Firearms Possession discussion (in response to yet another US shooting)

Trooper1854 said:
Two Fire Fighters in the USA have been shot dead while responding to a fire in an apparent trap.
What next?
Arm the Fire Fighters?
While you're at it give the EMS guns too!
Absolute madness!
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Capt Frogman said:
I'm sure George will be along to provide another excellent solution. :D
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New York, like Conn., is a tough gun law State. The bushwacker was also a convicted felon, so once again tough gun laws failed.
 
Re: the recent events at a Connecticut School

I don’t know what the answer is but I doubt that revoking out constitutional rights is an answer - arguably more damage is done by the first amendment than the second.
I do know this - back in the early ‘90’s there was an indoor gun range outside Orlando, FL, which catered to the Foreign tourist (all those “civilized” countries where firearms are banned). All those people from Europe and Asia who came for Disney World and Universal Studios couldn’t wait to shoot “Cowboy” guns and “Dirty Harry’s” pistol. They also would pay just about anything for the privilege.

I understand that there are other ranges like this, I know there is one in Las Vegas.

So you people who are denied firearms, to some extent, finance and support our “Gun Culture”.
 
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muscogeemike said:
Re: the recent events at a Connecticut School

I don’t know what the answer is but I doubt that revoking out constitutional rights is an answer - arguably more damage is done by the first amendment that the second.
I do know this - back in the early ‘90’s there was an indoor gun range outside Orlando, FL, which catered to the Foreign tourist (all those “civilized” countries where firearms are banned). All those people from Europe and Asia who came for Disney World and Universal Studios couldn’t wait to shoot “Cowboy” guns and “Dirty Harry’s” pistol. They also would pay just about anything for the privilege.

I understand that there are other ranges like this, I know there is one in Las Vegas.

So you people who are denied firearms, to some extent, finance and support our “Gun Culture”.
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I would argue that you have missed the point.
When in the US I shoot a lot mainly pistols because pistols are incredibly difficult to get your hands on here so it is something different so yes in many respects you are right but according to George, 5.56 and a bunch of Americans I live in a "Socialist" society where firearms are heavily restricted, licensed and the rules enforced yet I can buy damn near any weapon (MSA, Suppressed etc.) over the phone and here is the real kicker, the last mass shooting in this country was in 1990 before the rules that I now live under came into effect.

How do you explain this?

I put it down to the fact that even though you may consider them draconian (despite the reality that I can buy more powerful weapons than you can) our firearms laws work and yours don't.
 
MontyB said:
I would argue that you have missed the point.
When in the US I shoot a lot mainly pistols because pistols are incredibly difficult to get your hands on here so it is something different so yes in many respects you are right but according to George, 5.56 and a bunch of Americans I live in a "Socialist" society where firearms are heavily restricted, licensed and the rules enforced yet I can buy damn near any weapon (MSA, Suppressed etc.) over the phone and here is the real kicker, the last mass shooting in this country was in 1990 before the rules that I now live under came into effect.

How do you explain this?

I put it down to the fact that even though you may consider them draconian (despite the reality that I can buy more powerful weapons than you can) our firearms laws work and yours don't.
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Well you can have security or liberty, but not both. So what do you want? Armed men in black escorting you through the shopping mall? And watching you in the bathroom on camera?

Does that make you feel safe?

America is all about catalysts, events and emotions being used to justify how things are done. It's how our country unofficially works. These shooting while disgusting, and very tragic.

Makes the temptation to cry on camera and shove these images in front of people to "justify" taking our rights.

This isn't with firearms only.

Goes simply like this, show some crying babies tug at people's emotions and pretty much say

"look you can't handle yourselves, hand over your rights because you are in critical danger, you need safety because we said so, here is a montage of more crying babies."

We do it for our wars, we do it to restrict everything from air travel to phone tapping. It's how America works.

Pretty much burning the Riechstag
 
Yossarian said:
Well you can have security or liberty, but not both. So what do you want? Armed men in black escorting you through the shopping mall? And watching you in the bathroom on camera?

Does that make you feel safe?
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Why cant you have both?
I accept that at each end of the spectrum you have to give up something but in the end for all your "freedoms" what can't I do that you can?

The claim that the 2nd Amendment is somehow a guarantee of your freedom is clearly a nonsense when I don't have the benefit of it yet have exactly the same freedoms.

About the only thing I can think of is that I can not buy a firearm for defense purposes but given that I don't need one for that purpose who cares.
 
MontyB said:
I would argue that you have missed the point.
When in the US I shoot a lot mainly pistols because pistols are incredibly difficult to get your hands on here so it is something different so yes in many respects you are right but according to George, 5.56 and a bunch of Americans I live in a "Socialist" society where firearms are heavily restricted, licensed and the rules enforced yet I can buy damn near any weapon (MSA, Suppressed etc.) over the phone and here is the real kicker, the last mass shooting in this country was in 1990 before the rules that I now live under came into effect.

How do you explain this?

I put it down to the fact that even though you may consider them draconian (despite the reality that I can buy more powerful weapons than you can) our firearms laws work and yours don't.
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We could order guns by phone/mail untill the over reaction to the Kennedy/King/Kennedy assasinations in the 60s. Silencers are another thing we can have if we're willing to pay the Fed. Tax. Politicians got scared by their depiction in movies. Heard that's why pump shotguns are on the Aussie list, some politician watched The Terminator while making up the list of banned guns.

Yossarian said:
Well you can have security or liberty, but not both. So what do you want? Armed men in black escorting you through the shopping mall? And watching you in the bathroom on camera?
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Personal self defence is a basic freedom, one's own security. A Founding Father warned against giving up Liberty in exchange for promises of security, another point of the importance of ownership & the issuance of CCWs so I am responcible, not someone else. The Courts have ruled the Police are for protecting "The Masses", but individuals are responcible for thier own safety.
 
MontyB said:
The claim that the 2nd Amendment is somehow a guarantee of your freedom is clearly a nonsense when I don't have the benefit of it yet have exactly the same freedoms.

About the only thing I can think of is that I can not buy a firearm for defense purposes but given that I don't need one for that purpose who cares.
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I am not approaching this from the perspective of a gun nut. Now do I clutch an issue of Guns and Ammo every night as I go to sleep.

But Americanize this problem and understand that the repealing and loss of the 2nd Amendment will be a cornerstone in an already accelerating violation of our rights.

It's a key step in the slowly erosion of what we are supposed to be Guaranteed under our Constitution. Sure If I were a outsider looking in I would also be thinking "So what's the big deal here?"

But we have just one little problem with that, our country was founded on protection of those rights. Kinda changes things a bit.

This argument is just a chapter, and however you look at it will be one of the biggest chapters in the evolution or destruction of the Constitution.
 
Rowan said:
The American gun sickness continues.. Volunteers responding to a fire shot to death at Christmas. The US society is stuffed and unable to heal itself! I'm a vol firefighter in Australia. It's inconceivable this could happen here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/24/us-usa-newyork-shooting-idUSBRE8BN0HB20121224
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Yeah, that's what this part of the Thread is about. I don't recall any other numnutz bushwacking fire fighters before, but once again a guy targeting people he knows are unarmed. His sister is missing, probably in the house, it also burned down 5 other houses.
 
I am sure the NRA will advocate armed personnel on fire trucks next, I am convinced the answer is just to hand out firearms at birth to Americans sure some of those babies will be nut jobs but since guns don't kill people what does it matter if a few million weapons end up in crazy hands.
 
MontyB said:
I am sure the NRA will advocate armed personnel on fire trucks next, I am convinced the answer is just to hand out firearms at birth to Americans sure some of those babies will be nut jobs but since guns don't kill people what does it matter if a few million weapons end up in crazy hands.
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Or the few crazy hands end up being the only ones with firearms.

Again, you have to understand, yes your society maybe different in that respect, but I have a darn good feeling America will not turn out as the truest display of prosperity and be identical to yours when firearms are taken from the people.

What I am voicing is the large differences between Americans relationships with firearms, especially our leaders and suddenly having that vacuum created. Our policy makers may act very differently carrying out such an edict than yours.
 
MontyB said:
I am sure the NRA will advocate armed personnel on fire trucks next, I am convinced the answer is just to hand out firearms at birth to Americans sure some of those babies will be nut jobs but since guns don't kill people what does it matter if a few million weapons end up in crazy hands.
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I fully agree! Everyone in the US should have a gun. Things would be bloody for a while but in the end we would have a much more polite society.

Among other evils that being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised. Niccolo Machiavelli

We’ve (the USA) lost our killer instinct, we haven’t destroyed a country in years. Listen world – don’t get too cocky out there, the real Americans are still here and one day we’re gonna wake up from our drunken stupor.. and say “what the hell happened here”.
On that day we’ll grab our guns, down one more beer, and kill, and kill, and kill – until this is the great country it once was. Mr. Floppy, UNHAPPILY EVER AFTER
 
muscogeemike said:
We’ve (the USA) lost our killer instinct, we haven’t destroyed a country in years. Listen world – don’t get too cocky out there, the real Americans are still here and one day we’re gonna wake up from our drunken stupor.. and say “what the hell happened here”.
On that day we’ll grab our guns, down one more beer, and kill, and kill, and kill – until this is the great country it once was. Mr. Floppy, UNHAPPILY EVER AFTER
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America matured as an international player...
 
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