FULLMETALJACKET
MilForum Bad Apple
wow. i never read about this stuff before. good posts.
Anti-Japanese Print Advertisements in China
CABAL
Active member
I apologize for the mispelling. However my comment is definetily not a jest. This is serious.
Please use your common sense. Japan's reaction to the rise of India is different.
1. Japan does not border near India
2. No major terroritial disputes
3. Does not contest over natural resources
4. Does not argue over historical facts of World War II
5. And like Japan, India also mistrusts China because of China's Military alliance with Pakistan and the Indo-Chinese border conflicts during the mid 60's.
Problems within the Sino-Japanese relations:
1. There are disputes over historical facts
2. Unresolved border disputes in regards to soveriegn rights
3. the so-called "Economic Zone" which China does not recognize
4. There are oil rigs China constructed along the "Economic Zone" which Japan protested as "Illegal"
5. The Taiwan Issue also contributed to the tensions in this region
6. Both nations are engaged in major miltary excercises
7. Increase military activity are reported from both nations
8. Diplomatic relations have taken a serious nose dive since PM Koizumi visited the War Shrine
9. Problems are also demonstrated in High level exchanges. During the last APEC Summit, Chinese Premiere Wen Jiaboa intentionally ignored PM Koizumi's presence in the meetings.
Please soley focus on the political situation in East Asia, where most of this problem is deeply rooted during the Age of Imperialism during the mid 19th Century.
The Nanjing massacre have been accumulated by personal accounts, photos, and evidence. Are you implying that this incident have been a fabrication of the "Chinese Communists" or "the biased media reportings"?
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System Bolaget
Active member
sandy said:
Sandy, First and foremost, I thought better of it and deleted my post only a minute after posting it so I am not childishly provoking you. I do believe that you made that map to spread false propoganda about China because right after I began questioning you about it the map link went bad and you stopped posting in the thread. you have to admit, that is questionable at best. I think this is perfectly reasonable, and quite frankly I think that you are a troll. You seem to like calling out the Chinese and feeding the West's mistrust of them due to their not understanding. I have noticed that the Chinese who are here on the boards have a little bit of trouble explaining what they are talking about due to a lack of proficiency in English. I have decided to step in and you don't like it.
I understand a Westerner maybe being standoffish about the Chinese, but you are so close that this is, to me, unexcuseable. I do not need to read your book because half of my family is Chinese by marriage. I have intimate knowledge of that culture, it traditions and have first hand witness to what is going on there economically. I have listened to people cry as they tell of what happened when the Japanese heathen forces were there. My wife has nightmares about it because of all of the stories that she heard from friends and relatives growing up. I will not have you or anyone else trivialize those events period. This is not an attack or anythig personal Sandy. it's just the way I see it.
What you and your contemporaries probably realize is that China will put an end to Japanese economic domination of the Pacific rim. As you sit there praying for them to fail they are moving ever faster towards that. They are embracing the West and they will NEVER forget what the Japanese did to them. Never. The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons in Japan, but not in the inhumane and disgusting and humiliating way it was done in China. It will be economic and it will be without malice. They already do everything better and cheaper and faster than the Japanese. As for the U.s., our new economy thrives on competition. having the great Chinese machine pumping their goods into the world market fuels it ever forward. Our unemployment is lower than it's been in years. We have tons of new millionaires over here. And you know what? Everybody wants to learn Mandarin now. Not Japanese. We know of the collective fortunes that are being made in China. Wait until Beijing 2008, Sandy. Hell, you and I ought to meet there for a beer. I'll buy.
godofthunder9010
Active member
System Bolognet, I hope you are right about the future. I sincerely hope and pray that the Chinese will be satisfied with surpassing the Japanese economically. But there is a lot of hateful propaganda all across China and its going to lend itself to violence even if this is not what the PRC's government intends. For instance, the Japanese Olympians will have to be extremely watchful for Chinese citizens ready and willing to mug/hurt/kill/maim anyone Japanese.
To his credit, Sandy has been more openminded and willing to admit Japanese wrongdoings in WW2 than I would have expected.
To his credit, Sandy has been more openminded and willing to admit Japanese wrongdoings in WW2 than I would have expected.
System Bolaget
Active member
godofthunder9010 said:
Well, While I can understand some Chinese feeling the way they do, I don't think they would act on their impulses because they all realize just how important the Olympics are for China and the world. They'll bark about it, but no self-respecting Chinese would do anything to dampen China's rising star. they are all connected very deeply on this level and those who are not keep in the background. Remember, socially they are still Communist and Big Brother is still watching. :wink:
I guess I can cut him some slck and go along with that.
China has refused the Nanjing survey.
Even,American's scholar also joins the investigation in the investigation
member.
I welcome the joining of American's scholar to the investigation.
I am only requesting an objective investigation for the Nanjing by famous scholer.
However, I am not denying it.
for a example
The corpse that put on Mao Zedong suits had come out when the scholar in
Japan investigated in Nanjing.
Even,American's scholar also joins the investigation in the investigation
member.
I welcome the joining of American's scholar to the investigation.
I am only requesting an objective investigation for the Nanjing by famous scholer.
However, I am not denying it.
for a example
The corpse that put on Mao Zedong suits had come out when the scholar in
Japan investigated in Nanjing.
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godofthunder9010
Active member
Exactly my point from earlier. Both Japan and China have tended to be extremely dishonest in their reporting of numbers and incidents, etc. Neither has proven to be anymore credible than the other in my book. Japan is still deliberately honoring known and proven war criminals at numerous of their War Memorials and have begun rewriting historical facts. For instance, at a school in Japan a student will likely learn all about how Japan's only intentions in invading China, Korea, Manchuria and the Phillipines were: 1.) To expel Western Imperialists from Southeast Asia. 2.) To lend a kind and helping hand to their neighboring countries. Neither was a major intended purpose on Japan's part.
China has tended to provide questionable numbers. For the brief period while the KMT was still in control of mainland China, I still don't completely trust the numbers. They were given somewhat to corruption themselves, afterall. The PRC has proven to be entirely unreliable. If they are to be believed, only a handful of people died at Tianamen Square, China took about the same casualties in the Korean War as the forces they fought against and there countless cases of creative reporting of "facts." The PRC has a sortof hit or miss tendency with its accuracy. They now admit that the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were essentially counterproductive and killed millions of innocent people, for instance.
Personally, I feel that Japan needs to take a very frank and honest look through the numerous Official Documents that seem to keep popping up and contradicting the official Japanese line. A frank and honest dialogue with China would go a long ways towards defusing tensions. Otherwise, Japan and China have managed to lock themselves into the same sort of "Tit for Tat," back and forth scenario that Europe only recently mananged to pull themselves out of.
Example: Napoleon defeats Prussia (Germany), embarrassing them. Later, Bismarck defeats France and annexes the disputed region of Alsace Lorraine into the newly formed Germany. Germany is defeated in World War I, so France takes back Alsace Lorraine. The also completely humiliate the German people, demanding German disarmament and forcing Germany to accept French occupation of the Rhineland, and also forcing them to write off enormous chunks of territory on their Eastern border. In World War II, Germany retakes what it lost at Versailles, takes and occupies France, but is ultimately defeated. Somewhere shortly after WW2, the two nations finally notice that they are trapped in an unending cycle and manage to break it (with the help of a common threat in the Soviet Union.) In the end, millions died for the sake of a grand scale grudge match. This is exactly the direction that Japan and China are pointed at.
China has tended to provide questionable numbers. For the brief period while the KMT was still in control of mainland China, I still don't completely trust the numbers. They were given somewhat to corruption themselves, afterall. The PRC has proven to be entirely unreliable. If they are to be believed, only a handful of people died at Tianamen Square, China took about the same casualties in the Korean War as the forces they fought against and there countless cases of creative reporting of "facts." The PRC has a sortof hit or miss tendency with its accuracy. They now admit that the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were essentially counterproductive and killed millions of innocent people, for instance.
Personally, I feel that Japan needs to take a very frank and honest look through the numerous Official Documents that seem to keep popping up and contradicting the official Japanese line. A frank and honest dialogue with China would go a long ways towards defusing tensions. Otherwise, Japan and China have managed to lock themselves into the same sort of "Tit for Tat," back and forth scenario that Europe only recently mananged to pull themselves out of.
Example: Napoleon defeats Prussia (Germany), embarrassing them. Later, Bismarck defeats France and annexes the disputed region of Alsace Lorraine into the newly formed Germany. Germany is defeated in World War I, so France takes back Alsace Lorraine. The also completely humiliate the German people, demanding German disarmament and forcing Germany to accept French occupation of the Rhineland, and also forcing them to write off enormous chunks of territory on their Eastern border. In World War II, Germany retakes what it lost at Versailles, takes and occupies France, but is ultimately defeated. Somewhere shortly after WW2, the two nations finally notice that they are trapped in an unending cycle and manage to break it (with the help of a common threat in the Soviet Union.) In the end, millions died for the sake of a grand scale grudge match. This is exactly the direction that Japan and China are pointed at.
CABAL
Active member
There is nothing to be surprised of. I do intensive studying on the Second World War, interviewing various people who lived in this era and the younger people of different nationalities how they view the war.
Godofthunder9010, I was about to elaborate on this further. But thank you for doing so.
Godofthunder9010, I was about to elaborate on this further. But thank you for doing so.
LeEnfield
Active member
I think if the Japanese just said what they did in China was wrong instead of blaming other people for what happened or even denying it ever happened, then the Chinese would not be having a go at them. Lets face it the Germans have admitted that what they did in the death camps was wrong and spend a lot of time reminding their youth of the mistakes of a previous generations. This has allowed people to have closure on the matter and move on, and this does not mean that they have forgotten what had happened. The Japanese blame America for Pearl Harbour as they would not sell them war materials to carry on attacking China and every one else, they wont admit that their troops acted wrongly to prisoners, they wont admit that they used them as slaves in their factories in Japan, they wont admit about death camps they had in China were the experimented on prisoners with all sorts of germs. Why was this bit kept quite, well America agreed to take no action against the people that ran the camp as long as all the details of their work was passed on to them. I wonder why they took such a different attitude to the Japanese who did this than the Germans who they insisted where hanged.
Japan apologizes in that regard, and three trillion yen has already been financed.LeEnfield said:
History textbook of China.
The Prime Minister of Japan visited China and the diplomatic relation of the two countries was connected in 1972.
That,s all.
My wanting to say is this.
The figure of 1.5 million people is figures that chinese national
party was meaning in 1945.
Moreover, there are a lot of things without evidence as for the insistence of China.
There is not a photograph that can be testified, and either it is understood that all were pretenders.
http://www.geocities.jp/saveeastturk/eng.html
On the contrary, Japan has not complained.
Don,t you know"Agreement of the journalist exchange between Japan and China".?
This agreement was concluded in 1964.
Detail
The newspaper is not hostile to China.
The newspaper is not added Taiwan and independently.
The newspaper doesn't disturb normalization of Sino-Japanese relations.
When the newspaper doesn't observe an agreement, they are driven out by China.
As a result, the newspaper of Japan had written only the good thing for China.
Don,t you know such a basic thing?
Neither the description nor the apology concerning ODA of Japan have been described in the textbook of China.
Moreover, China has enumerated the following countries as a territory
that was deprived now.
1Kazakstan, Kirgiz, and Tadzhikistan
2Nepal, Sikkim, Assam, and Bhutan
Burma and Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore, and Indo-China
federation
3Taiwan, Okinawa, and Korea
4Cabaft, maritime Provinces, and Khabarovsk
The age of imperialism has already passed.
Do you think that this insistence is a thing by the right wing in Japan?
To our regret, these insistences are being performed by Taiwanese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko_Bunyu
His insistence is quite adequate.
Therefore, I am pro-taiwan.
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CABAL
Active member
www.geocities.jp
Your sources are complete utter garbage. The allegations you posted are from Japanese extremists, xeno-phobes, and supremecists. Therefore you must be one.
And how about the books he written? Lets see....
Mr. Sandy, are you aware of the Nazis book called the "Mein Kampff" written by Adolf Hitler? I do hope so.
Mr. Ko and Hitler, between these two men I see no difference.
His allegations ARE NOT ADEQUATE. And I DID NOT RECIEVE THE INSISTIENCE OF CHINA AS GOD'S REPORTING.
LEAVE GOD OUT OF THIS!
Your sources are complete utter garbage. The allegations you posted are from Japanese extremists, xeno-phobes, and supremecists. Therefore you must be one.
And how about the books he written? Lets see....
Mr. Sandy, are you aware of the Nazis book called the "Mein Kampff" written by Adolf Hitler? I do hope so.
Mr. Ko and Hitler, between these two men I see no difference.
His allegations ARE NOT ADEQUATE. And I DID NOT RECIEVE THE INSISTIENCE OF CHINA AS GOD'S REPORTING.
LEAVE GOD OUT OF THIS!
It is a cruel misunderstanding.
Have you ever read his book, and then, why can you say that he is the same as Hitler?
It is taboo to compare and criticize someone to hitler in Europe.
Have you ever read Mein Kampf?
I read. Of course, I am not his believer.
The research is a purpose to read mein kampf.
There is no common feature at all when it is made to say from the conclusion.
He is a scholar of, and comparing him with Hitler is wrong.
But you say,Hitler was a student!Hitler was a human!Hitler was a child!
He and Hitler are the same and? you and I are also same.
You and Ⅰ were scholer.You and I were child.You and I are human.
and his book,
China
Reckless driving of anti-Japanese history education
It is China that looks like Nazis.
The insufficient one is only Hitler.
From their word.
Japan is a capitalist who rapaciously, and the United States is fasist.
Next, you should leave out insult to ko-bunyu.
Have you ever read his book, and then, why can you say that he is the same as Hitler?
It is taboo to compare and criticize someone to hitler in Europe.
Have you ever read Mein Kampf?
I read. Of course, I am not his believer.
The research is a purpose to read mein kampf.
There is no common feature at all when it is made to say from the conclusion.
He is a scholar of, and comparing him with Hitler is wrong.
But you say,Hitler was a student!Hitler was a human!Hitler was a child!
He and Hitler are the same and? you and I are also same.
You and Ⅰ were scholer.You and I were child.You and I are human.
and his book,
China
Reckless driving of anti-Japanese history education
It is China that looks like Nazis.
The insufficient one is only Hitler.
From their word.
Japan is a capitalist who rapaciously, and the United States is fasist.
OK Ⅰ left out that word.
Next, you should leave out insult to ko-bunyu.
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SwordFish_13
Active member
Hi,
After World War Japan had Done many things For China , It's Just that it's Not highlighted by the Media .
China Loves to hate Japan ........... Average Chinese Dosen't Know how Mush Loan and Funda has Japan Given to China After World War 2.
Peace
-=SF_13=-
After World War Japan had Done many things For China , It's Just that it's Not highlighted by the Media .
China Loves to hate Japan ........... Average Chinese Dosen't Know how Mush Loan and Funda has Japan Given to China After World War 2.
Peace
-=SF_13=-