Gunships Unleashed

Infern0 said:
imho lack of restraint kills innocents right away...and more soldiers in the long run
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Unfortunately its in a lot of military doctrine nowa days. But it's there, and it is practiced. Even in the worst of situations.
 
bulldogg said:
Restraint gets soldiers killed.
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Like terrorists these liberals always defend here on this forum tend to adhere to the type of restraints these guys talk about.... So sad... these liberals are obsessed with hate for military and service people
 
phoenix80 said:
Like terrorists these liberals always defend here on this forum tend to adhere to the type of restraints these guys talk about.... So sad... these liberals are obsessed with hate for military and service people
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this sort of comment is the sort of comment that gets me gunning for you P80, it has NOTHING to do with the discussion around the AC-130 and it's use in a built up urban setting.

assume you a referring to me as a "liberal", and then go on to say i "hate" the military and service people....and THAT ****, my friend...STOPS RIGHT NOW.


just because i dont adhere to the kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out attitude that seems to be so prevalent amongst keyboard warriors such as your self, doesn't make me a communist, a liberal or in fact any other loaded term you want to throw around. and i especially resent the backhanded comment that i hate the military... considering that i serve, as do several of my closest friends...and my family's participation in conflict goes back to the boer war i find your comment extremely disrespectful.


people may have different points of view from your own. debating with them doesn't entail you calling them names. you wanna do **** like that? go back to the school yard


I do support the military, actively by serving in the NZDF. now im sure you'll just respond to my rant with another flip "okie dokie" or some other pathetic comment that shows that you know you're wrong. but let this be a notice....i WILL NOT put up with your slander. not one little bit


***sorry for the thread derail***
 
phoenix80 said:
Like terrorists these liberals always defend here on this forum tend to adhere to the type of restraints these guys talk about.... So sad... these liberals are obsessed with hate for military and service people
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Number 1: This is a discussion. Discussions contain various points of view. Even in regard to military tactics.

Number 2: No where did I see a post that would lead me to believe that Ifern0 advocating nor defending terrorists. And I went back a mile.

Number 3: Having said the above and having had the experiance of dealing with terrorist acts, I will say this.

When you accuse another member of supporting, advocating, or codoning terrorist acts . You better have something better than a case of butt hurt to back it up.

Carry on.
 
I don't think I accused any body of any thing. I just said the leftist (regardless of their location) always want to defend terrorists and criticize the military. To them, it is the military that is evil, not the terrorists or insurgents. Plus the the case to back up that is merely their own words.

Thnx!
 
bulldogg said:
Restraint gets soldiers killed.
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I'm a bit circumspect about that Bulldogg. There's a time and place for all things, I always remember the old saying. "He who hesitates is lost" often re-quoted as "he who hesitates is sometimes saved"

Getting back to the subject at hand. It's not like the coalition do not have a wide range of options and I always feel that as in much police work and our daily relations with other persons in general, only as much force should be used as is necessary to do the job safely, otherwise it may well come back to bite us on the bum.

In general people do not react well, to the over use of indiscriminate force.

But that's just my view.
 
phoenix80 said:
Like terrorists these liberals always defend here on this forum tend to adhere to the type of restraints these guys talk about.... So sad... these liberals are obsessed with hate for military and service people
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Okay that was my freaking imagination then ^^^^^^^^^^!
 
Phoenix needs some tranquilizers.
I don't think anyone would really deny that a lot of leftists do in fact seem to at least emotionally support the terrorists but by placing that sort of post right in the middle of InfernO's post makes it like you're suggesting he is one. He's already established that he's served and seems to even come from a family with some military tradition.
You can't call everyone who disagrees with you a leftist communist, America hating liberal.
Some of the people I respect most (some with a military background) are in fact against the war in Iraq. Their view towards that or other conflicts does not necessarily affect how I think of them. The same should apply to you.
 
Phoenix, maybe your heart is in the right place, I don't know, but personally I think that you are trying too hard to appear as "somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan". It has come to my attention that many of your articles here are often of a standard that could be viewed as nothing more than hard line propaganda. So much so as to lose credibility in my eyes, and it seems in the eyes of others.

It is a fact that the "truth" generally lies somewhere between the extremities of any debate such as these on this forum. IMO your views seem to be at the end of the scale and really it does you no favours.
 
I can't burn Phoenix 80, but, this conversation has many bends in it, and , this is , kinda getting further and further from the route source. And the fact that some of the more recent post in this thread, have NO relation to the Lockheed Martin AC 130 Specter , and or it's USAF crews. Or U.S. military operations or doctrine. And some how , some way, it turned into the scrutiny of Phoenix 80, the author of this thread. Cause for those who did say something, and I mean this in a calm, mature non offensive manner, I think that's we have a PM feature for.

I will admit I have comments in this thread that mislead the topic. And I rightly share the burn. But that has me pondering a question.

Does this happen often?
 
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Sukio said:
I can't burn Phoenix 80, but, this conversation has many bends in it, and , this is , kinda getting further and further from the route source. And the fact that some of the more recent post in this thread, have NO relation to the Lockheed Martin AC 130 Specter , and or it's USAF crews. Or U.S. military operations or doctrine. And some how , some way, it turned into the scrutiny of Phoenix 80, the author of this thread. Cause for those who did say something, and I mean this in a calm, mature non offensive manner, I think that's we have a PM feature for.

I will admit I have comments in this thread that mislead the topic. And I rightly share the burn. But that has me pondering a question.

Does this happen often?
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Sukio, I'm not PMing this to you as I feel that others have a right to read it also as with my previous post.

What you say is absolutely correct, and a very astute judgement for a young man of your age. I guess that it's just a part of human nature, some of us just don't suffer fools easily. No, I am not implying that P80 or anyone else, is a fool per se. What I am suggesting is,perhaps some persons should just ease up a bit.

Many of the worlds troubles (especially those discussed on this forum) are linked to fanaticism and they won't be solved by extremist views. Extremism is just fanaticism in a pretty wrapper. Problems are only caused by fanaticism, never solved.

Right, wrong or indifferent, at times I see P80's (and a few others) views here as extremist. I am not baiting him or flaming him, just pointing out that perhaps his presentation is doing his agenda no favours and that he would be given far greater credibility if he were to see some shades of grey. No debate is purely black and white.

Yes Sukio, your point was quite valid so this is the last I will say on the matter here unless I am asked.
 
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Sukio said:
I can't burn Phoenix 80, but, this conversation has many bends in it, and , this is , kinda getting further and further from the root source. And the fact that some of the more recent post in this thread, have NO relation to the Lockheed Martin AC 130 Specter, and or it's USAF crews. Or U.S. military operations or doctrine. And some how, some way, it turned into the scrutiny of Phoenix 80, the author of this thread.
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To correct you, Sukio, I am the author of this thread. And I posted it to provoke a discussion on the doctrine and use of the AC-130, in light of more recent operations and in hopes of producing comments from those members who have served in areas where this aircraft has been used in this role. I, as a moderator, have been monitoring this discussion off and on and 03USMC beat me to it, but I certainly agree with his assessment concerning the off-topic comments by some posters.

The topic of the thread is as stated : a discussion on the doctrine and use of the AC-130.

Now, again, let's stick to the subject and stop the name calling and baiting and flaming comments. You all know who I am referring to and I won't mind handing out infractions the next time this happens.
 
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