear, projectile were out ranged. So in it's purist form true ninjutsu - 'Togakure, Kumogakure, Gyokushin' (as we study) and the other family clan styles were tested over and over again in life threatening battle, uneffective technique was quickly eliminated.
Our second to last Soke (clan head) killed 12 in documented death challenges and defeated or drew (no losses) with 7 martial artists in true no rules empty handed challenges in his travels in China in the early 1900's, (threr was many other challenges, undocumented and many of his students had similar successes) so I've no doubt there is an element of effectiveness in our art.

Most instructors these days teach a softer version for 'public' safety and insurance reasons. I teach kids (mainly) a safe version with the nasty elements taken out. Ninjutsu as seen by the public should not be compared to other arts as it is fundamentaly different. It's Taijutsu (body or CQC methods) is brutal, deadly, simple and very, very effective!

Fighting with full pack (modern military) is not different from fighting in battle armour (samurai or Ninja), gun disarms are gun disarms (yes, guns in japan since mid 1500's), Knife fights are knife fights and punching, kicking and joint breaking haven't changed much since cave man times!

I have investigated many combat arts over the years Krav being one, Jerry Petersons SCARS-HCS being another, Tony Blauers systems, Hock Hockingheims . . . etc and many copy cats and over my 26 years it appears to me that the methods all seam to have the same basics with just a personal spin by the creator.

Correct me if I'm wrong but modern military personel train mainly in modern armourment use (firearms, explosives etc.), so hand to hand is not their speciality?
Most 'masters' of most fighting systems have had, how many real life threatening fights (personally)? and if they have had many, do you really think what was learned from those fights could be developed into a tested combat fighting system so quickly? Especially one that could be called the 'the best' or 'most dangerous' system out there?

Just food for thought.

Sorry for the essay . . .:peace:

Garyu (Sosai)

Check out me at www.ninjaclan.org or www.supaskilled.info

:D
 
Exactly what is wrong with throwing eachother over the hip screaming HIIAWW! You get nothing but stories.

Exactly how have you "investigated" KM as you seem to know enough to make a comparison?
Been fighting cagefights using it for 10 plus years?
Have you seen civilian or military KM?
In Israel or somewhere else?
On TV?

The questions are many..

And Krav IS a proven system.
It has been taught and used in the ongoing war in the middle east since it´s invention.
Not in "deathmatches" or supercool "ninja competitions" but in real world situations..

If you think ninjitsu, sake or sushi are great fightingstyle, fine by me.
But try to steer clear from the standard.. "My fightingstyle is the best or I have been spending my life learning unusable .... ."
 
Question

Since so many of you guys are knowledgeable about fighting styles, I've been wondering about something. Would you say that Krav Maga is a good thing for a woman to know? I'm not talking about female soldiers, but those of us who walk around unarmed 24/7. For us, attacks are always up close and personal when some knuckle-dragger decides he has the right to put his hands on us. Is KM a viable means of self-defense for the average woman?
 
Oh, so sorry!!

Thought we had open minded individuals here?

KJ . . . RELAX

Firstly I have not run down Krav, If you check out the other CQC systems out there you would have to agree the basics are the same . . .

Thought you might like some facts about ninjutsu (I know everyone thinks it's not a real martial art . . . just wacky movie stuff), as I said 26 years in the martial arts industry.

Cage fights have rules, so true Krav would, like ninjutsu get you disqualified.

Civilian Krav (softened for the street) = equal to core techniques of most martial arts
Mil Krav (up to and including deadly force)= excessive force mostly unsuitable (legally)for civilian self defence

You might want to check out it's history . . .

Krav Maga (from Wiki (verified)) = It was derived from street-fighting skills developed in Czechoslovakia in the 1930shttp://www.military-quotes.com/forum/#cite_note-KravMagaFounder-18 by Imi Lichtenfeld, who made use of his training as a boxer and wrestler, as a means of defending the Jewish quarter during a period of anti-Semitic activity in Bratislava[4] in the mid- to late 1930s. In the late 1940s, following his immigration to Israel, he began to provide hand-to-hand combat training to what was to become the IDF, developing the techniques that became known as Krav Maga. It has since been refined for both civilian and military applications. [5] Some refinements include, but are not limited to, the incorporation of elements from traditional Asian martial arts.
Krav Maga is also known as Israeli jujitsu, its philosophy emphasizes threat neutralization, simultaneous defensive and offensive maneuvers, and aggression.[6] Krav Maga is used by the IDF Special Forces units and several closely related variations have been developed and adopted by law enforcement and intelligence organizations, Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[7] and United States special operations forces. There are several organizations teaching variations of Krav Maga internationally. [8][9][10]

Garyu notes - These organisations are known to use/mix many fighting systems, continually investigating and adding/updating new skills.

Basic principles
There are no rules for Krav Maga fighting. Men and women generally undergo the same drills.[14][15] It has no sporting federation, and there are no official uniforms or attire, although some organizations do recognize progress through training with rank badges, different levels, and belts.[16][17]

Generally, there are no rules in Krav Maga as a defense fighting technique which is not regulated but utilized to keep the user safe and incapacitate the opponent by any means necessary. General principles include: [2]
  • Counter attacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
  • Targeting attacks to the body's most vulnerable points such as the eyes, jaw, throat, groin, knee etc.
  • Neutralising the opponent as quickly as possible by responding with an unbroken stream of counter attacks and if necessary a take down/joint break.
  • Maintaining awareness of surroundings while dealing with the threat in order to look for escape routes, further attackers, objects that could be used to defend or help attack and so on.
Garyu notes - Basic Principles exactly as in Ninjutsu!

Again sorry for essay

"The winner of a fight is the one who does not get hurt"

;)
 
I disagree with the point that civilian Krav Maga is like basic moves in other martial arts.
Civilian Krav Maga covers many things that basic level moves in other martial arts do not even pretend to cover. Not only that, the tactics involved are also very different.
Israeli Jujitsu is a pretty poor way to describe it because there is a LOT of emphasis on striking moves and although grappling techniques are taught, it is not the focus and there is much emphasis on getting out of the grappling fight rather than getting into it.
I have done martial arts for about 16 years now, across many disciplines. The ones that impressed me most were Krav Maga and Muay Thai.
 
Ah, that's the problem . . . not reading (or understanding) posts properly

I did not say 'basic' I said 'Core', there is a difference!
Core means the 'fundimental principles' which are the applied the same in basic through to advanced technique.

Jujitsu - it's a common misconception that jujitsu is just grappling, as I said previously, 'modern arts' are usually watered down or have had technique droped. The majority of jujitsu clubs nowdays focus on grappling as this is how you win trophies.

Jujitsu in it's original form or pre sport jujitsu (which I'm sure is what this makes referance to) had 18 'core' methods, from Daken (striking), firearms, and horsemanship to stratagy, grappling was included in the Taijutsu (body methods) with no more importance than striking.

Again I state, I have not run down Krav

I know we all have our opinions and preferances, but we should temper them with fact.


;-)
 
The closest "traditional" martial art ot Krav Maga would be Muay Thai but even then the difference is pretty big.
At least in this day and age, it is very different to other martial arts.
What that other martial art looked like 100 years ago has nothing to do with me today.
 
You might find it interesting to know that martial arts of a battle field nature eg 'Koryu (old) jujutsu' or 'ninjutsu' are very relevent today.

These pre sport fighting systems did not have high spinning kicks (not effective in real combat), magical pressure point strikes or flashy movie moves and apart from some style specific principles these were not dissimilar to modern combat arts.

As I stated before, most combat technique REALLY hasn't changed since those days. Remember old Japanese systems like ninjutsu and koryu jujutsu were developed over hundereds of years (over 400) of warring period. without modern firearms, tanks, night vision, radar, electronic enemy detection devices and aircraft to find or soften up the enemy.

It was close quarters, simple, brutal and highly effective.
Don't be fooled by modern sport arts or the hollywood image of the oriental arts.

check out http://www.koryu.com/library/mskoss8.html

:horsie:
 
And there are masters who actually teach the way it was taught those hundreds of years ago with a similar level of competence?
 
There aren't many who will take the risk (insurance etc.) but a few of us will. Yes I do.

I started out in Bujinkan (as it's the only truely authentic/verifiable system left) 26 years ago, no belts, just heaps of training.
Now I still practice/learn the techniques of Bujinkan (current Japanese Hombu dojo member) and base all curriculum on their teachings but due to the political state of it here in Australia I distance myself from other Australian instructors.

I teach a softer version to kids and most adults. Most won't commit to the harsher 'reality' based training due to potential injuries eg. breaks, dislocations, cuts and the odd concussion!

I teach what we call 'Jigoku kosa' (hell course), to select intermediate/advanced students (1-2 years training), students have to get their own insurance and sign waivers accepting responsibility for injury and/or loss.
It's old school, hard drills, no padding, technique is mainly the same as is taught to others but there is some that we don't give to the general public eg. full disable moves or deadly force.

I've had the end of a finger cut off, knife cuts to hand, dislocated knee/shoulder and collar bone smashed (plate and 10 screws).

So as I said please don't judge ninjutsu (at least ours) by other martial arts standards.
 
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