Bismark vs. Yamato

TexasHighlander

TexasHighlander

Active member
I know they never met on the high seas, but who do you think would win in a ship vs ship engagement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Yammatto was a bigger ship with bigger guns with a longer range, and the Japanese sailors were very good at what they did. Now if the Yammatto stood out of Bismark's range and just dealt with Bismark until it had been badly damaged then closed in for the kill, then it would be the Yannatto that would have won. Still you never know how the captain would have fought the battle
 
I would say it could have been the bizmark over the yamato. 18 inch guns, and even a secondary battery with a slightly long reach doesnt indicate the smaller things...like a slow reload time for the yamato's main guns (40 seconds according to some sites), and supposadly 18 inch ammo that had a "slow" bursting time (indicates defective shells? i dont know). i believe both ships would have had a fairly decent battle...right up to the time the bizmark would have been with in primary gun range...and the yamato with in secondary range.

at least both had no radar that i have been able to detect that would have been worth a darn. it truly would have been a battle between the best eyes, and fastest gunners.
 
TexasHighlander said:
I know they never met on the high seas, but who do you think would win in a ship vs ship engagement.
Click to expand...

What a lot of people forget is this. The Japanese navy was second only to the Royal Navy in ships in the 30's. And though the Americans, Italians and even the French had large fleets, their maritime prowess was no where near that of the Japanese and British at that time.

The Bismarck was a quality battleship, but compared to the Yamato it was incredibly outgunned.

The Japanese sailors were very adept at what they did and they would have destroyed the Bismarck before the pride of the Kriegsmarine got close enough to use her guns

Winner: Yamato
 
I will go with a draw but lean toward the Bismarck, my belief is that given most battles were fought at around 20000 yards and any hits outside that range would have been pure luck the benefits of the Yamato's big guns are negated.

Overall I think this one comes down to who hits first.

One bright spot in all this for the Bismarck is the flatter trajectory of her guns which would have allowed for faster reporting of her shots and thus increased the over all fire rate, coupled with her predictor fire control system could have proved decisive.

Damage control, the Bismarcks DC was far better than the Yamato primarily due to an incredibly bad layout (narrow corridors, small hatches etc). In fact DC on Japanese ships was awful throughout the war.

Range I don't think was an issue as the Bismarck was faster and therefore could have closed on the Yamato rendering primary battery range advantage minimal at best.

I also do not consider armour a huge deal as non-penetrating hits from a large caliber gun or bomb will do enough damage to a ships systems to cripple it (Take the Prince of Wales, the bomb that crippled it did not penetrate it but it did enough damage to take out the hydraulics to the AA turrets).

So over all while the Yamato has several major advantages going into the the battle any degradation of fighting ability on the Yamato pretty much negates them.
 
MontyB said:
I also do not consider armour a huge deal as non-penetrating hits from a large caliber gun or bomb will do enough damage to a ships systems to cripple it (Take the Prince of Wales, the bomb that crippled it did not penetrate it but it did enough damage to take out the hydraulics to the AA turrets).
Click to expand...

Actually the Bismark had several major flaws, one of which is particularly relevant to this discussion. The ship was completed with some of her vitals above her armoured belt. This particular weakness left many communication systems, including her main damage control centre and foretop fire control director, open to destruction which contributed to her relatively rapid silencing in her final engagement.

I have the rate of fire of the Yamato's 46cm gun down at only one round per 90secs, although the Yamato was even more limited for practical logistical reasons.

Both these ships make it into Antony Preston's book of 'The World's worst Warships'. Seems to me to be a hypothetical battle between two overrated dinosaurs. In a practical fleet battle with an air arm, the Bismark would have been mincemeat to any bombs which impact on the deck or torpedo's hitting the weak stern, either which would have rendered her largely ineffective
 
Last edited:
This is why I said that the first hit would probably be decisive and I tend to think that the ship with the best capability of hitting first is the Bismarck.
 
I am going to say YAMATO by far.

Bigger guns 18" vs 15"
Much Better Armour 410mm Armor vs 130mm
Superb Night Fighting capabilities.

Better Trained Crew. Japan had more experience in surface engagements. That's not to knock the Germans, but in ship to ship combat the Japanese were second only the the Royal Navy. And their navy was RN trained. If you look at IJN is was much closer to the RN than anyone else.

Bismark only advantage was speed, and it was only 2 knots faster.

Remember Bismark was intended as a commerce raider (less firepower, armor, more speed) while Yamato was a true battlewagon. Bismark got hammered by modern British warships which easily penetrated her armor, knocking out her main armament.
 
Another defect of the Bismark was the shells. Those that hit the Price of Wales failed to detonate properly. (Sorry ObjSRgtLw)
 
what is a h class battleship, and who wanted to build it? i have heard of montana class, and sich...but h-class?:sleep:
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
come on guys... some voices FOR Bismarck please ;)
Click to expand...

Hey I would be happy to vote for the Bismarck, I tend to think that people are pushing the Yamato because of its size but I think that both the fire and damage control systems on the Bismarck were far superior to the Yamato so short of a "lucky" shot by the Japanese from long range the fight comes down to who hits first and to the Bismarck is the most likely to do that.

All this of course would change if we start talking air support but ship on ship I am giving the Germans a 1-0 win.

For some reason I feel people over rate the IJN, I can't think of one single engagement where they actually stayed a slugged it out in almost every case they charged in fired a few shots and promptly turned tail (Failure to launch 3ed and 4th waves at Pearl Harbor, the Taffy 3 incident), now I accept the Kriegsmarine never really showed much potential with its surface fleet either but when cornered they did at least stand and fight usually against horrible odds though.
 
Last edited:
MontyB said:
I also do not consider armour a huge deal as non-penetrating hits from a large caliber gun or bomb will do enough damage to a ships systems to cripple it (Take the Prince of Wales, the bomb that crippled it did not penetrate it but it did enough damage to take out the hydraulics to the AA turrets).
Click to expand...

HMS Hood blew up because a shell from Bismark penetrated her deck armour and exploded in one of the magazines. She should have been refitted with heavier deck armour but operational and goodwill cruises kept her out of the dockyards.

Many years ago a co worker of mine was aboard HMS Ajax during the Battle of the River Plate. He stated that his most vivid memory of the battle was steaming full ahead to get into range with their 6 inch guns while Graf Spee's 11 inch shell's were hitting the water around them. He also stated that he often had nightmares and woke up in the middle of the night bathed in sweat.

Sadly, a few years later I learned he had died from cancer.

MontyB said:
For some reason I feel people over rate the IJN, I can't think of one single engagement where they actually stayed a slugged it out in almost every case they charged in fired a few shots and promptly turned tail (Failure to launch 3ed and 4th waves at Pearl Harbor, the Taffy 3 incident), now I accept the Kriegsmarine never really showed much potential with its surface fleet either but when cornered they did at least stand and fight usually against horrible odds though.
Click to expand...

Battle of Tsushima
The Japanese engaged the Russian fleet in the Tsushima Straits on 27 May–28 May 1905. The Russian fleet was virtually annihilated, losing eight battleships, numerous smaller vessels, and more than 5,000 men, while the Japanese lost three torpedo boats and 117 men. Only three Russian vessels escaped to Vladivostok. After the Battle of Tsushima, the Japanese army occupied the entire Sakhalin Islands chain to force the Russians to sue for peace
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top