A study of home invasions from the University of South Africa

And where on earth did I say that laws on paper did ANYTHING? I only said that if we lifted those laws (thus ceasing enforcement) it would be absolute and total anarchy. Laws (and the enforcement of them, which falls under the same category) may not completely halter criminal activity, but it DOES reduce it.


I feel like a broken record......
 
And where on earth did I say that laws on paper did ANYTHING? I only said that if we lifted those laws (thus ceasing enforcement) it would be absolute and total anarchy. Laws (and the enforcement of them, which falls under the same category) may not completely halter criminal activity, but it DOES reduce it.


I feel like a broken record......
Laws are simular to the Police, they deter, but can't really stop crimes from occuring.
 
Question my intelligence now? Oh you of no world experiance? I'm questionin your Delta Foxtrot Comparison of reducing criminal laws to gun control and gun restrictions. As well as your Delta Foxtrot opinion that words on paper reduce anything. Enforcement of those words is what matters. Crime will never stop and enacting more laws won't stop anything.

This is true.
You should check out Indonesian roads. They have lines on them but rarely do people know what it means. There's the thick one in the middle which separates the direction but everything else is pretty much for decoration. In fact, I remember quite a few roads just didn't bother with any sort of marking.
It's just not enforced.


Laws are for most of us, generally a reminder about what's right and what's wrong. For others, it doesn't have much of an effect.
If rape were legal, would you do it?
 
The only good "gun control" Laws are actually crime control Laws that don't infring on the Rights of law abiding Citizens, such as Laws that give armed perps extra time for being armed. "BritainAfrica" Machine guns aren't banned "except under extreme circumstances in the US." Anyone who can legally own guns can own machine guns, there is onerous paperwork burden, a Tax & a huge price caused by the ending of machine gun production for the civilian market causing supply/demand problems.

I did know that selective fire small arms were available legally in the US provided the owners goes through all manner of paperwork. The US must be one of the few (only?) countries in the world that allows its citizens to do so. Now the point is, how many crimes are carried out with those weapons in legal hands? I'd hazard a guess and say "None."

Given the chance I'd move to the US tomorrow, the only problem would be sitting in a house with no furniture but loads of selective fire LMG's, SMG's and rifles all over the place lol.
 
I did know that selective fire small arms were available legally in the US provided the owners goes through all manner of paperwork. The US must be one of the few (only?) countries in the world that allows its citizens to do so. Now the point is, how many crimes are carried out with those weapons in legal hands? I'd hazard a guess and say "None."

Given the chance I'd move to the US tomorrow, the only problem would be sitting in a house with no furniture but loads of selective fire LMG's, SMG's and rifles all over the place lol.
Zero is the answer! I wish I'd invested in Tommy Guns & BARs a decade or so back!
 
Zero is the answer! I wish I'd invested in Tommy Guns & BARs a decade or so back!
You probably would have had to invest in them more like 50 years ago. Ignored by anti gun people is the fact that a good percentage of the automatic weapons available in the US are Dewats. Deactivated War Trophies.
Modern US made fully automatic weapons would probably have to be smuggled into the US and would still be illegal to own.

Common methods for deactivation was welding the breech closed. Not necessarily done professionally. They may look good on display but totally useless.

The current claim that US made automatic weapons are being smuggled into Mexico from the US by drug cartels is b******t. Why would they need too? Prices would be cheaper from South America.

What makes more sense.
US made auto weapons reaching the drug cartels from the US at very high prices if they can be found.

Or, US made auto weapons stolen from South American countries the US government sold them too.
 
You probably would have had to invest in them more like 50 years ago. Ignored by anti gun people is the fact that a good percentage of the automatic weapons available in the US are Dewats. Deactivated War Trophies.
Modern US made fully automatic weapons would probably have to be smuggled into the US and would still be illegal to own.

Common methods for deactivation was welding the breech closed. Not necessarily done professionally. They may look good on display but totally useless.

The current claim that US made automatic weapons are being smuggled into Mexico from the US by drug cartels is b******t. Why would they need too? Prices would be cheaper from South America.

What makes more sense.
US made auto weapons reaching the drug cartels from the US at very high prices if they can be found.

Or, US made auto weapons stolen from South American countries the US government sold them too.
they come from Colombia, El Salvador, Ect., left overs from the past. If you can smuggle drugs, you can smuggle guns. There are a lot of DEWATS, but new made full autos were available untill banned in mid 80s. Another tactic of the antis, if you can't ban possesion, make it too expensive for the poor folks, same angle on the so called "Saturday Night Special".
 
I did know that selective fire small arms were available legally in the US provided the owners goes through all manner of paperwork. The US must be one of the few (only?) countries in the world that allows its citizens to do so. Now the point is, how many crimes are carried out with those weapons in legal hands? I'd hazard a guess and say "None."

Given the chance I'd move to the US tomorrow, the only problem would be sitting in a house with no furniture but loads of selective fire LMG's, SMG's and rifles all over the place lol.

Since the 1934 when the National Firearms Act was passed which restricts and taxes the ownership of machine guns..... only two legally owned machine guns have been used in the commission of a crime.

TWO LEGALLY OWNED MACHINE GUNS.

That's it....... every other crime that used a machine gun was with an illegal weapon. And yet the NFA is a major piece of federal law that heavily restricts the ownership of machine guns..... weapons that on average cost the law abiding citizen over $10,000 US.

Why the high price? Because any machine gun made after 1986 cannot be sold to civilians. So it's a finite supply...... A 1985 M16 goes for $15,000.... a current production M16 goes for $1,000.

What's the difference? One is legal for you or I and the other is only legal to the government or it's Jack Booted Thugs....

Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry - Thomas Jefferson

The National Firearms Act was an attempt to out price machine guns from civilian ownership. $200 in 1934 was a lot of cash...... the 1980s caught up and they simply outlawed the sell/transfer/ownership of machine made after a certain date. They still have to follow the Grandfather Clause.

But the State of New Jersey found a way around that with they State Assault Weapon Ban. They didn't outlaw the firearm. They outlawed the ownership by writing the law in a way that possessing the weapon within the state was the actual crime. It was written is the same way as the 1930s drug laws.

In the end.... Thomas Jefferson was correct. It is wrong for the State to have common fielded weapons of the infantry soldier while you and I (the militia) cannot have access to the same class of common weapons used by our soldiers.

The Militia and the 2nd Amendment was created to prevent what is happening in our nation to be happening. The militia was check for balancing the power that the State holds and the 2nd Amendment it the teeth for the militia to enforce that balance.
 
Sorry... Do you really feel the United States is in need of a violent revolution of the working class?


(BTW, that's straight out of Marx's mouth, that whole revolution bit)
 
If you want to get technical... Almost half of gun crimes are committed with a legally purchased weapon. The straw purchase tactic is a heavy favorite in the black market world, in which the guns are legally purchased, and then sold to illegal buyers.

http://www.hartfordinfo.org/issues/documents/crime/htfd_courant_071606.asp

You really need to do more reseach. LISA LABELLA and RON PINCIARO who contributed to that article are rabid anti gun tree hugging liberals, who's research is suspect at best.

They are both members of Connecticut Against Gun Violence who last year lost a legal battle.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/co..._ruling_seen_as_having_little_effect_in_conn/

By Stephanie Reitz

Associated Press Writer / June 26, 2008
HARTFORD, Conn.—New England's prominent gun makers said Thursday's landmark Supreme Court ruling that affirms the right to keep guns at home for self-defense is a moral victory for their beleaguered industry and law-abiding gun owners.



The 5-4 ruling affirms gun ownership at home as an individual right for self-defense. It overturned a 32-year-old ban in the District of Columbia, letting governments continue to set rules for gun ownership but striking down outright prohibitions.

The court had not conclusively interpreted the Second Amendment since its ratification in 1791.

"It really is a good day. This is just incredible," said Carlton Chen, a vice president and general counsel at Colt's Manufacturing Co. in West Hartford, where the 500-plus employees all received copies the court's decision Thursday.

"We've had so many attacks by anti-gun groups and laws that prevented law-abiding people from keeping guns and using them responsibly," Chen said. "We're elated -- we now have the grounds to challenge a number of these unfair laws."

Both Colt's and Massachusetts-based Smith & Wesson -- which relies on the commercial market for 75 percent of its sales -- say they are happy the ruling's language seems so unequivocal.

"What we've experienced in the past is that everyone, depending on their feelings about the whole gun debate, had their opinion of what that is ... this really does now, very clearly, grant the right to law-abiding citizens who qualify to own a firearm," said Paul Pluff, a spokesman for Springfield-based Smith & Wesson.

Messages were left Thursday for Fairfield-based Sturm Ruger & Co. Inc.
The basic issue for the Supreme Court justices was whether the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to own guns no matter what, or whether that right is somehow tied to service in a state militia.
Connecticut's constitution already refers to gun ownership as an individual right. State officials said Thursday they expect few changes, if any, as a result of the high court ruling.

In Massachusetts, however, a 1976 Supreme Judicial Court ruling describes gun ownership as "related to the common defense," wording which might be called into question by the new Supreme Court ruling, said James Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners Action League in Northboro, Mass.

"It's going to take some time to digest this," Wallace said of the lengthy court decision. "I'm very happy that it was written so clearly. Now the argument will be who gets to own a gun and who doesn't get to own a gun."

The ruling came as no surprise even to gun-control groups throughout the region.

"It clearly was a political decision based on the way the court is situated right now," said Ron Pinciaro, a director of Connecticut Against Gun Violence.
 
So because YOU think they're "rabid anti gun tree hugging liberals" (punctuation is your friend) that means their research isn't credible?


Real great way to break the right wing, closed minded stereotype... "Anyone who doesn't fit my views is obviously wrong and insane, so I don't even have to listen to them."

:roll:
 
So because YOU think they're "rabid anti gun tree hugging liberals" (punctuation is your friend) that means their research isn't credible?


Real great way to break the right wing, closed minded stereotype... "Anyone who doesn't fit my views is obviously wrong and insane, so I don't even have to listen to them."

:roll:
To quote the television show Mythbusters, "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Did it ever cross your mind, BritinAfrica, that perhaps the reason they're members of Connecticut Against Gun Violence is because of their studies?
 
I have kept right out of this debate until now because of "where" the study was done.

I think that the findings are totally out of order for "civilised" countries. I love guns, but,....
 
To quote the television show Mythbusters, "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Did it ever cross your mind, BritinAfrica, that perhaps the reason they're members of Connecticut Against Gun Violence is because of their studies?

Unlike you and your little buddy Henderson, I have carried out a LOT of research into gun control and the effects thereof.

That so called piece of research carried out by Connecticut Against Gun Violence is typical of the anti gun brigade. They stated that almost half of the illegal pool in the hands of criminals started out as firearms owned by legal owners.

Gun Free South Africa and the South African Police tried the same tactic, stating that "most" firearms in criminal hands started out as legally held firearms. Both statements are absolute "bollocks."

Research by a political party has "proven" that in South Africa that over 98% of illegal firearms were stolen from the state. Since 2001 28,000 firearms were stolen from or sold by members of the South African Police. Thats fact. In one month alone (to the end of March this year) 981 firearms handed into the Police by members of the public "vanished" into thin air, gone. I personally know of three 9mm parablellum pistols handed into the police for destruction were used months after being handed in, in a gang murder. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

One thing I and others have noticed with the so called research by the anti gun brigade, they use a lot of sound bites, such as "many" "a lot of" "most," they NEVER come up with exact stats, facts or figures.

Another little gem Gun Free South Africa come up with, "If you have a gun, you are 7 times likely to get shot with your own gun." Now read that a few times and see if that statement makes sense. 7 times more likely then what, Being hit by a bus, being struck by lightning, being hit by a nuke?

Where did Connecticut Against Gun Violence do their research as to their statement "Almost half" and by whom? They do not quote any because they do NOT have any hard evidence.

Quite frankly, neither you or your little buddy Henderson have a clue as to what you are talking about.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top