Are We Winning the "War on Terror"?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
But this is precisely what makes them less of a threat, sure they are all of one religion but it is a very fractured religion. Lets face it when there is no one else to shoot at they are shooting at each other.
senojekips
Active member
You are right on the money there Monty, in an earlier post on a similar thread I suggested that maybe it would be far cheaper and easier to contain them and just wait for the middle east to self destruct internally.
We could in essence conduct a guerilla war against them from without, and the easiest and cheapest way of achieving that would be to stay right out of it, only becoming involved if it were necessary to remove any possible stabilising influences.
This would completely turn the tables on them, using their policies and methods to bring them down.
It would not be popular with a lot of world opinion, but that is already the case with our present methods so we would have little to lose.
I'd like to see if it would work.
MORE OF OUR HOME-GROWN LOVELY CHAPS!
OSAMA BIN LONDON, at your service.
The self-styled ‘Osama Bin London’ was yesterday accused of organizing training camps for terrorists in Britain, including the failed Jul 21 suicide bombers. He was involved in the radicalization of Muslim youths for 2 years. His associate Ahmet, admitted three charges of plotting to encourage others to commit murder.
The sayings of “Osama Bin London” as he told the police to call him, who boasted he was‘No 1 Al Qaeda in Europe’:-
‘six or seven atrocities before the 2012 Olympics.’
‘the magnificent 15 – the 9/11 USA bombers’.
‘die for your belief in Allah and enter paradise.’
‘Democracy is the number one enemy of Islam’.
‘The July 7 killings of 52 people in London was not even a breakfast to me.’
At his arrest with 5 others, police seized extremist material including CDs and DVDs of murders, beheadings and suicide bombings.
He told his followers to strike like Jack the Ripper and never get caught.
OSAMA BIN LONDON, at your service.
The self-styled ‘Osama Bin London’ was yesterday accused of organizing training camps for terrorists in Britain, including the failed Jul 21 suicide bombers. He was involved in the radicalization of Muslim youths for 2 years. His associate Ahmet, admitted three charges of plotting to encourage others to commit murder.
The sayings of “Osama Bin London” as he told the police to call him, who boasted he was‘No 1 Al Qaeda in Europe’:-
‘six or seven atrocities before the 2012 Olympics.’
‘the magnificent 15 – the 9/11 USA bombers’.
‘die for your belief in Allah and enter paradise.’
‘Democracy is the number one enemy of Islam’.
‘The July 7 killings of 52 people in London was not even a breakfast to me.’
At his arrest with 5 others, police seized extremist material including CDs and DVDs of murders, beheadings and suicide bombings.
He told his followers to strike like Jack the Ripper and never get caught.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Yep and there is no doubt he is a good candidate for a lead lobotomy but I think it worth noting that it was the police that arrested him not the army. The so called "war on terror" is something that needs to be waged at home by our respective police forces and through education.
Yes - that's true, and it seems our police/security etc. have been doing fantastically well and have prevented a number of serious attempts. What I don't know is how much assistance is intelligence based and provided by USA amongst others. I know that Europe has been helpful. Our police warning is that they won't be able to stop every one. It may surprise you to know that I have great confidence in the job they are doing. But I guess that is not quite the same as winning here, yet.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think the majority of western nations in general have been very successful at counter terrorism and I have to admit to being a fan of the French when it comes to legislation on these matters but to be fair they have had a lot more experience at these things than most others.
As far as not being able to stop every attack well thats just a fact of life, you can't stop people committing crime in general so it is unrealistic to expect them to be able to stop every terrorist attack.
I really do think people need to rethink the whole winning and losing idea when it comes to terrorism as I believe you can only have winners and losers on individual attacks essentially if you stop an attack its a win and if you don't its a loss but to create a term such as "The war on terror" that is so nebulous that it cannot possibly be won as it will never have an end.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
But you can't just fight it at home. This is the problem. Because if you do, you're giving a chunk of the world for them to be free to roam around in. They will again set up camps as they did in Afghanistan prior to America's counter attack and with the time, resources and less pressure, strike at high priority targets in the West.
They will attack, REGARDLESS of presence in the middle east or whatnot because there are many powerful figures out there who's sole means to power is hatred and a Holy War against the US and European countries.
Just before 9/11, American troops were protecting Muslims in the former Yugoslavia and in 1993 were trying to get food and medical supplies to Muslims in Somalia. But they attacked anyway.
This is something that needs to be fought at both home and abroad.
They will attack, REGARDLESS of presence in the middle east or whatnot because there are many powerful figures out there who's sole means to power is hatred and a Holy War against the US and European countries.
Just before 9/11, American troops were protecting Muslims in the former Yugoslavia and in 1993 were trying to get food and medical supplies to Muslims in Somalia. But they attacked anyway.
This is something that needs to be fought at both home and abroad.
Missileer
Active member
If the suicidal/homicidal mindset is allowed to thrive by the world leaders, there will be one holocaust after another until smaller, disarmed countries are under complete control of theocracies. Most of the world is at peace and has been for many years so the need for a strong military has not been an issue of any urgency. Even the "battle ready" have not realized how dedicated the new enemy is to domination through cruelty. I consider the word "terrorism" to be inadequate so I use the more appropriate "cruelty" as a descriptor of the method of war that is and will be favored by the enemy.
America is fortunate in that our population is the most heavily armed of any on earth and is only subject to contained targets of opportuniny on a small, localized scale. To combat an enemy that has slowly become a large portion of a country's population, only the minuteman approach will work.
America has long been derided as "the world's policemen" and troublemakers. The same countries that used those words have, over the course of history, called us "liberators" and "peacemakers." This war could be a whole different, global problem and the very concept of freedom could change. No amount of diplomacy can trump ingrained fanaticism that has existed for thousands of years.
This time, the destruction will be more along the lines of wholesale slaughter of entire civilizations, the wounded and weak will be put to the sword.
America is fortunate in that our population is the most heavily armed of any on earth and is only subject to contained targets of opportuniny on a small, localized scale. To combat an enemy that has slowly become a large portion of a country's population, only the minuteman approach will work.
America has long been derided as "the world's policemen" and troublemakers. The same countries that used those words have, over the course of history, called us "liberators" and "peacemakers." This war could be a whole different, global problem and the very concept of freedom could change. No amount of diplomacy can trump ingrained fanaticism that has existed for thousands of years.
This time, the destruction will be more along the lines of wholesale slaughter of entire civilizations, the wounded and weak will be put to the sword.
senojekips
Active member
For some peculiar reason, policemen the world over are treated by many as the bogeyman, I don't know why this is.
As you say, many countries owe the USA a huge debt of gratitude. Yes, at times there have been errors of judgement, and in some instances possible self interest, but no worse than many decisions made by us all as individuals at various times. After all Governments are made of people and people are not perfect. (Present company excluded).
Absolutely right Seno. As indeed are the 2 previous posts, to which I will respond later.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
The difference being that the President of the United States of America represents me personaly on the World Stage, and acts in my name, so, bad action on his part affects me personally in the eyes of the World.
Also, if I unintentionally cause the death of another human, I could be charged with manslaughter.
Yet the President can kill many humans recklessly and he is given a pass. Seeing how President Bush has killed thousands in my name, I do not believe he should be given a pass on the matter.
And, as of this time the President of the United States of America is prohibited by law from acting as the World Police Officer if the United States Military is to be used for such.
Missileer
Active member
And the hits just keep on coming.:cheers:
senojekips
Active member
This may well be true Gator, but it has been the habit of heads of state to act against the wishes of large parts of their constituency and other countries since time immemorial.
In most politically stable countries this usually results in him being voted out of office. As for "punishment", well the victors write the rules, but I am yet to see a previous head of state charged with dereliction of duty or any similar thing. I believe this is not because there is little or no chance of succeeding in such an action, but the fact that the incumbent head of state knows that one day he may be in the same position.
In the mean time, I guess we just have to get on with it and do the best we can with what we've got.
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major liability
Active member
The War on Terror is just a catchphrase to keep us feeding the military-industrial complex and fighting pointless battles in countries that have nothing to do with us. It cannot be won.
I think they should just use reprisals. Soon as they find out where the terrorist is from, his hometown and family becomes a glassy crater in the desert. See if their Allah is worth it. If he is, increase the power of each strike threefold until they either get the point or there are none left to reproduce. Fight terror with absolute terror - make them fear the noise of any aircraft and force them to wonder if it is about to vaporize them.
I think they should just use reprisals. Soon as they find out where the terrorist is from, his hometown and family becomes a glassy crater in the desert. See if their Allah is worth it. If he is, increase the power of each strike threefold until they either get the point or there are none left to reproduce. Fight terror with absolute terror - make them fear the noise of any aircraft and force them to wonder if it is about to vaporize them.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
If President Bush was a Democrat and acted as he has done, well, he would most lilkely already have been Impeached and Removed from Office by the Republicans, but, he is a Republican, so he gets to stay in Office, it is just how Republicans are in the United States of America as a general rule.
Which is why I believe the Nation is moving away from the Republican Party.
I look for the Republican Party in America today to go the way of the Whigs, which was strangely enough the predecessor of the Republican Party.
I believe History will record that President Bush did not win any War while in Office, and in fact made matters much worse Militarily because of his actions while in Office.
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senojekips
Active member
On this point I must admit that I am not a close follower of US politics, and really don't know much about the parties involved other than their most basic Ideologies. i feel that it would be very unwise of me to make too much of the policies of one or the other as I would end up being shot down in flames, so I must stick to what I see her and now and comment on those things that are happening at this moment.
I realise that many US citizens are unhappy with the policies of the present administration mainly concerning matters relating to the "War on Terrror" and in particular the war in Iraq.
My knowledge other than that which I read in the papers is based mainly on a TV show that I saw explaining the origins and rise of the Neo Conservative movement in the US. I must admit that if true (and I believe that it is) they have a lot to answer for, to the point of possibly being charged with Crimes against Humanity. I know this will never happen but that is no reason why I should not have an opinion on the matter.
I think you have a valid point here, but of course that is merely my opinion. This all falls into the plans of the Neo Cons.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
But doesn't say more about the resolve of the Democrats than the Republicans?
I agree (although not so much about military-industrial complex bit) it can't be won because it has no defined end point, realistically to end this "war" there has to an end to terrorism and there is about as much chance of that as there is of me becoming pope.
No it doesn't what changes is affiliation of the complainants.
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