FULLMETALJACKET
MilForum Bad Apple
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Also lefties please post here!:cowb:
Also lefties please post here!:cowb:
American Politics
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Forrest_Gump
Active member
If you strip all the other BS away, at the end of the day, its all about the Benjamin's.
Welshwarrior
Banned
:-D I blame the politicians for all the politics
FULLMETALJACKET
MilForum Bad Apple
Yes, Any Person from Any Country. what are your opinions on American politics?:lol:
At this point I see Americans foreign policy as:
Expansionistic, over protective of national interests, uncaring of the point of view of others, agressive, hypocrite, serving short term immidiate revenu's, short-sighted, trying to spread a variant of peace that not everybody is waiting for. (But to honest also bold and daring, pragmatic and truely committed.)
Before you set the dog on me, let me refine my view a bit. I see most politics in this respect. For the Dutch I would say; hypocrite, uncaring, serving short term and cunning. That is because we can't afford to send our military all over the world, otherwise we probably would.
Before (2) you are offended please note that I say foreign policy. The years that I have spent living in the States convinced me that one should differentiate between the American Joe & Jane and America's policies. I seldom met more hospitality, warmth and good natured spirits as overthere. Please take this into account before you raze me to the ground!
Expansionistic, over protective of national interests, uncaring of the point of view of others, agressive, hypocrite, serving short term immidiate revenu's, short-sighted, trying to spread a variant of peace that not everybody is waiting for. (But to honest also bold and daring, pragmatic and truely committed.)
Before you set the dog on me, let me refine my view a bit. I see most politics in this respect. For the Dutch I would say; hypocrite, uncaring, serving short term and cunning. That is because we can't afford to send our military all over the world, otherwise we probably would.
Before (2) you are offended please note that I say foreign policy. The years that I have spent living in the States convinced me that one should differentiate between the American Joe & Jane and America's policies. I seldom met more hospitality, warmth and good natured spirits as overthere. Please take this into account before you raze me to the ground!
localgrizzly
Active member
Ted,
I don't knw your personal politics, ao I must guess based on your posts.
It has been my experience over many years, of which I lived in England for one year and Germany for two, that most of the Europeans I met were very liberal, even to the point of socialism.. Those that I knew approved of American policy when our country was led by far left wing activists like Carter and Clinton, but literally despised us when we elected presidents who were not committed to socialism.
IMHO, that seems to be the situation today. I honestly believe that if Al Gore had been elected, he would have invaded Iraq, just as Bush did, but he would have had strong support among the people and governments, of Europe and the U.K., because of his commitment to far left causes like welfare statism, socialism and the U.N..
Am I correct in these assumptipons, and if not, why not?
I don't knw your personal politics, ao I must guess based on your posts.
It has been my experience over many years, of which I lived in England for one year and Germany for two, that most of the Europeans I met were very liberal, even to the point of socialism.. Those that I knew approved of American policy when our country was led by far left wing activists like Carter and Clinton, but literally despised us when we elected presidents who were not committed to socialism.
IMHO, that seems to be the situation today. I honestly believe that if Al Gore had been elected, he would have invaded Iraq, just as Bush did, but he would have had strong support among the people and governments, of Europe and the U.K., because of his commitment to far left causes like welfare statism, socialism and the U.N..
Am I correct in these assumptipons, and if not, why not?
ray:Well Localgrizzly, you might be right. The consensus overhere (for as far as I know) is that a large section would hold different opinions if we thought the US would take us serious.
Many of us had inhibitions about going to war and needed some time to think this over. If Bush would have given us some time, it would have been a different tune. No it was: be with us or against.... if you are with us, here is the time table.
If he would have taken us and our "wishes" serious there would have been a whole different ball-game. And when things went sour the US asked for the support of the same people he, so uncouthly, brushed aside! Clinton and maybe Gore after him, was a man who made us feel like our opinion cared. We probably would have followed him anywhere. That isn't being left wing, that is what I call political intellect.
Of course the above is based on what I have heard and read, but isn't for the entire population of Holland. But the meanstream (can you believe it that I am actually meanstream overhere) opinion might be pretty close...
Many of us had inhibitions about going to war and needed some time to think this over. If Bush would have given us some time, it would have been a different tune. No it was: be with us or against.... if you are with us, here is the time table.
If he would have taken us and our "wishes" serious there would have been a whole different ball-game. And when things went sour the US asked for the support of the same people he, so uncouthly, brushed aside! Clinton and maybe Gore after him, was a man who made us feel like our opinion cared. We probably would have followed him anywhere. That isn't being left wing, that is what I call political intellect.
Of course the above is based on what I have heard and read, but isn't for the entire population of Holland. But the meanstream (can you believe it that I am actually meanstream overhere) opinion might be pretty close...
Missileer
Active member
Ted,
I don't want to sound like I'm agreeing with all you say, but you're right about the effect of the Democrat to Republican transition on most of Europe. Not only was foreign policy changing but administration style was almost totally opposite between the two parties. After the culture shock was beginning to sink in that Bush was similar to Reagan and JFK in their handling of threats to our Country, 9-11 happened. Something like that hardens your desire for revenge, and time to move was considered to be critical in pulling together a counter strike. We didn't have the luxury of forming a coalition like the first war with Iraq. Junk intel and screams from a frightened populace gave the President the extra push to hit quickly and with vengence. "W" is a totally different man than his Father and not the best of communicators. As far as ignoring the opinions of European countries, I don't think the administration did that at all, there just wasn't time to pull everything together for a roundtable discussion. It's similar to old west gunfighters, there's a time to talk and a time to draw, your chances are better if you draw first.
I also think that President Bush is taking all this on himself and dealing with it using more inner strength than I could muster. He's being strafed by the press, both domestic and foreign, the opposition party, and now, former allies. Just my opinion. At this point, I think America and Europe would do well to mend fences and get ready to face the next phase of this war because it's inevitable. But demonstrating and calling names is never good in bad times.
I don't want to sound like I'm agreeing with all you say, but you're right about the effect of the Democrat to Republican transition on most of Europe. Not only was foreign policy changing but administration style was almost totally opposite between the two parties. After the culture shock was beginning to sink in that Bush was similar to Reagan and JFK in their handling of threats to our Country, 9-11 happened. Something like that hardens your desire for revenge, and time to move was considered to be critical in pulling together a counter strike. We didn't have the luxury of forming a coalition like the first war with Iraq. Junk intel and screams from a frightened populace gave the President the extra push to hit quickly and with vengence. "W" is a totally different man than his Father and not the best of communicators. As far as ignoring the opinions of European countries, I don't think the administration did that at all, there just wasn't time to pull everything together for a roundtable discussion. It's similar to old west gunfighters, there's a time to talk and a time to draw, your chances are better if you draw first.
I also think that President Bush is taking all this on himself and dealing with it using more inner strength than I could muster. He's being strafed by the press, both domestic and foreign, the opposition party, and now, former allies. Just my opinion. At this point, I think America and Europe would do well to mend fences and get ready to face the next phase of this war because it's inevitable. But demonstrating and calling names is never good in bad times.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
Ted said:
I agree, this thread is too broad. FMJ, please post another thread that has a defined subject
Doody
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