Google, Bastion of Oppression
have you seen bulldogg getting jailed (I don't know what if oneday, he pretent to be disappeared and leave the country. are you going to blame china again) you can ask for more freedom or writing to government official in china (that's what most chinese do in daily life but only with respect. not the way like bulldog) but if you happen to be an spy hired by "other country". you will be "in trouble". you see how concerned usa would become when someone get jailed here, have you realized it's an secret deal behind the door. probaly you don't realize how many tourist foreign student are here, in every major city there's other asian skorean japi vietna blah neignorhood, there're people from south east asian coming here for construction and manufacturing job ect. the nk,otherrefugees are larged stayed in northen china. we got freedom while kept out the ame propaganda. good moveloki said:
your english version of confucious, sounds interesting.
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CABAL
Active member
One of the important rules of commiting fair and safe international business practices is to abide to a foreign nation's law at all times. If the Chinese people are not happy with the government regulations and restrictions of internet usage, I'm expecting something big to happen. The Chinese people are fanatically loyal to their nation and indeed nationalistic. Most of this nationalism have been imbeded during China's encounter with Western nations. Instead of embracing Western ideas like Japan, China on the other hand resisted it. The Boxer Rebellion and the Opium Wars is one excellent example. During Mao's Era, millions have died of starvation and reminders of hunger haunts many of the Chinese people today, especially from the older generation. It is not the KMT or the Communist Party who shaped Modern China alone. Key military powers in Europe, Japan, America are very well involved, occupying the country with troops, looting its national treasures, and seizing key Eastern Port cities such as Tsing Tao, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. That is why China today remains resistant to Western influences because they were forefully imposed during the late 19th and early 20th Century. Some of them even have negative impacts on their Society.
20 years ago, China indeed had a lot of problems involving human rights and basic freedoms. Today it has improved and will continue to improve if these problems are to be adressed and discussed between diplomats and ambassadors. However a lot of problems continue to persist in many areas of East, West, and South Africa and yet the core nations have done little to adress the problem. Many of them are too busy with domestic politics in Iran, China, Iraq, and North Korea.
There are too many liberal comments in here supporting a ludicris global crusade for internet freedom. Whats next, Global Jihad for Internet Freedom? And a call for a Boycott for this so-called oppression of foreigners? I really do not and simply do not care what foreign legislatures impose on their own people. This has nothing to of any of the rights and freedoms of myself and any other non-PRC citizen. I will continue to use google if you like it or not and will use any product regardless it is made in India, China, Vietnam, Japan, or any other country. I show little concerns about the political freedoms of people. I am more concerned with people who needs to be fed, clothed, and given the proper education to prepare themselves for the future.
20 years ago, China indeed had a lot of problems involving human rights and basic freedoms. Today it has improved and will continue to improve if these problems are to be adressed and discussed between diplomats and ambassadors. However a lot of problems continue to persist in many areas of East, West, and South Africa and yet the core nations have done little to adress the problem. Many of them are too busy with domestic politics in Iran, China, Iraq, and North Korea.
There are too many liberal comments in here supporting a ludicris global crusade for internet freedom. Whats next, Global Jihad for Internet Freedom? And a call for a Boycott for this so-called oppression of foreigners? I really do not and simply do not care what foreign legislatures impose on their own people. This has nothing to of any of the rights and freedoms of myself and any other non-PRC citizen. I will continue to use google if you like it or not and will use any product regardless it is made in India, China, Vietnam, Japan, or any other country. I show little concerns about the political freedoms of people. I am more concerned with people who needs to be fed, clothed, and given the proper education to prepare themselves for the future.
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because you have only read history about the ming dynasty, every dynasty has reach its peak era as early as han dynasty, during last few dynasties, china achieve 1/3 gdp of the world. it really outpace the rest of world for most of century in human history, it discover america before columba, ship industry, zhenghe reach the africa, silkroad to europa,
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CABAL
Active member
Achinese. I do suggest you to put an halt on your Sino-centric views, it will draw more Sino-phobia from others.
It is true that many of the Chinese Dynasties have reached its peak, but the most successful and prominent Dynasty that reached its golden age is the Han Dynasty.
Achinese, your referral of Zheng He reaching America before Columbus is hotly debated although it is claimed by a former British Naval Officer in his Book. This claim is still not concrete and requires more in-depth research and evidence to proove whether Zheng He actually reached the Americas.
UCLA made an article about this:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=10387
It is true that many of the Chinese Dynasties have reached its peak, but the most successful and prominent Dynasty that reached its golden age is the Han Dynasty.
Achinese, your referral of Zheng He reaching America before Columbus is hotly debated although it is claimed by a former British Naval Officer in his Book. This claim is still not concrete and requires more in-depth research and evidence to proove whether Zheng He actually reached the Americas.
UCLA made an article about this:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=10387
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I don't "blame" China, please don't feel attacked so easily. I'm definitely not of the sinophobic fraction here. I only know a few chinese personally (mainly from language school I went to last summer) but those I found all very decent, warmhearted people. Much more agreeable than most germans I must say.achinese said:
Concerning bulldogg: if he posted in a chinese forum, maybe then would he get in trouble?
Yes thats true the chinese government does allow its people a lot of freedoms, i.e. freedom of travel (as you mentioned), the freedom to choose your profession, economical freedom, and so forth. Many things have improved since 20 years ago. But I think we agree that freedom of the press/information is limited. By the way - it's not just american "propaganda" sites that get banned, Wikipedia was recently censored too (I don't know for how long) and thats an encyclopedia and thus committed to providing neutral information. Now I agree that one can live just fine without abcnews and the other american newssites, but if the German government was to censor Wikipedia I would get very angry because I look things up there almost every day.achinese said:
I admit its funny how a lot of people here seem to care so much about the rights and civic liberties of the chinese people - apparantly more than the people concerned do themselves - while they show little sympathy for them otherwise.Cabal said:
ASTRALdragon
Active member
Eh I tire of this... She accuses us of being influenced by "amepropaganda" even though half of the members here are from Europe, and we all know she IS influenced by the ccp's teachings since young, so us telling her the truth about the ccp is like you telling me the Earth is cubed. It's like arguing science vs. religion; one is based on what you believe and the other is what you can prove. Let's just let the stats conducted by the UN and various other neutral forces of the world state how corrupted and low China is ranked among the world's nations in terms of human rights, intellectual property, freedom of press, etc.
As for her accusation of "sino phobia," it's more like sino-needs-to-get-their-act-together-if-it-wants-to-be-taken-seriously-as-a-world-player phobia...
As for her accusation of "sino phobia," it's more like sino-needs-to-get-their-act-together-if-it-wants-to-be-taken-seriously-as-a-world-player phobia...
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Cabal your claim that this does not affect non-Chinese is a specious and disingenuous claim. The last person arrested here was an American citizen. Your brand of isolationism is also what allowed Europe to fall under the spectre of the Third Reich. I am glad you are comfortable in your bubble of cynicism.
Loki if I post anything on any forum I can be arrested if they see fit to do it.
Loki if I post anything on any forum I can be arrested if they see fit to do it.
CABAL
Active member
I soundly disagree your statement Bulldog. For now there is no current regime in Asia that is similar to Nazis Germany although historically Cambodia's Pol Pot and Maoist China were under similar conditions. There are politicians and countless individuals who have this fetish to compare states and individuals as Nazis Germany or Hitler. First it was Iraq, Iran, North Korea, China, and then the United States. Again, they simply do not understand the magnitude and the kind of global impact what Nazis Germany was doing.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Your final statement is very instructive. I would offer the same is true of China and those who would preach not becoming involved in "internal affairs". For evil to flourish it only requires good men to do nothing. It is not laying claim to anyone or any country being perfect but a failure to improve is a heinous crime and to make excuses for it is tantamount to collusion.