Gunships Unleashed

tomtom22

tomtom22

Chief Engineer
Gunships Unleashed
Joint Forces Quarterly | Robert J. Seifert | July 02, 2007
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Slayer 74, an AC-130U side-firing gunship, was en route to Fallujah, Iraq, on October 5, 2003, to work with a joint terminal air controller (JTAC) from the 82nd Airborne Division on a routine counter-mortar mission. Approximately 5 minutes from Fallujah, the pilot, equipped with night-vision goggles, noticed surface-to-surface fire through the small window by his left foot. He immediately rolled into a 20-degree left bank and talked his infrared and all low light level television sensor operators onto the tracers. In less than 30 seconds, they had identified stationary U.S. military vehicles and several suspicious individuals fleeing the area.

more here: http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,141012,00.html?ESRC=army.nl

Very interesting article. Suggests that changes in doctrine and employment are needed.
 
Changes in doctrine might help make it a "shoot to kill" aircraft, rather than a insurgent chaser. Combat aircraft doing Air Control? Odd, that sounds like something a command chopper would spool up for. Not a huge Combat aircraft, Kinda expect a modified Electronic warfare C 130 to have all the NV gizmos on board.
 
I'm not familiar with the US military tactics, but I thought that the helicopter gunships were used for this sort of thing?
 
The Specter is one hell of a fighting platform. They can stay in the air much longer than a helicopter, hence why they now do area combat patrol. Also they back a much bigger punch.

Loved them when I was in the service. Seeing a Specter in the air meant that you're safe.
 
5.56X45mm said:
The Specter is one hell of a fighting platform. They can stay in the air much longer than a helicopter, hence why they now do area combat patrol. Also they back a much bigger punch.

Loved them when I was in the service. Seeing a Specter in the air meant that you're safe.
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Did Clinton's administration deny the troops this aircraft during Black Hawk Down incident? Do you know any thing about that?
 
The Spectre is effective in any environment because it has the ability to modify said environment in seconds.
 
bulldogg said:
The Spectre is effective in any environment because it has the ability to modify said environment in seconds.
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environments full of innocent women and children


gotcha



using a spectre in a tight urban setting such as mogidishu would've been like killing a fly with a sledge hammer....sure, you may get the fly....but sure as hell you ****ed up the room doing it.
 
If an ******* hides behind women and children and is going to keep killing if you don't kill him whose fault is it that women and children get killed in the process? The cop or the cockholster that chose to hide amongst innocent parties? You can't wait because he is actively killing, each minute you wait another person is killed. Do tell.
 
Inferno I get what you mean but it is true that these guys deliberately hide behind women and children, and in at least a few (possibly many) cases, the women and children are voluntarily standing in front of the enemy.
In those cases Inferno, we CANNOT treat them as regular civilians. If they play such a role in the conflict, rules change. It's like the enemy can engage our forces, whether or not the person in uniform is a man, woman or a guy who's 17 years old.
 
yes but it's horses for courses


the spectres would not have help ONE IOTA in my opinion in mogidishu.


sure civilian casualties are an inevitable part of urban conflict...but that doesn't mean you may as well go hammer and tongs and level a couple of city blocks because you can.


or can i write this up to "it's africa, so who cares?"
 
Infern0, I spent a lot of time, in fact, most of my life living in Southeast Asia and the like so I have this thing that a lot of people seem to be missing that REAL people live in those places. This is what I mean by I know what you're getting at.
And you're right, "It's Africa, who cares?" attitude is a problem too but the US isn't the only party guilty in this one.
The Spectre is a good weapon in taking out highly concentrated enemy combatants, even in a city. Unfortunately if you are in a place of conflict, it is your responsibility to get out as soon as possible.
If you walk in between a shootout between cops and gangs, chances are you will be shot.
If you stay in an area where two sides are battling it out, chances are you will be shot, blown up, burned etc etc.
War is bad because people die, get wounded badly, get maimed for life and a whole list of bad things that can probably fill a thousand pages or more but the truth of the fact is that it DOES happen for one reason or another.
Precision munitions have reduced the numbers of civilian deaths and that is not a point you can argue. For instance during World War II and Korea they had to flatten half the city to knock out one bridge.
Actually one of my grandmothers was bombed by Americans not only in one war, but in two; World War II and the Korean War. She actually forgives them for that though because she says it was necessary to beat the Japanese and the North Koreans. Her own words.
So please, it's not I'm completely clueless.
Real people live there. Real people die. But if you have a crowd of hostiles in the area, GET OUT.
And for the guys who deliberately put women and children in the combat zone to die for propaganda purposes... how come they get so little of the blame? How is it that they seem to get away clean in all this finger pointing?
Back in the Korean War, various Guerilla groups used refugees as shields as they launched raids against Allied forces. In retaliations many refugees died. But that was the accepted reality. No one in Korea made a big fuss about it until lately with all the extreme Anti-Americanism movements springing up.
 
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never said you were clueless and i'm well aware that the US isn't the only one by far with a dismissive attitude to africa (hell, even some african nations have that)

i dunno...maybe i just see a spectre blazing away at a crowd with 20, 30, 40mm cannons and 105 howitzers to be overkill.


be better in my mind to use the closest tool you have to a scalpel in those situations....rather than the hammer i mentioned earlier.



i guess it comes down to i dont see how having a specter on station would've provided any further benefits to the ground pounders, that weren't already provided by the available helicopter gunship support.


in saying that...had i been in their position, having that beast of a herky bird around would've been re-assuring
 
Have you heard, The U.S. is trying to work with organizations like the UN, as well as some African nations, something called, AFRICOM. Sorta like a supporting HQ to any U.S. operation in Africa, which I am sure there are.
 
It doesn't hurt to have an AC-130 nearby.
You won't be pounding away with that thing all the time but when it's appropriate, it's good to have it.
I know what you mean though. Firing insanely heavy stuff on a densely populated area isn't a pretty picture.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
It doesn't hurt to have an AC-130 nearby.
You won't be pounding away with that thing all the time but when it's appropriate, it's good to have it.
I know what you mean though. Firing insanely heavy stuff on a densely populated area isn't a pretty picture.
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Sharpness in combat may show skill, but, it's restraint that shows professionalism.
 
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