Ft Hood shootings

GG9909 said:
Wow, seems his actions were well planned out and he has no valid reasons or excuses to stand upon. He still earned one way ticket to *downstairs*. Yes, I am college educated and the other end of the spectrum ...nursing.. and will have very different mindset but I don't condone killing others especially at home, in the name of religion, is just not acceptable. :( I am proud that our own lands, people and allies are for the most part, beyond that.
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What would be a valid reason or excuse in your opinion?
 
Just because he's Muslim doesn't means ALL Muslims do this. Is it because of his faith? Could be. But is that Islam's fault? Or is it his?

The impact of the interaction between mental illness and religion can be intense. When one is mentally ill one problem they will experience is deepening of their faith, even in some cases to the point of extremism. Because they may feel the world let them down, the deity they worship clearly hasn't. So to show love and faith, they'll act out. Maybe even they see it as protecting their deity. To them there is no death, because dying in the name of defending their god places them far higher in the kingdom of their god. They don't die, they just go up a level.

You'll find that with Christians and Muslims alike. The Muslims are simply more willing to as they likely feel "bullied" (my understanding from observing the numerous clashes between them and our troops in protests) by America. So to some of them that do not understand the technicalities and intricacies we face, we are the nation of Satan/evil, everything their god is against.
 
Listen, I really think a bulk of the problem came from the fact that he's an Arab and a Muslim and his patients come back from tours and talk to him about how much they want to kill Muslims and Arabs and how they're "not worth the dirt under my toenail" etc.
Hear that every day and you will start to get pushed towards the edge.
As far as the role religion played, I think that's probably the most significant way it did. I'd be surprised if it was more than that.
 
I'm rubberstamping what 19Kilo is saying about the snapping.

This guy give away almost all of his possessions prior to this to include korans. He has posted on pro - terrorist web sites.

He was trying to get out of deployment because he didn't agree with the wars due to religious reasons.

He filled out a form at his mosque looking for a wife putting down his birth place down as Virginia and his nationality as Palistinain.

He yelled Allah Akubar be for he opened fire.

Now tell me religion doesn't play a role here.

He may not be AQ but I'm bettin he a man crush on em.
 
The counter argument is that if he was really rationally pro-terrorist, he could have done more damage by keeping his job and his post. Or maybe even plan the killing of people even higher ranking.

I dunno the whole thing just sucks.
Hope the investigation reveals something of value.
 
Hmmm said:
Just because he's Muslim doesn't means ALL Muslims do this. .
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Beleive me when I say that I know that better then the average person. I'm at a Joint Security Station where I work alongside Iraqis daily. When I look to the North, I see an Iraqi city with a population of 650,000. We have one battalion of Americans working alongside a battalion of Iraqi Federal Police and local IPs. If they all wanted us dead, I'd be dead, so please save the nonsense. In case you aren't tracking, there are no American units in Iraq that work by themselves right now. We are ALL partnered with Iraqi counterparts, many of whom I have personally seen risk their lives to make their community a better place. Are they all to be trusted? Certainly not, but I have seen Iraqi soldiers who've sustained multiple wounds in the line of duty and they keep coming back to do their jobs. When a guy runs into a hostile situation right alongside you and performs to a high level, you have no choice but to respect him. Just because some Americans are prejudiced, it doesn't mean ALL of them are.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
The counter argument is that if he was really rationally pro-terrorist, he could have done more damage by keeping his job and his post. Or maybe even plan the killing of people even higher ranking.

I dunno the whole thing just sucks.
Hope the investigation reveals something of value.
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Given his duties and his billet how much good would he have been as far as intel?

He was a head shrinker. They generally are not privy to much at all in regards to movements, tactics, or strategic military matters. Yeah he could have reported what he was being told by patients but thats after the fact so it's more debrief than intel.

Had he deployed he would have been stuck in a hospital somewhere performing his duties and out of the loop on the bigger picture.

He had a man crush on AQ I'm bettin.
 
There's a lot of stuff that we don't think twice about that guys outside who wish us harm would love to know.
And a shrink... a guy who can get into the heads of American soldiers. To Al Qaeda and the like, that would be a freaking gold mine. He won't be privvy to too much high level info, but what I'm saying is this guy could have been used for bigger things. Even the things we think are mundane can be valuable information for terrorists. The value of debrief is very high.
As for his love and admiration for terrorist groups, there's no denying it, there is solid evidence for it, but I believe that it grew out of his own reaction to what his patients were telling him in addition to his own problems.
So the guy eventually went VA Tech.

03, think of it this way. Imagine you were a shrink and the US was at war with Latin America. The cause for half of the war is somewhat dubious and Latinos are getting crap left and right. In some line units it's okay because they are in the sh1t together but when your patients come to your office from their tours and tell you about how much they want to kill Latinos and how they're "not worth the dirty under my toenail" etc., repeatedly, it will take its toll on you.
Now this would be emotionally draining as hell even if you were a dedicated officer (which this guy wasn't). Might even drive you out of the military. But this guy was a complete POS. So how the heck does anyone think he's going to handle it? He can't. What I can't believe is how the leadership of that psychology counselling center FAILED to spot this. It should have been identified and he should have been forced out of the Army.
 
Really to me it sounds like the Joes got inside this assclowns head and he got scared to death of deploying.

So he decides to use his faith and as crutch as an excuse not to deploy, when that doesn't work he begins to identify with radical islam and devolpes a man crush on the radicals against the US thats forcing him to live up to his commitment.

He wasn't AQ. But racical Islam played a part.

Has far as them knowing what I'm thinking, it would probably scare the crap outta of em.
 
Yeah I suppose you can't really argue with some of that.
Regardless of what happened, he did end up in bed with radical Islam.
I still don't think radical Islam in itself was the root cause of the problem with this guy but it did play its part.

You know what? I'm just going to wait for the investigation to finish... because if you really look at it, there are many sides to this shooting that was just flat out weird and doesn't make any sense.

As for knowing what's in the American soldier's head, I mean they'd value what it is that American soldiers fear.
 
Yeah but what we fear is pretty evident we are human so the tactics they use against civilians don't have to changed much. Unless of course they are planning to deploy a Bn of Command Sgt Majors.
 
People think this **** makes America weak or faulter. All it does is piss people off and make them want to enlist. So they can to Afghanistan/Iraq and shoot at these people. Its a pretty bad cycle. Congrats Maj. you just spurred the Militarys recruiting drive.
 
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Sorry MM .....
This weirdo passed out Korans to his neighbors and was heard to announce ("God is great" .. Allah Akbar), just before he opened fire - definitely a Muslim religious announcement.

Sorry again MM ........
IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MUSLIM RELIGION, AND THE MAJOR'S INTERPRETATION OF HIS RELIGION - nothing more and nothing less.

I realize there will be people who will put forward the Major's state of mind as an excuse for his actions .. however ... how long will it take before America's political and military leaders to come to an informed conclusion, that we REALLY ARE AT WAR WITH THE MUSLIM RELIGION (at least the more extremist wing) .. and ... the Muslims need no more excuse to kill us than the fact we have a different religious viewpoint than they do.
 
19kilo30K4 said:
Beleive me when I say that I know that better then the average person. I'm at a Joint Security Station where I work alongside Iraqis daily. When I look to the North, I see an Iraqi city with a population of 650,000. We have one battalion of Americans working alongside a battalion of Iraqi Federal Police and local IPs. If they all wanted us dead, I'd be dead, so please save the nonsense. In case you aren't tracking, there are no American units in Iraq that work by themselves right now. We are ALL partnered with Iraqi counterparts, many of whom I have personally seen risk their lives to make their community a better place. Are they all to be trusted? Certainly not, but I have seen Iraqi soldiers who've sustained multiple wounds in the line of duty and they keep coming back to do their jobs. When a guy runs into a hostile situation right alongside you and performs to a high level, you have no choice but to respect him. Just because some Americans are prejudiced, it doesn't mean ALL of them are.
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Rattler
 
perseus said:
What would be a valid reason or excuse in your opinion?
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As far as I'm concerned, he has none other than the truth. He wanted out of the army and deployment and resorted to plain murder even if it meant he spends his last days in prison, safe, fed, gets to stay out of harms way and pray. :???: He valued his own skin above others. Harsh? yes, it's something I don't condone either. Cowardice. I'm a civilian but even I would pick up a gun and shoot him or someone like him and violence scares the hey out of me but I would push out of my confort zone.
 
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Heard on the news......

Ashes to Ashes
Dust to Dust
Brother to Brother

13 dead. 13 people that can never be replaced. May they look upon their families and know that I and a nation mourns for them. May God accept them into his loving kingdom and let them know that they are at peace. May Justice be served and may it be swift and righteous.

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Good to see you around Grunt. And I agree that is most important thing. Remember the fallen.
 
Chief Bones said:
Sorry MM .....
This weirdo passed out Korans to his neighbors and was heard to announce ("God is great" .. Allah Akbar), just before he opened fire - definitely a Muslim religious announcement.

Sorry again MM ........
IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MUSLIM RELIGION, AND THE MAJOR'S INTERPRETATION OF HIS RELIGION - nothing more and nothing less.

I realize there will be people who will put forward the Major's state of mind as an excuse for his actions .. however ... how long will it take before America's political and military leaders to come to an informed conclusion, that we REALLY ARE AT WAR WITH THE MUSLIM RELIGION (at least the more extremist wing) .. and ... the Muslims need no more excuse to kill us than the fact we have a different religious viewpoint than they do.
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Allah Akbar is akin to saying to Westerners saying "God Bless You". It means nothing in and of itself. I have heard similar comments made by devout Christians doesn't mean we lump them into the Radical category.

And handing out Korans, the Johavahs witnesses hand out bibles. Again, and of itself...meaningless.

And if we are going to declare war on Radical Islam we ought to declare war on all radicals in religion, last I checked Jim Jones and David Koresh were NOT muslims.

And to the person who said he sold his belongings. Alot of loons do that before they commit their crimes. It shows it was premeditated but it doesnt provide proof of radical...anything. Charles Whitman premedated his actions before he started sniping people off the UT roof, and he was defiantly a loon of the local variety.

So far all we have is He's a religious muslim, which people are automatically jumping to conclusions. The suspect has also been reported to have had a disciplinary problems, suffered from anxienty (possibly truama treating other patients PTSD), alcohol abuse (depression), (which would contradict the religious angle) and exposure to radical religion.

I am not saying its not a possibility, only that people are jumping to fast conclusions based on little actual evidence. Whatever evidence you might think you have that proofs hes a religious nut, there is equal amount of evidence to prove hes just a typical nut. So lets not all be jumping to conclusions.

I find it curious that the suspect never displayed anger toward the army, to American policy in the Arab World, or ever once talked of using violence. That doesn't sound like your radical Islamist. We do know that he was extremely tormented individual on a personal level, that has been verified.
 
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