Extra 100 Islamic schools.
senojekips
Active member
Now here is a perfect example of you proving that you do not read the answers of others in this thread. I have stated several times that I am not interested in the subject of the thread and that I merely came in to express my opinion (as have others) that your questions had been answered and that your constant refusal to accept this fact was just stalling the debate. Yet in spite of me having repeated this several times, you keep bleating that I will not debate your points.
Again, Your argument is flawed in that it is the argument of a thinly disguised racist on this subject. (Repeated for the second, or is it the third time, because you don't read the answers to your posts.
In your opinion alone, however I do seem to have somewhat more support than yourself, so that opinion may rest on it's laurels.
You are whining again, for Christ's sakes man grow up a bit, and take it on the chin. You forget, you asked for it, how many times do you have to be told..... Yes,... I know, you must be told in every post, Because you don't read them.
But that has been the whole point, you do not wish the subject to progress, unless it progresses in the direction that you chose, and as soon as someone puts up an answer you don't like, you refuse to accept it and go into your circling mode as you have here.
So,.... in a vain attempt to prevent the moderators shutting this thread down I will withdraw and leave you to it, so don't bother asking more inane questions that have already been answered as I will not be reading them. I will leave it to you to misunderstand or deny what has been said, which of course, you will.
Last edited:
Senojekips -
You are talking complete tosh. Cut out the vicious personal insults that you cannot back up, you fool.
I have not been attempting to drag you into a debate.
You dragged yorself in claiming, as you have here again, that my argument was argument was 'deeply flawed'.
So I politely asked you to point out where and why, being somewhat bemused by the accusation.
Surprisingly - I found that you were unable to so. How can anyone make such a claim and then not be able to substantiate it?.
Then - to say that my case is 'deeply flawed' with no substantiation except to yell from the touchline that I am racist is a complete cop out, particularly as that is another accusation which you are absolutely unable to substantiate because it is totally untrue.
My views on the subject of the situation here in Britain are held purely in the name of harmony between countrymen, and are widely shared by good men and true of all demonitaions here, including Muslims. I am simply against division leading to breakdown. This has been made clear by my evidence to that effect.
All this you pig -headedly ignore and refuse to answer by saying that you don't want to debate it.
iF YOU DON'T WANT TO DEBATE THE ISSUES THEN you shouldn't throw accusations you are unable to back up.
If you make incaccurate and misleading accusations aginst me and my case, of course I am going to respond and call for you to prove it.
Why should I allow you to get away with calling me a racist - stand up like a man and take the flack. Don't shelter behind lying accusations like a tart.
I know very well that your aim has been to suffocate this thread by getting it stopped ; to stifle the issue has been your intent , and you are prepared to assassinate characters in your attempt. You don't fool me for one moment.
You just want to shoot the messenger. It is just not possible to pin racism upon me. Evidence please.
But no more of that claptrap if you don't mind.
Give me the detail - show me the evidence that my argument is flawed and that I am a racist before you scurry away.
FACTS - NOT ACCUSATIONS!
You are talking complete tosh. Cut out the vicious personal insults that you cannot back up, you fool.
I have not been attempting to drag you into a debate.
You dragged yorself in claiming, as you have here again, that my argument was argument was 'deeply flawed'.
So I politely asked you to point out where and why, being somewhat bemused by the accusation.
Surprisingly - I found that you were unable to so. How can anyone make such a claim and then not be able to substantiate it?.
Then - to say that my case is 'deeply flawed' with no substantiation except to yell from the touchline that I am racist is a complete cop out, particularly as that is another accusation which you are absolutely unable to substantiate because it is totally untrue.
My views on the subject of the situation here in Britain are held purely in the name of harmony between countrymen, and are widely shared by good men and true of all demonitaions here, including Muslims. I am simply against division leading to breakdown. This has been made clear by my evidence to that effect.
All this you pig -headedly ignore and refuse to answer by saying that you don't want to debate it.
iF YOU DON'T WANT TO DEBATE THE ISSUES THEN you shouldn't throw accusations you are unable to back up.
If you make incaccurate and misleading accusations aginst me and my case, of course I am going to respond and call for you to prove it.
Why should I allow you to get away with calling me a racist - stand up like a man and take the flack. Don't shelter behind lying accusations like a tart.
I know very well that your aim has been to suffocate this thread by getting it stopped ; to stifle the issue has been your intent , and you are prepared to assassinate characters in your attempt. You don't fool me for one moment.
You just want to shoot the messenger. It is just not possible to pin racism upon me. Evidence please.
But no more of that claptrap if you don't mind.
Give me the detail - show me the evidence that my argument is flawed and that I am a racist before you scurry away.
FACTS - NOT ACCUSATIONS!
Last edited:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Come on guys, no more name calling.
senojekips
Active member
Quite so, Redneck. There is nothing I would like better.
I tried to be civil, but if you read back through the posts you will see that he demanded to know, on no less than two occasions why I thought his argument was flawed, he then tried to reason that because I would not answer, my view was invalid,.... so, I told him. Now he's bitter about it.
As I said, if there's a chance you won't like the answer, don't ask the question.
I don't deliberately cause trouble, but I won't allow someone to use my good manners as a reason to claim my argument is incorrect.
Last edited:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yeah... Del Boy this isn't the first time.
Like I say again and again, this is just an online forum. It's a good place to post your ideas and see what other people make of it. If they can pick apart your idea with lots of backing information, then it's perhaps time for you to re-evaluate your position as well. If not, then just leave it at that.
Leave the fist fights for the real world.
Like I say again and again, this is just an online forum. It's a good place to post your ideas and see what other people make of it. If they can pick apart your idea with lots of backing information, then it's perhaps time for you to re-evaluate your position as well. If not, then just leave it at that.
Leave the fist fights for the real world.
senojekips
Active member
Very true Redneck.
In my initial post regarding this matter I did say that he had some valid points, but,....
This is probably the case with nearly every debatable subject on this forum, none of us get it 100% right all the time. Being unable to accept this fact will often lead to a bad outcome.
In my initial post regarding this matter I did say that he had some valid points, but,....
This is probably the case with nearly every debatable subject on this forum, none of us get it 100% right all the time. Being unable to accept this fact will often lead to a bad outcome.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
People don't like to admit that disagreements are often healthy because only then can you re-evaluate something you think is true which could be in fact, false.
I just think it's a no brainer really.
I know in the real world sometimes you got to back a side even though they're somewhat wrong in a particular case because they're the side that you have more common grounds with and it's more beneficial for you if they are the ones calling the shots. But in a forum with ideas and no real need to go and grab power or anything I think this is a good opportunity to evaluate our ideas.
Just my 2 cents.
Name calling is just a waste of time
I just think it's a no brainer really.
I know in the real world sometimes you got to back a side even though they're somewhat wrong in a particular case because they're the side that you have more common grounds with and it's more beneficial for you if they are the ones calling the shots. But in a forum with ideas and no real need to go and grab power or anything I think this is a good opportunity to evaluate our ideas.
Just my 2 cents.
Name calling is just a waste of time
OK Redneck - Let us take a look at this.
This thread has been hijacked - I am the one who has produced evidence on the topic. I am the one prepared to argue the issue and I do not expect agreement on any matter, as long as the opposing views are fairly aired. But to a great degree, group political agendas try to close out open and common-sense debate. They do not want issues unpopular with them given a showing if they cannot negate them. They invoke the old-time SPIKE to get rid of them. My views here are soundly based, why should I allow them to be trampled without proper debate.
1. Senojekips has claimed that my argument is deeply flawed .
I say to him - PROVE IT.
2. Senojekips - has disgustingly accused me of being being a racist, to which I take the greatest offence.
I say to him - PROVE IT.
3. Senojekips has boasted of support on this thread.
BUT I have the posted support here of:
1.MANZOUR MOGHAL - CHAIRMAN OF THE MUSLIM FORUM
2.SHAHID MALIK MUSLIM INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT MINISTER - MEMBER OF COMMISSION FOR RACIAL EQUALITY
3.TREVOR PHILLIPS - HEAD OF RACE RELATIONS
4.PAKISTANI BISHOP NAZIR ALI
Well, that'll do for me.
Do I need to produce more? Or do you expect me to submit to uninformed mob rule from those who do not like the facts of the matter? I do not seek popularity, but truth.
My approach is always purely reactive - if I am accorded politeness, I re-act with politeness. If someone wants to abuse me, then I respond accordingly. ( just look at Inferno's latest post, for example, simply sniping - no substance, not worthy of response). It would be nice, at the very least, to see some accurate counter-argument, or even just counter argument, on such important issues.
One thing is certain - I am not the racist here.
...............................................................
'If you're going through Hell, keep going'
Last edited:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
On one of the topics touched here... I find more tolerance for Christianity in many Muslim countries opposed to many European countries.
In Europe it's almost like an "embarrasment" if you're "still" Christian but in Indonesia, Christmas is celebrated without restraint (more or less) and there are Churches etc. It seems like Christianity is harder to mention in some Western countries.
Saudi Arabia has this issue with Churches and so did Afghanistan but those are not the majority.
Take it from someone who lived many years in Muslim countries.
Also, lots of Christians in Turkey. I've known a few Jews in Turkey too though they don't enjoy as much freedom as Christians.
In Europe it's almost like an "embarrasment" if you're "still" Christian but in Indonesia, Christmas is celebrated without restraint (more or less) and there are Churches etc. It seems like Christianity is harder to mention in some Western countries.
Saudi Arabia has this issue with Churches and so did Afghanistan but those are not the majority.
Take it from someone who lived many years in Muslim countries.
Also, lots of Christians in Turkey. I've known a few Jews in Turkey too though they don't enjoy as much freedom as Christians.
Redneck - yes, very interesting info re. attitude to christians in Europe as against in Muslim countries, first hand too. Respect. I have aleady commented on the better situations in Turkey and Indonesia on this issue, but I did make the point that , with the exception of Iran, all of those, let us say, rather more tolerant countries in this respect, are among those under threat of militant Islamists ,unfortunately.
However, the only point of my argument was that while such matters, the four examples taken together as a measure of discrimination, the finger of which had been unfairly pointed at Britain, I merely asked how many Muslim countries countenanced these matters, that is, building of churches, ringing of bells, christian festival(Christmas etc.) celebrations, and proselytizing permissable.
I believe I am right in stating that new christian churches do not get built in many, that church bell ringing is not encouraged in many, that in many Christian festivals are not acceptable, and that ,widely, proselytizing in not acceptable at all .
I would argue that, as a measure, all four together would eliminate all Musim countries, but I would be more than pleased to hear info to the contrary. So my in opinion the answer should probably have been 'none' in all honesty.
Now in Britain, all four of these tests, converted into Muslim requirements, are not only allowed, but given encouragement, and new mosques spring up daily.
So how on earth can Britain's problems of division be put down to dicrimination against Muslims, particularly when we see the rush of Muslims to gain entry? This was all I was trying to establish. Quite justifiably.
We have our Muslim International Minister telling us on this thread that Britain is the best place in the world for Muslims to live, including Islamic countries!
So much for charges of discrimination and racism. That was the only purpose of my question, and I consider it a fair one.
Remember that the topic of this thread, before Inferno introduced discrimination, was the 100 new Muslim faith schools prposed by our government.
****
Well - I am now pleased to announce that this thread has run its natural course, because hot off the press today comes the news that my Government has done a U turn, with this announcement:-
"Labour Minister Ed Balls yesterday signalled a shift in policy on faith schools. Despite expansion of the sector being a key policy under Tony Blair, the Schools Secretary told MPs it was not the policy of the Government or my department to promote more faith schools".
There, you see how quickly my Government takes on board what I say, and obviously it shows that they are watching this forum carefully.
(I just wish the rest of you would pay more attention. Wake up at the back!)
Thank you for your attention Redneck.
Del Boy.
However, the only point of my argument was that while such matters, the four examples taken together as a measure of discrimination, the finger of which had been unfairly pointed at Britain, I merely asked how many Muslim countries countenanced these matters, that is, building of churches, ringing of bells, christian festival(Christmas etc.) celebrations, and proselytizing permissable.
I believe I am right in stating that new christian churches do not get built in many, that church bell ringing is not encouraged in many, that in many Christian festivals are not acceptable, and that ,widely, proselytizing in not acceptable at all .
I would argue that, as a measure, all four together would eliminate all Musim countries, but I would be more than pleased to hear info to the contrary. So my in opinion the answer should probably have been 'none' in all honesty.
Now in Britain, all four of these tests, converted into Muslim requirements, are not only allowed, but given encouragement, and new mosques spring up daily.
So how on earth can Britain's problems of division be put down to dicrimination against Muslims, particularly when we see the rush of Muslims to gain entry? This was all I was trying to establish. Quite justifiably.
We have our Muslim International Minister telling us on this thread that Britain is the best place in the world for Muslims to live, including Islamic countries!
So much for charges of discrimination and racism. That was the only purpose of my question, and I consider it a fair one.
Remember that the topic of this thread, before Inferno introduced discrimination, was the 100 new Muslim faith schools prposed by our government.
****
Well - I am now pleased to announce that this thread has run its natural course, because hot off the press today comes the news that my Government has done a U turn, with this announcement:-
"Labour Minister Ed Balls yesterday signalled a shift in policy on faith schools. Despite expansion of the sector being a key policy under Tony Blair, the Schools Secretary told MPs it was not the policy of the Government or my department to promote more faith schools".
There, you see how quickly my Government takes on board what I say, and obviously it shows that they are watching this forum carefully.
(I just wish the rest of you would pay more attention. Wake up at the back!)
Thank you for your attention Redneck.
Del Boy.
Last edited: