Just been shot!

MontyB said:
I would suggest they are more nomadic than traveler as they have no real abode to return to and in this case it seems they have gone feral.
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Well there are slight differences in the terms 'gypsy' and travellers in that not all travellers are gypsies, we have from time to time our own political and hippy travellers on the loose.

But the gypsy and traveller culture is generally one of choice.

Also - many of the travellers - the Irish for example - are very rich and have wonderful caravans, large new 4x4 BMWs etc., plenty money, and also permanent residences of similiar little towns of their own in Ireland with fine houses. They can afford to buy large lumps of land here. They have a large community of expert antique dealers, wealthy and powerful who tend to be known as 'The Tinkers'.

Gypsy is not a derogatory term, and neither is Travellers, widely used. The eastern european Roma are more of a problem I understand as far as crime is concerned and we now have them arriving here from Bulgaria and Rumania; male and female, from expert pick-pocketing upwards. We are concerned regarding child snatching and trading, on the international crime fronts.

How about this. 2 fast new 4x4 gas-guzzlers will pullup on a town main road beside a cash machine. The vehicles have winches fitted. They use the winches to rip the cash machines out of the wall like cowboys ripping out the jailhouse bars, and off they jolly well speed. They know how many police cars are available, and have also been known to puncture police vehicles within a few miles first.

Often the police know who they want but dare not touch them. If a private person upsets them, like the guy who shot one inside his raided home and went to prison, was tried in his absence by their own trial court, and sentenced according to their own rules. In his case, they decided that there were certain matters in his favour, and they considered themselves satisfied.
 
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the police would love to drop on these people like a tonne of bricks. preferably several tonnes. However, the "politically correct" crowd call racism etc every time it happens, so the police face cuts etc.
 
MontyB said:
So you are telling me that because of Hitler people of the Jewish faith, Intellectuals, Homosexuals, Communists and Gypsies can run around Britain doing as they like without fear of arrest and prosecution?

Seriously sounds to me like your police force needs to grow a sack and start doing their job rather than hiding behind dodgy excuses.
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Seems to me that the citizens need to grow a pair and take back what is rightfully there's. The Police and the Government aren't going to do anything.

Here in America we as a citizenry have said enough is enough with illegal immigrants. Hence we patrol our own borders. The people of the UK should do the same with this Travelers. Fight back..... Society is nothing but a concert jungle. You have predators and prey. What are you?
 
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5.56X45mm said:
Seems to me that the citizens need to grow a pair and take back what is rightfully there's. The Police and the Government are going to do anything.

Here in America we as a citizenry have said enough is enough with illegal immigrants. Hence we patrol our own borders. The people of the UK should do the same with this Travelers. Fight back..... Society is nothing but a concert jungle. You have predators and prey. What are you?
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What a giant load...
As citizens we pay taxes, those taxes pay for a military to defend our shores and keep us "safe" from external threats and we pay for a police force to keep us "safe" from internal threats and we have a responsibility to ensure they are well equipped and motivated to do the job, if as you are saying we need to do both of these tasks then why the hell am I paying to keep a worthless bunch of goldbrickers in coffee, donuts and camo gear?

Heres a thought, how about we get the people that are paid to do the job to actually do it and if they wont do it then its time to put pressure on the people who can make them do it.

You know the funny thing about predators and their prey is that very few of them die of old age and even fewer die pleasantly.
 
I wouldn't necessarily blame the officer's as I previously stated. I would assume more accurately I believe, someone is tying the officer's hands to where they are not allowed to police certain areas aggressively for whatever the reason is.
 
AikiRooster said:
I wouldn't necessarily blame the officer's as I previously stated. I would assume more accurately I believe, someone is tying the officer's hands to where they are not allowed to police certain areas aggressively for whatever the reason is.
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I agree but this is where the role of the people kicks in, it is our role to ensure that they are doing their job not to actually do the job ourselves.

Imagine you contract me to come around and put a new roof on your house and I show up a couple of weeks later and then decide well I cant do the job because the neighbours wont like the noise or the new colour but by all means do it yourself and here's my bill are you going to pay?

This is why Spikes comments about getting the media involved and stirring up local groups is the right answer.
 
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At the very least, I would suggest it's part of the right answer.

If the cops are told they can't do whatever, the whatever is not gonna get done, otherwise they get fired or charged criminally. I would assume that it is a political problem. Good cops love to work. I do not believe the whole the dept is made up of a bunch of screw balls wearing thongs, shirts and holsters.
 
The best thing people can do is demand the government get rid of these lot. If the people won't do that, then either there is a lack of support in this idea of getting rid of Gypsies or the populace hasn't got the motivation or discipline to do it, in which case, you just live with the problem.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
The best thing people can do is demand the government get rid of these lot. If the people won't do that, then either there is a lack of support in this idea of getting rid of Gypsies or the populace hasn't got the motivation or discipline to do it, in which case, you just live with the problem.
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Exactly and this is why it is important to get the ball rolling via the media, nothing motivates a politician faster than self interest and giving them a band wagon to jump on and the threat of bad press if they don't does get results.
 
MontyB said:
What a giant load...
As citizens we pay taxes, those taxes pay for a military to defend our shores and keep us "safe" from external threats and we pay for a police force to keep us "safe" from internal threats and we have a responsibility to ensure they are well equipped and motivated to do the job, if as you are saying we need to do both of these tasks then why the hell am I paying to keep a worthless bunch of goldbrickers in coffee, donuts and camo gear?

Heres a thought, how about we get the people that are paid to do the job to actually do it and if they wont do it then its time to put pressure on the people who can make them do it.

You know the funny thing about predators and their prey is that very few of them die of old age and even fewer die pleasantly.
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Sorry but in the USA The US Supreme Court as ruled through Case Law that Law Enforcement does not have any obligation to protect the citizenry that it serves.

Both DeShaney v. Winnebago County and Castle Rock v. Gonzales have shown that the Government in no way believes that it has any obligation to protect citizenry.
 
Then you should working on that problem rather than telling people to run out and start shooting each other.

My personal belief is that these issues are not "police" issues as I am certain the police do see their role as security and protection the problem is at whatever tier of the hierarchy it is that is being influenced into not letting the police carry out this role and I am prepared to bet that those people are elected.
 
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MontyB said:
Then you should working on that problem rather than telling people to run out and start shooting each other.
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I'm telling people that they should not rely on others for their own self defense. I'm telling people that the S can HTF at any moment. As a Police Officer I try and serve my community as best as I can. I cannot be everywhere. Sadly I am told not to go after some people because of politics. It is a fact of society. It happens in the USA, it happens in the UK, and it happens everywhere else in the world.

"It is better to have then not need then need and not have."

I in no way wish for random violence. I would rather live in a world where firearms and weapons and people like me are not needed. I'd rather live in a world where the worst crime is the rain ruining a picnic.

But guess what..... that world will never come. I know that peace is not something that is constant. Violence sadly is a daily part of our society. You have criminals, you have prey, and you have those that fight back.

Stop being the damn victim. Stand up for yourself and fight back. I am sick and tired of people bitching the standard victim routine. The rules of Darwin are still alive and well if modern day society. You have the strong and you have the weak. Lucky with the modern advancement of tools (Hammer, Automobile, Firearm, Printing Press etc...) everyone is at a equal playing field in terms of physical matters. There is still those in our society that are are mentally weak. They are the victim. They play the victim and preach the role of the victim.

I am not. I don't stand down, I don't let people step on me, I don't let people prey on me. I have seen the best and the worst of society. Trust me.... the best of society on not that great and the worst of society is something you cannot even grasp until you see it for yourself.

Society is not peachy and peaceful. It just seems like that because you have not been on the other end of society. Walk the ghettos and see how life on the street really is.

Self Defense is something that I don't rely on others for. I can simply be driving down the road and be car jacked. I can walk down the Beach is Miami Beach and be mugged. I keep an eye out for the predator and I watch my back. I stay armed... why? Because calling for the police can take up to five minutes but being knifed can happen in thirty seconds.

Sven Hassel was lucky. Those scumbags could have aimed for the wheels and disabled the Van. What do you think they would do next? Simply say sorry and fix the flat? No! They could have advanced and killed him.

In the military we call that an ambush... learn about it.
 
5.56X45mm said:
I'm telling people that they should not rely on others for their own self defense. I'm telling people that the S can HTF at any moment. As a Police Officer I try and serve my community as best as I can. I cannot be everywhere. Sadly I am told not to go after some people because of politics. It is a fact of society. It happens in the USA, it happens in the UK, and it happens everywhere else in the world.

"It is better to have then not need then need and not have."

I in no way wish for random violence. I would rather live in a world where firearms and weapons and people like me are not needed. I'd rather live in a world where the worst crime is the rain ruining a picnic.

But guess what..... that world will never come. I know that peace is not something that is constant. Violence sadly is a daily part of our society. You have criminals, you have prey, and you have those that fight back.

Stop being the damn victim. Stand up for yourself and fight back. I am sick and tired of people bitching the standard victim routine. The rules of Darwin are still alive and well if modern day society. You have the strong and you have the weak. Lucky with the modern advancement of tools (Hammer, Automobile, Firearm, Printing Press etc...) everyone is at a equal playing field in terms of physical matters. There is still those in our society that are are mentally weak. They are the victim. They play the victim and preach the role of the victim.

I am not. I don't stand down, I don't let people step on me, I don't let people prey on me. I have seen the best and the worst of society. Trust me.... the best of society on not that great and the worst of society is something you cannot even grasp until you see it for yourself.

Society is not peachy and peaceful. It just seems like that because you have not been on the other end of society. Walk the ghettos and see how life on the street really is.

Self Defense is something that I don't rely on others for. I can simply be driving down the road and be car jacked. I can walk down the Beach is Miami Beach and be mugged. I keep an eye out for the predator and I watch my back. I stay armed... why? Because calling for the police can take up to five minutes but being knifed can happen in thirty seconds.

Sven Hassel was lucky. Those scumbags could have aimed for the wheels and disabled the Van. What do you think they would do next? Simply say sorry and fix the flat? No! They could have advanced and killed him.

In the military we call that an ambush... learn about it.
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With this attitude you are only going to see your world get worse because when people start taking the law into their own hands organisation falls apart and anarchy prevails.

We as individuals pay for a police force (via taxation) to enforce the laws of the land (whether they like it or not that is their role) and they damn well should start doing it rather than going for the cop out approach of telling people to do the job themselves.

So in this case it is my assumption that it is still illegal in Britain for someone fire a shot gun at someone else and it doesnt matter whether the shooter is a black, jewish, gypsy, lesbian with a law degree who actually survived the holocaust or not it is the job of the police to drop the donuts and go sort this issue out.
Oh and while I am at it as I recall it is also illegal for someone who has been shot at to go get a weapon, come back and sort it out themselves.
 
For the most part that last part is correct Monty but it also depends on the situation. If your assisting an officer trying to keep him/her from being killed, you go get your gun and blast the perp, illegal? murder? maybe on initial appearance but I would say easily justified in that scenario.

Most police do try to protect but unfortunately, often times, their hands are tied politically. For example, the person who calls the police and says Bill Clinton threatened me, the police can't come arrest him until their is something more substantial than just a threat. The law claims threats are illegal but I have never been authorized to make an arrest for some bonehead communicating threats.
 
AikiRooster said:
For the most part that last part is correct Monty but it also depends on the situation. If your assisting an officer trying to keep him/her from being killed, you go get your gun and blast the perp, illegal? murder? maybe on initial appearance but I would say easily justified in that scenario.

Most police do try to protect but unfortunately, often times, their hands are tied politically. For example, the person who calls the police and says Bill Clinton threatened me, the police can't come arrest him until their is something more substantial than just a threat. The law claims threats are illegal but I have never been authorized to make an arrest for some bonehead communicating threats.
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That is fine but there is a difference between me calling the police and saying Joe Schmoe threatened me and Joe Schmoe just pumped two shot gun rounds into my vehicle.
I can understand inaction on a threat that is simply one word against another but where you have proof ie two bloody great holes in the side of a vehicle, then I expect action.

I would also suggest (in this case) that the reason these people are so brazen in their actions is that they know the police will not do anything give them a few examples of an armed response team kicking in doors, making a few arrests and confiscating weapons through out the entire camp and they would be a little more circumspect in the future.
 
That's true enough. I don't know the answers to this problem. My assumption is strictly off of how things tend to work here in the states and that would be excessively political and the officer's hand being tied due to same. I highly doubt the entire dept is full of lazy bums suckin down donuts all day.
 
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