Bismark vs. Yamato
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I saw it last year, it is an awesome sight on a sunny day.
Sad to say I have never been on board her, I doubt if I ever will now.
Another ship I wish I had visited is the SS Great Britain, built by Isimbard Kingdom Brunel, the first ship to be built with a screw prop.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
It really makes me want to sell my kids for medical research to get the money to go visit Victory lol.
She is without a doubt one of the most beautiful ships ever to grace the seven seas.
HMS Warrior was another milestone in naval warfare, amazing.
She is without a doubt one of the most beautiful ships ever to grace the seven seas.
HMS Warrior was another milestone in naval warfare, amazing.
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Mark Conley
Active member
If you like your battleships old...try the USS Texas in Houston Texas
http://www.usstexasbb35.com/
Its the last of the old pre dreadnaught hulls...a little updated over the years.
She saw service in WWI and WWII
BTW...she really does have five 12" inch gun turrets...look after the super structure and you'll see the third one hidden.
http://www.usstexasbb35.com/
Its the last of the old pre dreadnaught hulls...a little updated over the years.
She saw service in WWI and WWII
BTW...she really does have five 12" inch gun turrets...look after the super structure and you'll see the third one hidden.
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Chukpike
Banned
From The HMS Victory website there is no indication that she still is a commissioned ship. Apparently she is in a dry dock where she has been since 1922.
USS Constitution History
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/history.htm#1794-1797
USS Constitution maybe one of the few ships in the world to sink or capture 4 British warships.:smile:
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
From The HMS Victory website there is no indication that she still is a commissioned ship. Apparently she is in a dry dock where she has been since 1922.
USS Constitution History
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/history.htm#1794-1797
USS Constitution maybe one of the few ships in the world to sink or capture 4 British warships.:smile:
I think you have misread things...
Welcome to the official website for Nelson’s flagship-HMS Victory. Best known for her role in the Battle of Trafalgar, the Victory currently has a dual role as the flagship of the Commander-in-Chief Naval Home Command and as a living museum to the Georgian navy.
This site will help you to learn about all aspects of this great ship. Find out about the men who sailed in her, how she was built and her long and continuing Naval career. You will also find useful information to help you plan a visit to HMS Victory and discover more about our special events and activities.
http://www.hms-victory.com/
http://www.hms-victory.com/
Chukpike
Banned
Did not find where the ship was still commissioned.
Well that is one way to keep a British ship in service. 110 years moored in port and 87 years in Dry Dock 2.:-D I don't think the Constitution can match the dry dock time, of course she is called "old Ironsides" for a reason.
USS Constitution History
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/history.htm#1794-1797
Of course, all the Tall Ships are pretty impressive.
On the ship I was on in the 1970's my division Chief used to look at us and then tell us, "How he longed for the days of Wooden ships and Iron men". Never could figure out what he meant.:???:
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution
HMS Victory holds the honor of being the oldest commissioned warship by three decades
USS Constitution
Launched 1797 (no date given of actual commission)
Decommissioned 1881 or 84 years in commission
50 years out of commission.
Recommissioned July 1931 to date 2009 or 78 years.
Total years in commission 162
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HMS Victory
Launched 1765
Commissioned 1778 -to date 2009.
231 years unbroken commission :smil:
HMS Victory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HMS Victory is still in commission as the flagship of the Second Sea Lord in his role as Commander in Chief of the Royal Navy's Home Command (CINCNAVHOME). ...
HMS Victory, Admiral Lord Nelson's flagship is the oldest commissioned warship in the world and is still manned by Officers and Ratings of the Royal Navy.
HMS Victory holds the honor of being the oldest commissioned warship by three decades
USS Constitution
Launched 1797 (no date given of actual commission)
Decommissioned 1881 or 84 years in commission
50 years out of commission.
Recommissioned July 1931 to date 2009 or 78 years.
Total years in commission 162
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HMS Victory
Launched 1765
Commissioned 1778 -to date 2009.
231 years unbroken commission :smil:
HMS Victory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HMS Victory is still in commission as the flagship of the Second Sea Lord in his role as Commander in Chief of the Royal Navy's Home Command (CINCNAVHOME). ...
HMS Victory, Admiral Lord Nelson's flagship is the oldest commissioned warship in the world and is still manned by Officers and Ratings of the Royal Navy.
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mmarsh
Active member
CHUKPIKE
"On the ship I was on in the 1970's my division Chief used to look at us and then tell us, "How he longed for the days of Wooden ships and Iron men". Never could figure out what he meant.[/quote]
I can help you there. The term is from the 16-17th century, the IRON MEN refers to 2 things.
First the fact that it took an especially brave man to be a sailor on a tail ship. There were many ways a sailor could die either by accident (the most common) disease, at the captains mast, or in battle. Therefore it took a very brave (men made of iron) individuals to be a sailor.
The second meaning is that during the 17 century, sailors/soldiers still wore suits of armor. This period was a lynchpin between the Medieval period and the Imperial (gunpowder) era. Therefore "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" literally refers to the sailors on board the ships that wore mail breastplates but who were serving on modern sailships.
"On the ship I was on in the 1970's my division Chief used to look at us and then tell us, "How he longed for the days of Wooden ships and Iron men". Never could figure out what he meant.[/quote]
I can help you there. The term is from the 16-17th century, the IRON MEN refers to 2 things.
First the fact that it took an especially brave man to be a sailor on a tail ship. There were many ways a sailor could die either by accident (the most common) disease, at the captains mast, or in battle. Therefore it took a very brave (men made of iron) individuals to be a sailor.
The second meaning is that during the 17 century, sailors/soldiers still wore suits of armor. This period was a lynchpin between the Medieval period and the Imperial (gunpowder) era. Therefore "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" literally refers to the sailors on board the ships that wore mail breastplates but who were serving on modern sailships.
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Chukpike
Banned
Sail Boston 2000
USS Constitution
USS Constitution
When was the last time the HMS Victory was underway on its own?
Launched on October 21, 1797, she wasn't put to sea until 1798. But, having remained part of the U.S. Navy since her launching day, USS CONSTITUTION is today the oldest commissioned warship afloat in the world.
I stand corrected the HMS Victory is the oldest commissioned ship. The USS Constitution is the oldest commissioned ship that is actually afloat.
Date launched is her official commissioning date.
Your statement that the USS Constitution was decommissioned for 50 years is completely untrue. Go to USS Constitutions Official website for the Historical timeline.
Strange you don't reference the official websites of the two ships.
USS Constitution Official site with excellent Historical time line.
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/....htm#1794-1797
HMS Victory Official site with historical time line.
http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=70
Thanks for you input, but we all new what he meant.
It was his jokingly way of telling us we didn't measure up to his "old salt" definition of the sailors he expected us to be.
We in turn refused to let on we new what he was talking about.
Interesting side note:
The USS Constitution's ships wheel once belonged to the HMS Java.
"Like HMS GUERRIERE, HMS JAVA was too badly damaged to bring home - but before he sunk her, Bainbridge had her wheel removed to replace the one shot away on USS CONSTITUTION. " quote from USS Constitutions Historical timeline on the official web site.
I think we can agree both ships have had long careers serving their countries.
While this is fun I think I owe an apology to the forums, as we have strayed off topic. Might be best to start a new topic if we wish to continue. If BritinAfrica or Monty B start it I will respond. Or the Moderators could maybe move it from where I mentioned the two ships?
Mark Conley
Active member
while we are still off topic...i couldnt resist finding this about the USS Constitution
The following is from a tale related by the Chief Curator of the National Park Service, and printed in no less an authoritative source than "Oceanographic Ships, Fore and Aft", published by the Oceanographer of the Navy. It has to do with a cruise of the 204-foot frigate USS Constitution, commonly known as Old Ironsides, in 1779. The quote:
Length of cruise -- 181 days
Booze consumption -- 2.26 gallons per MAN per day (plus whatever they rescued from the 12 English merchant ships)
Guesstimated re-enlistment rate -- 100%
Probable EPA Award of Gold Certificate for water conservation Courtesy of:
U.S. Atlantic Command
Joint Training, Analysis and Simulation Center
Now id say that pretty well describes some iron men 2.26 gallons a day? id be three sheets to the wind...
The following is from a tale related by the Chief Curator of the National Park Service, and printed in no less an authoritative source than "Oceanographic Ships, Fore and Aft", published by the Oceanographer of the Navy. It has to do with a cruise of the 204-foot frigate USS Constitution, commonly known as Old Ironsides, in 1779. The quote:
On 23 August 1779, the USS Constitution set sail from Boston loaded with 475 officers and men, 48,600 gallons of water, 74,000 cannon shot, 11,500 pounds of black powder and 79,400 gallons of rum. Her mission: to destroy and harass English shipping.
On 6 October, she made Jamaica, took on 826 pounds of flour and 68,300 gallons of rum. Three weeks later the Constitution reached the Azores, where she provisioned with 550 pounds of beef and 6,300 gallons of Portuguese wine.
On 18 November, the ship set sail for England where her crew captured and scuttled 12 English merchant vessels and took aboard their rum.
But the Constitution had run out of shot. Nevertheless, she made her way unarmed up the Firth of Clyde for a night raid. Here her landing party captured a whiskey distillery, transferred 40,000 gallons aboard and headed for home.
On 20 February 1780, the Constitution arrived in Boston with no cannon shot, no food, no powder, no rum, no whiskey. Just 48,600 gallons of water.
[SIZE=+1]Detail analysis:[/SIZE] On 6 October, she made Jamaica, took on 826 pounds of flour and 68,300 gallons of rum. Three weeks later the Constitution reached the Azores, where she provisioned with 550 pounds of beef and 6,300 gallons of Portuguese wine.
On 18 November, the ship set sail for England where her crew captured and scuttled 12 English merchant vessels and took aboard their rum.
But the Constitution had run out of shot. Nevertheless, she made her way unarmed up the Firth of Clyde for a night raid. Here her landing party captured a whiskey distillery, transferred 40,000 gallons aboard and headed for home.
On 20 February 1780, the Constitution arrived in Boston with no cannon shot, no food, no powder, no rum, no whiskey. Just 48,600 gallons of water.
Length of cruise -- 181 days
Booze consumption -- 2.26 gallons per MAN per day (plus whatever they rescued from the 12 English merchant ships)
Guesstimated re-enlistment rate -- 100%
Probable EPA Award of Gold Certificate for water conservation Courtesy of:
U.S. Atlantic Command
Joint Training, Analysis and Simulation Center
Now id say that pretty well describes some iron men 2.26 gallons a day? id be three sheets to the wind...
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
The information I gave came from :-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution
Over the next two years she continued her training cruises, but it soon became apparent that her overhaul in 1876 had been of poor quality, and she was determined to be unfit for service in 1881.[101] As funds were lacking for another overhaul, she was decommissioned, ending her days as an active duty naval ship; she would not sail again for 116 years. Moved to the Portsmouth Navy Yard sometime in 1882, she was used as a receiving ship.[101] There, she had a housing structure built over her spar deck, and her condition continued to deteriorate, with only a minimal amount of maintenance performed to keep her afloat.[133] In 1896, Massachusetts Congressman John F. Fitzgerald became aware of her condition and proposed to Congress that funds be appropriated to restore her enough to return to Boston.[134] She arrived at the Charlestown Navy Yard under tow on 21 September 1897,[135] and after her centennial celebrations in October, she lay there with an uncertain future. [1
I agree with that statement.
An intereresting aside,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victory
It is said that when Thomas Hardy was First Sea Lord, he told his wife on returning home, that he had just signed an order for Victory to be broken up. She burst into tears and sent him straight back to his office to rescind the order. Though this story may be apocryphal, the page of the duty log containing the orders for that day is missing, having been torn out.
In 1889, Victory was fitted up as a Naval School of Telegraphy. It soon became a proper Signal School, and signal ratings from ships paying off were sent to Victory instead of the barracks, for a two-month training course. The School remained on Victory until 1904, when training was transferred temporarily to HMS Hercules, and in 1906 the whole School was moved to a permanent establishment at the Chatham Royal Naval Barracks.
Victorys most famour battle was the battle of Trafalgar in 1805 when Lord Nelson split his fleet into two, to attack and defeat the combined Spanish/Franco fleet.
Victory bore many Admirals' flags after Trafalgar, and sailed on numerous expeditions, including two Baltic campaigns under Admiral Sir James Saumarez. Her active career ended on 7 November, 1812, when she was moored in Portsmouth Harbour off Gosport and used as a depot ship.
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Chukpike
Banned
116 years 1881+116 = 1997
So you agree with that statement?
First she was not decommissioned. You will also see that 116 years might be a stretch.
Take special note of 1925 and 1931-34.
[SIZE=+1]1882-1897:[/SIZE]"Old Ironsides" was laid up in New Hampshire at the Portsmouth Navy Yard, serving as a receiving ship for new recruits. A barn - like "barracks" structure was built on top of her hull.[SIZE=+1]1897:[/SIZE]September 21 - USS CONSTITUTION was moved to the Boston Navy Yard just prior to her 100th birthday. This was brought about in part due to the efforts of Massachusetts Congressman John F. Fitzgerald, grandfather of President John F. Kennedy.[SIZE=+1]1897-1900:[/SIZE]"Old Ironsides" was on exhibition at the U.S. Navy Yard, Boston.[SIZE=+1]1900:[/SIZE]February 14 - Congress authorized repairs to restore USS CONSTITUTION's hull and rigging to the condition they had been when she had been on active sea service. Adequate funding, around $100,000, was not available until 1906.[SIZE=+1]1907:[/SIZE]Limited repairs were completed, to include removing the barracks-like structure from her main deck, as well as replacing much of her rigging, spars, masts, and some other woodwork. In addition, she received some replica cannon in preparation of being opened to the public.
[SIZE=+1]1925:[/SIZE]All 25 Medal of Honor recipients from WWI were presented with their medals made from bronze salvaged from "Old Ironsides."[SIZE=+1]1925-1927:[/SIZE]A national, voluntary campaign for restoration funds was created, an initiative of Secretary of the Navy Curtis Wilbur. Numerous patriotic organizations and the nation's schoolchildren responded by contributing almost $250,000 (children donate $148,000, much of it in pennies, while the U.S. Navy, Marine and Coast Guard personnel donate $31,000). [SIZE=+1]1927:[/SIZE]The movie "Old Ironsides" staring Wallace Beery, Charles Farrell, George Bancroft and Esther Ralston is released.[SIZE=+1]1927:[/SIZE]June 16 - USS CONSTITUTION was docked, for an extensive reconstruction, in Boston's Drydock No. 1. The same drydock she was the first to enter ninety-four years before.[SIZE=+1]1927-1930:[/SIZE]During the extensive restoration effort, considerable decayed timber was replaced and the interior of the hull was given extensive additional support. The ship was restored to approximately resemble her appearance during the 1850s. New replica guns are installed, far more accurate replications than those done in 1907.[SIZE=+1]1930:[/SIZE]March 15 - "Old Ironsides" was floated out of drydock, her repairs nearly completed. The total cost of this restoration approximates $987,000.[SIZE=+1]1931:[/SIZE]July 2 - USS CONSTITUTION left Boston for the first time in over thirty years for a goodwill tour of ports on the New England coast. Due to her overwhelming popularity, she then embarked on a similar tour to include all coastal states.[SIZE=+1]1931-1932:[/SIZE]President Herbert Hoover becomes the last sitting president to come aboard "Old Ironsides."[SIZE=+1]1931-1934:[/SIZE]Under Commander Louis J. Gulliver, "Old Ironsides" traveled 22,000 miles, visited 90 ports, and welcomed more than 4.6 million visitors. (Over two million in California alone.) The tour took her as far north as Bar Harbor, ME, on the east coast, and Bellingham, WA, on the west coast and as far south as the Panama Canal. She was towed by the minesweeper USS GREBE and, occasionally, by the submarine tender USS BUSHNELL.
Source:
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/
Click on History
You did not answer my question as to when was the last time the HMS Victory was in the ocean?
For the comprehensive HMS Victory Hisory go to:
http://www.hms-victory.com/
Click on HMS Victory at top
Click on History Service Life.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I am not sure what the one up-manship is all about both the HMS Victory and the USS Constitution are commisioned ships but neither of them are going to see action again so in essence they are both icons of their age and little more.
I would be inclined to say the both ships have significant meaning to their respective nations and leave it at that.
I would be inclined to say the both ships have significant meaning to their respective nations and leave it at that.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
According to the Constitutions own web site :-1997:
1997 July 21 - USS CONSTITUTION sailed under her own power, not under tow, for the first time in 116 years. Their words not mine.
Victory was also in operation by the Royal Navy from 1889 until 1904 as a Signal School while still afloat. The school was moved to that year. She remained at her moorings, where she deteriorated.
A campaign to save her was started in 1921 with the Save the Victory Fund under the aegis of the Society for Nautical Research, by which time she was in very poor condition. The outcome of the campaign was that the British Government agreed to restore and preserve her to commemorate Nelson, the Battle of Trafalgar and the Royal Navy's supremacy that existed for some time before during and after the Napoleonic period.
On 12 January 1922 she was moved into the oldest drydock in the world: No. 2 dock at Portsmouth for restoration. Therefore she was continuoulsy afloat for 144 years, and in commission for 231 years.
Personally I would love to see Victory made ready for sea again, it would simply prove too expensive
As Monty stated, "I am not sure what the one up-manship is all about both the HMS Victory and the USS Constitution are commisioned ships but neither of them are going to see action again so in essence they are both icons of their age and little more."
I too, really don't know what this one upmanship crap proves. I could carry on with this, but its pointless. Victory as I correctly stated originally IS the oldest Warship still in commission, dry dock or not.
The statement I agreed with was Originally Posted by Chukpike View Post
I think we can agree both ships have had long careers serving their countries.
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Chukpike
Banned
So, why did you start it in the first place?
Quote BritianAfrica;
"As funds were lacking for another overhaul, she was decommissioned, ending her days as an active duty naval ship; she would not sail again for 116 years."
It would have been a lot more enjoyable if you had gone to the official web sites in the first place, and learned about both ships.
Mark Conley
Active member
seems to me that certain partys just dont like to be seen or said they are wrong with their posts...im just as guilty of this too!
heres to picky-bitching peoples...:cheers: