Best tank of WWII?

[Doppleganger]

Maciste.....Did the French Tanks actually fight in any major Battle during WW2

Yes they did. Their tanks were a fair bit slower, better armored and better armed than their German counterparts (the Panzers I,II,III,IV) during the 40 day German pummelling of France. Germany had this novel idea: Mass the tanks and use them to cut the enemy line in half, aka Blitzkrieg. France went with a more traditional role for their tanks: disperse them evenly as a support weapon for the infantry, effectively negating their most useful function of being able to move quickly in battle. The BEF and France had more total tanks than Germany, but because they were not correctly used, they lost. You'll never hear much praise thrown at them. Germany invaded France and the Lower Countries outnumbered in every category but one: they had slightly more combat aircraft.

It's absolutely true to say that had Germany used 'traditional' tank tactics they would have lost the Battle of France. Beforehand, the French army was considered by many to be the best army in the world and the German army fighting them in the traditional way would have lost and lost badly. But they didn't and like Alexander, Attila and Subotai before them novel, daring leaders like Guderian used new tactics and new technologies to hand the French Army its most crushing defeat in centuries.

 

[panzer]

Maciste.....Did the French Tanks actually fight in any major Battle during WW2

Yes they did. Their tanks were a fair bit slower, better armored and better armed than their German counterparts (the Panzers I,II,III,IV) during the 40 day German pummelling of France. Germany had this novel idea: Mass the tanks and use them to cut the enemy line in half, aka Blitzkrieg. France went with a more traditional role for their tanks: disperse them evenly as a support weapon for the infantry, effectively negating their most useful function of being able to move quickly in battle. The BEF and France had more total tanks than Germany, but because they were not correctly used, they lost. You'll never hear much praise thrown at them. Germany invaded France and the Lower Countries outnumbered in every category but one: they had slightly more combat aircraft.

Good point and very correct sir, during the battle of France whenever French tanks ran into German counterparts the French were almost always outnumbered because they put there armour units as support for the infantry. Insane they would not pay any attention to the works of Liddell-Hart or Guderian but oh well.

 

[Wham-size]

well i think the best tank of world war 2 was the panzer iv as it was in produce before and till the end of the war. it was upgun and had more armour as time what on and could take on all of the allied tank in the war.
the fact is most sherman were lost to fire from pazer iv then any other tanks. and not many tanker of the day saw a phanter or tiger. same goes with the t34 most were knock out buy panzer iv and anti tank guns and it a testment to the design of the tankthat it was able to be upgun and kept fight all the war
no other westen tank can say that. and the t34 for russia was design after the panzer iv and was only used after as it was produce in such numbers.
that why the panzer iv the bested[/img]

 

[EuropeanAmerican]

Well.. I would say Panzer IV... and I would also say the Sherman was a disgrace.

 

[bigcanada813]

I would have to agree with EuropeanAmerican. The Panzer IV was a tough nut to crack, and even the crews of Shermans called their tanks coffins.

 

[LeEnfield]

Now I am not saying the Churchill was a great tank, but it did have some fine points and did help to win a number of battles and I think its part in WW2 often gets overlooked. The Churchill had fantastic ability to climb the steepest of hills that would stop other tanks, in Tunisia it shocked the Germans by attacking them up a side of the mountain that they thought would be impossible for a tank to operate on. It would take for more punishment than Sherman and still not catch on fire, and it fought right into Germany and was loved by it's crews, an upgraded version of this tank that went under the name of The Black Prince also fought in Korea.
The Churchill got some bad press when it got stranded on the shingle beaches at Dieppe, but I doubt that any other tank would have fared any better. This was one of the reason the Britain brought out a special tankl for D Day that would lay a artificial road over the beaches to allow the tanks to get of the beaches with getting bogged down.

 

[Charge 7]

Maciste.....Did the French Tanks actually fight in any major Battle during WW2

Yes they did. Their tanks were a fair bit slower, better armored and better armed than their German counterparts (the Panzers I,II,III,IV) during the 40 day German pummelling of France. Germany had this novel idea: Mass the tanks and use them to cut the enemy line in half, aka Blitzkrieg. France went with a more traditional role for their tanks: disperse them evenly as a support weapon for the infantry, effectively negating their most useful function of being able to move quickly in battle. The BEF and France had more total tanks than Germany, but because they were not correctly used, they lost. You'll never hear much praise thrown at them. Germany invaded France and the Lower Countries outnumbered in every category but one: they had slightly more combat aircraft.

Good point and very correct sir, during the battle of France whenever French tanks ran into German counterparts the French were almost always outnumbered because they put there armour units as support for the infantry. Insane they would not pay any attention to the works of Liddell-Hart or Guderian but oh well.

Not to mention their own Charles de Gaulle. Many may not now remember, but de Gaulle was a colonel in the French tank corps and was a leading advocate before the war of "blitzkreig" type tactics.

Oh and LeEnfield, yes the French tanks fought quite well in WWII - as the Free French anyway. General LeClerc had a very fine armored force and it was his tanks that moved into Paris first (at Eisenhower's command). Of course, they were British and American sponsored at that point.

As for Dieppe, well, victory at Normandy would not have been achieved without the lessons learned at Dieppe. Those men gave us far more than most and should be remembered for it. It was an intentional learning thrust. Trouble was we learned more than we bargined for. Dieppe was as important to ultimate victory as any battle the allies fought in WWII.

 

[sven hassell]

Panther!,nothing more needs to be said.

 

[localgrizzly]

Uhhhh,

If I remember correctly, the guys with the Tigers and Panthers really got their arse kicked real bad by the guys with the Shermans and T-34s.

 

[Doppleganger]

Uhhhh,

If I remember correctly, the guys with the Tigers and Panthers really got their arse kicked real bad by the guys with the Shermans and T-34s.

Many thanks for that enlightening addition to this discussion.

 

[Obvious]

The Best Tank depends on what you want, for instance, if you want a small army with quality, then go with the Tger tank, if you want cheap and massproduction tank, then go with the t34

 

[Wheezcellbert]

The T-34 Had a longer service record then the most and it went against the best the germans had to throw against it. This tank was awesome. It had a very good hit/kill ratio and kill/death ratio. After this tank appeared the Germans were scared shitless of it and were amazed to see their rounds bounce off of it. This tank was also very innovative in technology with its slanted armor. This tank turned the tide in the East.

 

[Doppleganger]

The T-34 Had a longer service record then the most and it went against the best the germans had to throw against it. This tank was awesome. It had a very good hit/kill ratio and kill/death ratio. After this tank appeared the Germans were scared shitless of it and were amazed to see their rounds bounce off of it. This tank was also very innovative in technology with its slanted armor. This tank turned the tide in the East.

It didn't turn the tide but you're right, the Germans got a huge shock when their lead Panzer units first encountered the T-34 in July 1941. It is one of the most influential tank designs of all time but I actually think the best Soviet tank of WW2 was the IS-2/IS-3 heavy tank. I still think the Panther Ausf G is the best overall tank of WW2. It was the German T-34 in a sense.

 

[Wham-size]

well i think the best tank is still the panzer IV g it was able to take on nearly all tank that includes the IS-2/IS-3 and win it had a lot for it it was reliable cos it design was done before the war it was tested for a long time and most faults were found a sovled.
when it was give the long 7.5cm L/48 gun it could outrange most allied tanks.
it had good armour protection with was upgrade as time what one like the metal skirt add to set of heat round and then being paint with anti magnetic paint to stop soviet anti teams put limp mine on it.
it speed was good and use not a lot of fuel when run it.
most allied crew that thought the saw a tiger normal saw a panzer IV
and in engagement most what up againest the panzer IV
that why i think the panzer IV is the bested ww2 tank

 

[godofthunder9010]

Uhhhh,

If I remember correctly, the guys with the Tigers and Panthers really got their arse kicked real bad by the guys with the Shermans and T-34s.

Of the Sherman, the Germans often said: "A Tiger can kill 10 Sherman's, but unfortunately they always have an 11th." I've heard several variations on the same statement, but this is interesting because that was very close to the actual kill ratio on BOTH fronts, and all the praise to the T-34's design doesn't change the numbers. The Germans made better tanks and/or had better tank crews (probably a combination of both), but the Allies had massively overwhelming numbers. 11 tanks against one, who do you think will win?? Tank production by the UK+USA and the USSR both vastly outpaced the Germans, and fighting tank battles with those kinds of odds against you was not an uncommon thing.

BTW, noticed that the Sherman Firefly was listed for the poll. That particular version of the Sherman saw so close to nothing of WW2 battlefields that it can hardly qualify. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[Wham-size]

BTW, noticed that the Sherman Firefly was listed for the poll. That particular version of the Sherman saw so close to nothing of WW2 battlefields that it can hardly qualify. Just thought I'd point that out.

well may i point this out that it was used a lot but it in so few numbers
as you soon now it was a upgrade that the britsh did to the sherman and got a good gun put in to the sherman problem britsh industry in prices cos of 4 years of fighting so only limit number were able to be mod to this spec.
if the britsh army had there way and they could have they would have had everone of there sherman with the nice 17ponder in it far better then any US army anti gun. it could take out a tiger and tiger II name a other allied tank that could do that from the frontal armour you can't not ever a t-34/85 could unless it was very close.
so the bristh army did what they could they put every 4 tank in a there army as a firefly and they other three if done right were used to destract the german tank for it to let the firefly to get in to place.
so don't slag of the firefly it was about the only good sherman around
but still i think if german had just stuck with panzer IV and replcement part for damage tank they would have come of better.
it been said if thay had they would have made some thing like 20000 of them is stand of 8000 and most proably many sp versons.

 

[Doppleganger]

well i think the best tank is still the panzer IV g it was able to take on nearly all tank that includes the IS-2/IS-3 and win it had a lot for it it was reliable cos it design was done before the war it was tested for a long time and most faults were found a sovled.
when it was give the long 7.5cm L/48 gun it could outrange most allied tanks.
it had good armour protection with was upgrade as time what one like the metal skirt add to set of heat round and then being paint with anti magnetic paint to stop soviet anti teams put limp mine on it.
it speed was good and use not a lot of fuel when run it.
most allied crew that thought the saw a tiger normal saw a panzer IV
and in engagement most what up againest the panzer IV
that why i think the panzer IV is the bested ww2 tank

Guderian, when he became Inspector-General of Armoured Troops in 1943, wanted to halt production of ALL tanks except the Panzer IV, for many of the reasons you stated. However, he was directly overruled by Hitler. So your argument holds some weight.

 

[Wheezcellbert]

The main reason why the tank has my vote is because not only did it have a huge fear factor rating it was also able to be mass produced by the Russians. It was just an awesome tank. When the tank first came out the Germans tried numerous times to try and steal one to make their own varient of it, thats how fearful they were of it.

 

[Wham-size]

When the tank first came out the Germans tried numerous times to try and steal one to make their own varient of it, thats how fearful they were of it.

they did steal it design and inprove on it in many ways it was the panther this tank is close to being the best ww2 tank but i say it not for the lack of them one thing to point out sevel countrys after the war produce the the panther as there main tank for some years includeing the french.
The german on there part did make some very good imporvement on the t-34. like move the turret back to make it more stable.
the used better sloping the the russian. and the gun was far better then the russian one ever the 8.5cm one in later models of t-34.
one of the thing that came from the disign was a the use of the 7.5cmL/70 gun and the turret used was well sloped.
there was a plan to mad a improved version of the panzer IV with the panther turret they were going to wide the body a like and make in long by add one more bogie wheel to it. they did make some prototypes and it seem to make a vast inprovement on a good disign it was going to start to go in to produce in the 1945 but it was stop when all panzer IV tank were sto that the chassis could be used for sp guns.

 

[godofthunder9010]

The greatest evidence that the Panzer IV was not the greatest tank of WW2 is probably the German response to encountering the T34 on the battlefield. This does not change that fact that it was the most successful and dominant tank design of the war, but that must be creditted to Blitzkrieg tactics more than anything else.

As far as I'm aware, Michael Whitman is the foremost Tank Ace of WW2, and his tank was initially a Panzer IV but later it was Tiger I (up till he was killed in battle). Just an interesting fact, but since the Tiger I can't qualify for this poll, it makes little difference.