You missunderstood me,iwasnt talking on world scale,not on isreal-arabs conflicts...etc. :lol:
Communism isn't the direct opposite of democracy. Capitalism is.ItalianGuy4US said:Democracies are the good guys, countries allowing you freedom of speech, of movement, of thought, human rights are the good guys. Thats my childish criteria.
Oh man you've lived under communism you should now that pretty well.
I did not mean to compare Nazi-Germany directly with Israel, and I don't think I did. It's even in two different paragraphs. Hitler was elected, so started out as a democratically elected official.ItalianGuy4US said:Yeah sorry I resorted to flaming and apologize. Sorry Marksman I know you're one of the good guys :lol: .
Anyways what I meant was that democracy HAS TO BE the best, the good guy. C'm on. I know Europeans ( 1217 ) are way too used to go around philosophying without sense of practice, but this is it.
And- 1217, the case about Israel compared as Nazi Germany, there's a little detail being part of democracy which I would like you to remember: it's called constitution. I don't think the Jews would agree on the basis of a hypothetical Constitution where mass murdering the Jews would be legal, if agreed upon by the majority of citizens. Before playing in a democracy, you gotta create a widely-shared constitution.
Secondly, dude, sorry to disappoint you but Nazi Germany wasn't really a democracy. Hitler may have come to power with regular elections, but there was no freedom of movement or of speech for its citizens. Nor were human rights mentioned in the constitution.
Which is, DEMOCRACY does not mean ONLY that the majority rules. It involves much more.
All I'm trying to say is that who are the good guys and who are the bad guys depends on your point of view. To get slightly back on topic, I for one sometimes find it hard to keep to my convictions that the Israelis are the good guys, if I see how innocent looking palestinains are homeless and blaming the Israeli gouvernment. Both groups do good and bad things, no country is all saints, not even Israel or the US. (Or the Netherlands for that matter.) I guess I'm on thin ice here, and I find it hard to get my exact opinion on the screen, but please try to understand what I'm trying to say before cutting me down...[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=DEMOCRACY said:dictionary.reference.com[/url]]de·moc·ra·cy
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1) Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2) A political or social unit that has such a government.
3) The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4) Majority rule.
5) The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
Mark Conley said:From what I understand, Israeli nuclear devices are not ssembled...the plutonium cores are kept seperate from the physics package, guidance system, and the like. It is not until they are needed do they put the whole thing together, and have a thermo-nuclear device, or weapon. They can be put together rather quickly and utilized.
Eric said:I am finally back!!! Missed you guys...
A couple of points first:
- Don't blame Israel for coming up with the separating of the nuke components in order to tell anyone on their face and without lying that they do not have nuclear weapons....after all, they learned from the masters that created Binary ammunitions. These are shells or missiles with all the different chemicals components separated in order to tell the world they are not chemical weapons. The components only mix and turn into lethal chemical agents after having been fired...by the way...that happens to be US...like U.S!
Not bad...Yes, we came up with a binary nerve gas weapon system in order to make the storage and transport of the devices safer and more expediant to the troops that were to use them...not as a means to confim or deny their existance though.
It is a good legal way to go around international treaties and oversight WITHOUT LYING!
well in Israel's case...they dont violate any treaty I know of...because they havent signed any dealing with nuclear weapons. Oversight is another issue of the treatys
like stating a ******** cannot be considered as having sex, thus, stating "I did not have sex with....blah blah" is not lying!!!!
In this mans case..i would suspect that it wasnt sex...just another appetizer to the main course. of course, it was his definition...
- Israel did not develop its nuke to protect itself against Iranian or Iraqi nuclear ventures...it just started it first! Is it bad? I guess in sieged Israel, the only democratic system in that part of the world (I did not really say Democracy), people and government know / knew it would be a matter of time before the enemies will try or come up with nukes and beating them at the nuclear race was a matter of priority and survival. Who care who was there first, the chicken or the egg? Both are necessary!
Israel survived as a nation without a hint that they had nuclear weapons for almost 20 years...I guess that the wars interim to their development, with the massed attacks by a multi-nationed force suggested to them that a force equalizer was in order...
- As far as over-nuking oneself, remember the MAD theory! I guess Israel does not want to put all its (nuke) eggs in the same basket while preserving its capacity to simultaneously destroy a couple of countries if needed. RemeMber that the country is small and that it has most often than never been attacked by coalitions of countries.
wouldnt disagree there...
- I'd venture to say that nuke or military power is safer under a "democratic" control than under a dictatorship. The word "safer" is relative but we have to make do with it. Nuke proliferation is a current fact of life and technology is now more simple, affordable and mastered. Eventually, whether we like it or not, we know that nukes will end up in non-governmental entities that have nothing to loose.... yes, Sweet Dreams!
- Should Israel disarm or reduce its nuke? Should they aknowledge them?
I don't know....their call...they know how many in their inventory are aleready obsolete against current anti missile defense... keeping everybody in the dark is the best deterrence, isn't it? Furthermore, the deterrence works both ways: towards its traditional enemies and toward the so-called superpowers. When America, the European Union or Russia deal with the region, they have to keep in mind that they cannot afford to corner Israel and force them to use its last resort "equalizers".