Discussion about Palestine

Peaceful

Active member
I hear all the time that Israel stole palestinian land.

But to steal, you have to have someone you steal off.

I tried to find information online about the State Of Palestine, yet I couldn't find anything.

1) So why do people say Israel stole lands, when there was never a Palestinian country to steal from ?

2) I read Jordan and Egypt were holding the West-Bank and Gaza, why didn't they create a Palestinian state ?
 
I hear all the time that Israel stole palestinian land.

But to steal, you have to have someone you steal off.

I tried to find information online about the State Of Palestine, yet I couldn't find anything.

1) So why do people say Israel stole lands, when there was never a Palestinian country to steal from ?

2) I read Jordan and Egypt were holding the West-Bank and Gaza, why didn't they create a Palestinian state ?

With land they do not mean peoples land but muslim land. It's a religious thing. Land that once belonged to muslim leaders always stays muslim land. So in the mind of the fanatic clerics the Jews stole muslim land not Palestinian land. Use google to find some maps about the islamic conquest and you get a pretty good idea what land "belongs" to them.

Jordan and Egypt are muslim countries, so that's not a problem.

In 1947 the "Palestinians" (muslims) didn't want a country they just wanted the Jews out of muslim land. Any muslim leader or country was OK for them.
 
I hear all the time that Israel stole palestinian land.

But to steal, you have to have someone you steal off.

I tried to find information online about the State Of Palestine, yet I couldn't find anything.

1) So why do people say Israel stole lands, when there was never a Palestinian country to steal from ?

2) I read Jordan and Egypt were holding the West-Bank and Gaza, why didn't they create a Palestinian state ?

1) you are right, this land was called palestine by the romans, later this land was in the ottoman empire's hands and than conquered by the british in WW1. in all of those years jewish people lived in this land. untill these days more than 80% of the palestinains are from jewish origins who were forced to live the land or to change their religion (not sure about the numbers). muslims believe that this land is theirs because they were here once, but if you play by their rules its still our land because our ancestors came here before the islamic religion even existed.

2) jordan and egypt dont care about palestinians, they care only about destroying israel. when jorden occupied the west bank in 1949 they didnt tought for 1 second to give it to the palestinains. you know why? because there was no palestinians back there. there were only arabs who lived here. only after 1967 when they realised they cant beat us and throw us to the sea they started with all the "palestine" b******t...
and as for gaza, in 2005 israel completely pulled out of Gaza strip and left the palestinians a government building to help them start. you know what they did to that building? burned it to the ground. with all the money they are getting from all around the world, they should have become a strong intelligent nation, but instead they are ignorant poor people who are forced to live under Hamas terror (which is spending all the money on weapons).
 
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I hear all the time that Israel stole palestinian land.

But to steal, you have to have someone you steal off

I tried to find information online about the State Of Palestine, yet I couldn't find anything.

1) So why do people say Israel stole lands, when there was never a Palestinian country to steal from ?

2) I read Jordan and Egypt were holding the West-Bank and Gaza, why didn't they create a Palestinian state ?

From your phrasing I would assume that you are just trolling, you really need to use the "Search" facility provided, because all of your subject has been answered innumerable times on this Forum

But, again,.... "Ask the occupants of the Palestinian refugee camps in the countries surrounding Israel what happened to their land and homes and you'll find your answer". It's not a secret nor is it rocket science.

The answer of VD regarding this being a Muslim religious thing has also been disproven time and time again. Christian Palestinians also want the Jews off their land so that story is Bullsh!t. He only keeps pushing this story because he knows that for the Jews, it is a religious thing, not the Palestinians, they just want the land they have lived on for centuries.
 
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you don't need to have a state to lose your land. The modern nation state is western creation and only came into existence in the 19th century.

the native americans who were dispossessed of land and resources never had a formal state. The Kurds don't have a state, but no one doubts they were forced out of parts of the middle east or the armenians were forced out of what became turkey. There are many people's who don't have their own countries. some who amount to millions, the karen and kachin peoples of burma are examples, as well as large numbers of tribal groups in africa. Just because the local arabs didn't have a state with an army and borders and flags and an airline doesn't make them less of a people. As to whether the local arabs considered themselves palestinians in the 1870s to the 1940s, documents from that time period could tell you.

Peoples have land taken from them all the time, by their own governments and other countries.
This frequently happens during war. The romany people of europe are the result of defeated armies moving west over the centuries from northern india.

At the end of ww2, vast numbers of germans were forced west and their lands given to poland.

England is the name given to a land colonised by the angles, saxons, jutes, vikings etc.

When large numbers of peoples arrive in a new place where there are inhabitants, they are often militarily aggressive or technologically superior.

If large enough numbers come they create new identities and cultures and the existing peoples are quite often submerged or assimilated

If small numbers invade, which has quite often been the case throughout history, they themselves can become assimilated. The qing dynasty of china was a manchurian dynasty which assimilated into the han chinese population
The normans who conquered england assimilated into the anglosaxon peoples there.

The mongols who conquered all of asia became part of the peoples they conquered.

Throughout history it isn't that often entire peoples are exterminated and replaced by invaders. The arab armies who conquered the middle east didn't replace the existing peoples. They overlaid their culture and religion. Genealogically the arabs of israel and the west bank have dna markers going back thousands of years.

Sometimes the existing inhabitants are dispossessed and relegated to the fringes, economically and politically. The berbers of north africa complain about this.

Not all colonising is permanent despite time. The french controlled algeria for more than 130 years and had more than 1 millions colonists there, however they weren't enough to survive against the millions of arab algerians who were kept under permanent french military occupation. The colonies can't survive on their own militarily or financially they can fall.

white Colonists in eastern africa were forced out, because they were few in numbers in comparison to black africans. There are millions of white afrikaaners and white english speaking peoples in south africa, they may prove numerous enough to stop the black south africans forcing them to the margins or even out of south africa.

Israel could be said to a western colony created by technologically advanced and educated european jewry starting from 1870s. The reasons are clear, a desire for a safe homeland and the religious attachment to that area in particular.
The reason the local arabs were unhappy is that the jews who came made no secret that they wanted to create a state for jews , by the 1920s, in 50 years the jewish percentage of what would become israel moved from 5 % to more than 30% and there was regular fighting between the two communities.
Israel won and the local arabs were forced / left what would ecome israel, they moved to the west bank, gaza and other arab countries. With the exception of jordan, ( and the arabs who lived there still aren't happy at the numbers of palestinians who moved to jordan) most arab countries refused to give citizenship to the palestinians and many were forced to live in 'temporary' refugee camps which their descendants live in today. many arab countries thought that israel's existence would be temporary and the arabs would go back. Even after it became clear they could not, they were used by the arab countries to show they considered israel temporary.

There was fighting between the local arabs and israelfor the next 30 years. As well as regular wars between the arab states and israel. Israel consistently won.

If you view this as simply as a fight between two peoples in the same land, then you might ask why don't the palestinians stop, however many palestinians view the israelis as settlers and colonisers. From their point of view, regaining what they lost is something they have legitimate reasons to fight for.

attacks by people who have been colonised and conquered is common throughout history. they either are successful or they are put down

In the grand scheme of things, peoples lose their identities, who now remembers the phoenicians or sparta or moghul peoples ( well they do, but people don't consider themselves spartans or phoenicians etc) There are endless countries which are long gone over europe, asian, africa and the americas.

The iranians may have been sassanids and followers of the zoroaster, however the vast majority would not longer wish to go back to those days. Nor do the turks wish to recreate the byzantine empire etc.

It may take 200 years (unless israel gets brutal and depopulates the west bank and gaza - that stopped the iranians rebelling against the mongols - it took seven hundred years for parts of the country to return to their pre mongol populations) but either the palestinians will accept israel's existence and adapt to it, or will become militarily strong and take what they considered theirs.

That may seem unlikely now, but I am always reminded of prussia, which used to be called an army with a country. but it only became a militarised society in the early 19th century. Germany once made the world tremble and now its army is relatively small and week and its society as a whole is hostile to it.
 
From your phrasing I would assume that you are just trolling, you really need to use the "Search" facility provided, because all of your subject has been answered innumerable times on this Forum

But, again,.... "Ask the occupants of the Palestinian refugee camps in the countries surrounding Israel what happened to their land and homes and you'll find your answer". It's not a secret nor is it rocket science.

The answer of VD regarding this being a Muslim religious thing has also been disproven time and time again. Christian Palestinians also want the Jews off their land so that story is Bullsh!t. He only keeps pushing this story because he knows that for the Jews, it is a religious thing, not the Palestinians, they just want the land they have lived on for centuries.

You are ignoring the facts as always. Keep on dreaming.
 
From your phrasing I would assume that you are just trolling, you really need to use the "Search" facility provided, because all of your subject has been answered innumerable times on this Forum

But, again,.... "Ask the occupants of the Palestinian refugee camps in the countries surrounding Israel what happened to their land and homes and you'll find your answer". It's not a secret nor is it rocket science.

The answer of VD regarding this being a Muslim religious thing has also been disproven time and time again. Christian Palestinians also want the Jews off their land so that story is Bullsh!t. He only keeps pushing this story because he knows that for the Jews, it is a religious thing, not the Palestinians, they just want the land they have lived on for centuries.
The above isn't a proof there was a Palestinian country, nice try.
 
why does the proving of a country matter? Does that mean it doesn't count?

I agree simply because the inhabitants of a region choose not to call it a country or nation does not negate the rights of the inhabitants to claim ownership.

Many of the former colonial states, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc. are working toward addressing these issues constantly to come up with workable compromises.
 
Why is it that you can find any amount of Zionazi imaginary crap, but not the simplest facts?

Wikipedia said:
(Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn; Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: פלשתינה Palestina) is a conventional name, among others, for the geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, and various adjoining lands.[1][2][3][4][5][6] The region is also known as the Land of Israel (Hebrew: ארץ־ישראל Eretz-Yisra'el),[7] the Holy Land and the Southern Levant,[8] and historically has been known by other names including Canaan, Zion, Syria Palaestina, Southern Syria, Jund Filastin and Outremer.
The boundaries of the region have changed throughout history, and were first defined in modern times by the Franco-British boundary agreement (1920) and the Transjordan memorandum of 16 September 1922, during the mandate period. Today, the region comprises the country of Israel and the Palestinian territories.
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Where are the links that prove ?

No links, no Palestine.

You do know that land mass is not created with the specific idea of forming a country?
For example the USA did not exist until 1776, Prussia existed until 1947 the fact that you can't find it on a map today does not mean it never existed, New Zealand was Aotearoa until 1645 and is now both.

You argument that something is not on a map or was never recognised as a country is irrelevant as most of the world falls into that category and lets be honest if you go back far enough you will find that the first maps of the region identify the place as Canaan not Israel.
 
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You do know that land mass is not created with the specific idea of forming a country?
For example the USA did not exist until 1776, Prussia existed until 1947 the fact that you can't find it on a map today does not mean it never existed, New Zealand was Aotearoa until 1645 and is now both.

You argument that something is not on a map or was never recognised as a country is irrelevant as most of the world falls into that category and lets be honest if you go back far enough you will find that the first maps of the region identify the place as Canaan not Israel.
I read online, that the Jews had a country until Jesus Christ, and got kicked out of it.

Than people moved into Israel and invented them selves as "Palestinians".

I'm waiting for the proof that shows I'm wrong,.........
 
"geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River"

Thank you, so Palestine isn't a nation.

Palestine is also not a baked potato, but what does that have to do with it....

But you are wrong again, anyway.

Wikipedia said:
A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history.[1] In this definition, a nation has no physical borders. However, it can also refer to people who share a common territory and government (for example the inhabitants of a sovereign state) irrespective of their ethnic make-up.[2][3] The word nation can more specifically refer to people of North American Indians, such as the Cherokee Nation that prefer this term over the contested term tribe.

Being a "nation", or whatever has nothing to do with it.
 
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I read online, that the Jews had a country until Jesus Christ, and got kicked out of it.

Than people moved into Israel and invented them selves as "Palestinians".

I'm waiting for the proof that shows I'm wrong,.........

That is debatable as outside biblical text there is very little to prove anything in the region and as the various biblical texts are just self serving fairy stories you cant use them as historical documents so as yet there is no proof that Jesus Christ existed and since you are only accepting documented proof and I doubt you have Christs birth certificate you would naturally agree that there is no proof he existed.

:)
 
That is debatable as outside biblical text there is very little to prove anything in the region and as the various biblical texts are just self serving fairy stories you cant use them as historical documents so as yet there is no proof that Jesus Christ existed and since you are only accepting documented proof and I doubt you have Christs birth certificate you would naturally agree that there is no proof he existed.

:)
Muslims too believe in Jesus ---> They believe there was an Israel 2000+ years ago.
 
enough with the zionazi rubbish. No one is a nazi here. Its just a bunch of people repeating the same argument they have had a hundred times before.

The more interesting argument ( or important if you are palestinian) is how would they create a level military / economic or political playing field? Should they accept what they can and make a treaty with Israel, on the grounds that in 50 years time they could be stronger and break the treaty. Every military strategy they have pursued has failed.

I am not a soldier but I don't understand why the military branch of hamas is so small, why don't they have mass conscription and require every male and female person to have 1 year's military training. I know its not easy to build an actual military, a recent military report I read said that they ( HAMAS) struggle to integrate more advanced military equipment into their military structures and tactics. Its not simply a case of acquiring anti tank weapons shore to ship missiles and SAMs from iran or syria.

I also don't understand why they don't pursue cyber warfare ( how hard is it to hack into banks, power grids and computer networks - not to steal but to disrupt - that by the way is an actual question)

Also why haven't they pursued non violent civil disobedience in Israel itself ie. 20 people driving their cars into tel aviv city centre, ripping out the engines and then just leaving them their or chaining people ( demonstrators) in large groups in key areas such as tourism. Or blocking key road networks with trucks or bridges. Alternatively filling the courts with vast numbers of law suits, whether in israel or suing in countries such as the usa or in europe - for anything and everything.
 
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