A new method of capital punishment?

Ted said:
Wake up friend, if the death penalty was so deterring it wouldn't be necessary anymore. The fact that we are having this discussion means only one thing: it doens't work!
Click to expand...

Just to clear up this point, the death penalty does deter re-offending and that is the point to it, I am not a "prisons are for rehabilitation" kind of guy we lock people up as a method of punishment and to remove them from society that is all.

perseus said:
The point of this thread was not to discuss the merits of capital punishment, but to establish a cheap, humane and reliable means of death perhaps for prisoner's who prefer that sentence. Indeed for others who have good reasons to commit suicide such as incurable chronic pain.

Surely it isn't rocket science to kill someone painlessly, why all the difficulty finding veins and such nonsense? Why does there need to be three injections administered automatically? It seems like a sledge hammer to crack a nut if you forgive the inference!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8291373.stm
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the 3 injections thing was done to provide a sense of escapism for the executioner, one of the biggest concerns in executions is not with the comfort of the condemned but with the mental well being of the of the guy flicking the switch.
 
If you want it painless, just put them in a pressure chamber and slowly let out the oxygen. Not in one go; just slowly. The convict will become tired, go to sleep and never wake up.
MontyB said:
Just to clear up this point, the death penalty does deter re-offending and that is the point to it, I am not a "prisons are for rehabilitation" kind of guy we lock people up as a method of punishment and to remove them from society that is all.
Click to expand...
But what is the purpose of punishment? Does it mean you want to put them away, leave them be and set them out again. You know for sure that he will do "it" again. I am under the impression that punishment is a means to change someone behaviour. So at one point in time the offender has to have his learning-moment. And the time he is doing in a correctional center is perfect for learning new things... If he gets it he'll change is ways, if not, them you punish him again when he does something again.
 
But at some point you reach the end of the learning curve and in terms of punishment it would be at the point that society has decided to lock you up and throw away the key, after that point it doesn't matter how much you learn or how you change your life as you become nothing more than a burden to the law abiding.

It is at that point I firmly believe that the death penalty should become automatic and it shouldn't matter whether you raped, murdered or crossed against the lights as you will never be anything more than a massive waste of state funds which would be far better off spent on education, health or in taxpayers pockets.
 
THIS MAY SOUND SICK OR UNREALISTIC BUT Y DONT YOU STRAPP THEM TO EXPLOSIVES IN A MANNER THAT DOSENT ALLOW THEM TO REMOVE IT PLACE THEM IN A DESERT WITH A TIMER WHILST SEDATED
IF U R GUNNA GO U MAY ASWELL GO IN STYLE.....

OR NOT

IM NOT IN FAVOR OF THE DEATH PENALTY IMAGINE THE PUNISHMENT OF SOME ONE BEING LOCKED AWAY ALONE IN THEiR CELL FOREVER
 
But what about my oxygen idea MontyB, that must be pretty humane :)

And I am not always opposed to the death penalty. I remember the case of Jeffrey Dahmer. He killed quit a few kids, cut them up and ate them. When he was on trail he said he'd do it again if he had the chance. In this case removing him from society seems the only option.
 
So whats the advantage of oxygen depressurisation over a simple nitrogen cylinder & mask? In the former case you need a large chamber capable of withstanding 14.4 ibs/sq inch, a vaccum pump, controlled flow evacuation and an large oxygen supply. The process would also be slower and more complicated since you need to purge nitrogen from the blood to avoid the bends. Not sure if it would be painless either.
 
Christ Perseus, you sure know how to rain on someone's parade. I thought I had it all figured out. A nice furnished room, a bit of music (they can choose) and a farewell beer (again their choosing). Slowly the room is emptied of oxygen and he starts to feel a bit light-headed and sleepy. No rush, no anxiety etc. He lays down, goes to sleep and dies... What a nice way to go.
And you certainly don't want him to have the bends! The mask thing kinda freaks you out... I know I'd freak out the moment you get the mask on and you know it is time to die. As you see; I am a humanist.
 
OK you can release nitrogen in a non pressurised room although you would probably need a whole cylinder and an evacuation fan. People get killed accidentaly through nitrogen (and argon) leaks in a similar way because they really don't know about it, they just pass out. That's what makes large scale nitrogen leaks dangerous in enclosed spaces, ironically because its not poisionous and so the body doesn't react and send out the alarm signals.

Interestingly you would get the same effect venting a hydrogen fuelled car exhaust back into the compartment (only H20 and N2 is exhausted to any extent). A catalyst gasoline fuelled car would emit the same compounds with a CO2 scrubber attached, perhaps a caustic soda, soda lime or quicklime canister.

Hope I'm not giving people ideas.
 
Last edited:
Why kill? I forget the father's name down in Texas that was executed, and then shortly after it turned out that he was innocent after all. That's really good. Taking away from an innocent person what you simply cannot give back- their life. How brave! And he died because of incompetent investigators. There's "Dallas CSI" for ya.

So, why kill? I say labor camps. And it's beneficial to everyone involved. The prisoner doesn't die. The prison makes money from his product. In the end the prisoner sucks less tax dollars from us, thus becoming self-sufficient. Yeah, yeah. I know. There is always the chance that the innocent will be imprisoned solely as a labor source. Hey, it's like that already with the mental health facilities. They pick people up off the street, declare them mentally ill, then hold them until their insurance is emptied.

And no 03, I'm not going to research it for ya, you can Google like the rest of us!
 
Some pointers:

1) If you put them to work, you'll eventually find that their punishment isn't much of a punishment at all. Most regular people in the world work and live under far worse conditions. Putting these guys through utter hell will bring a law suit, sympathy and eventually a whole load of them will get compensation and walk free.

2) I think there should be a newer and more surefire way of deciding what is an open and shut case.

3) "Give them another chance" my ass. Many of their victims never had a second chance. Why should we waste money on these guys' rehab? Seriously, any life sentence that is completely without doubt really ought to be an automatic death. I'm with MontyB here.

4) "It doesn't work" is a stupid excuse when you're talking about the odd case where it didn't work out. If that's the logic you'll follow, I suppose school doesn't work because schools will always produce some level of idiots who never learned a thing. I suppose all seatbelts should be considered failures because sometimes it is the cause of death in crashes. You get the idea. Punishment doesn't work? Yes it does. Drug dealing carries the death sentence in Malaysia and Singapore. And it is enforced. They have a far smaller drug problem than countries that cry for sympathy and rehab.

What's up with the firing squad idea? I say chuck them over a cliff and save the bullet.
Or do what the North Koreans do: use them as live practice.
 
Most regular people in the world work and live under far worse conditions
Click to expand...

Do they? I thought the worst jobs go to illegal immigrants. If these jobs were replaced with prison labor perhaps there would be less incentive for them to come over. Quite a few end up picking fruit and vegatables because the locals won't do it. There's always plenty of places to clean, graffiti to cover etc.

If they end up being given a decent job then it creates a number of problems

Ironically, the largest stumbling block for prison-labour advocates does not come from civil-rights advocates, but private corporations. Many companies cite the lack of Constitutional protection to smaller-sized businesses, who are going bankrupt because larger-sized businesses are "unfairly" able to utilize the cost-saving potential of prison employment, including free rent, subsidized housing, state-covered medical costs, low wages, and, of course, freedom from providing vacation days. During the 1920s and 1930s, labour unions protested that inmate-workers owned by the state prison system constituted unfair competition, highlighting cheap labour costs and low wages (Culp 2005).
Click to expand...

http://www.insideprison.com/prison-industry-labor.asp
 
Last edited:
What should we do when people are executed, and then found innocent?
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

Look the other way? Is it worth it? Is it worth taking the life of someone because they were thought to be guilty when they really weren't? "Oppps! My bad!"?

Or is it really manslaughter or even murder? What makes the state any better than the criminals they house when they can stomach taking the life of someone, but then finds they were innocent all along?

Or is this all in the name of "justice"?
 
perseus said:
Do they? I thought the worst jobs go to illegal immigrants. If these jobs were replaced with prison labor perhaps there would be less incentive for them to come over. Quite a few end up picking fruit and vegatables because the locals won't do it. There's always plenty of places to clean, graffiti to cover etc.

If they end up being given a decent job then it creates a number of problems



http://www.insideprison.com/prison-industry-labor.asp
Click to expand...

I was referring to laborers across the globe not in our home countries.
You want some guy who killed off three kids cleaning grafitti? Fine.
 
I guess you could divide prisoners into various groups.

Those who have committed horrendous crimes who are deemed incurable and unmanageable for which the death penalty might be considered as a humane solution

Those which impose a severe danger to themselves and others in prison and impose high internal costs. These should be given the option of euthanasia, perhaps irrespective of the crime as the quality of life for everyone is low.

Extremely dangerous criminals who are potentially curable. These should be restricted to work inside the prisons

Criminals who are generally non-violent but may have committed a serious crime in a rage and are facing a long sentence. Perhaps these could be given the chance to redeem themselves through engaging in a high risk venture, perhaps in the military, or rescue service, undercover police work.

Moderately dangerous criminals who could be safety supervised in groups outside the prison, but kept away from major population centres eg. offsetting the work given to illegal immigrants digging up crops in the country,

Non violent offenders who could be supervised in populated districts, once against offsetting illegal immigrant work by cleaning outdoors and more controversially engaging in a regulated sex industry
 
Last edited:
Hmmm said:
What should we do when people are executed, and then found innocent?
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent
Click to expand...

Try to do better the next time, and move on. Pretty much like we do. Maybe add "Sorry" to their marker?
Hmmm said:
Look the other way? Is it worth it? Is it worth taking the life of someone because they were thought to be guilty when they really weren't? "Oppps! My bad!"?
Click to expand...

Can't make an omelet with out breaking a few eggs.


Hmmm said:
Or is it really manslaughter or even murder? What makes the state any better than the criminals they house when they can stomach taking the life of someone, but then finds they were innocent all along?
Click to expand...

Depends on the country. In democracy's the state represents the will of the majority. Does not mean they are perfect.


Hmmm said:
Or is this all in the name of "justice"?
Click to expand...

Hit the nail on the head.

It is kind of like this topic. A new method of capital punishment

It does not matter if a new "less cruel" method can be found. Those that don't believe in capital punishment are not going to accept it.
 
Chukpike said:
Try to do better the next time, and move on. Pretty much like we do. Maybe add "Sorry" to their marker?

Can't make an omelet with out breaking a few eggs.
Click to expand...

Even if you believe in capital punishment, it must be 100% sure you have the right person. The omelet story is all nice and dandy, until it is your son that just got wrongly executed. Dead means you can never turn it back and there is no price on the life of an innocent.

So I stick to the humane method of those who are guilty beyond a doubt and imply that they would kill again as soon as they are out on the streets again...
 
Ted said:
Even if you believe in capital punishment, it must be 100% sure you have the right person. The omelet story is all nice and dandy, until it is your son that just got wrongly executed. Dead means you can never turn it back and there is no price on the life of an innocent.
Click to expand...
"Even if you believe in capital punishment, it must be 100% sure you have the right person."
No, just beyond a reasonable doubt. (I have jury duty starting on October 13th, suggest everyone be good until after that date).;)

Who of us is truely innocent?
"you can never turn it back"
Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Ted said:
So I stick to the humane method of those who are guilty beyond a doubt and imply that they would kill again as soon as they are out on the streets again...
Click to expand...

What????????
 
I don't know why we did away with the axe. It's free (no ammo) and quick. I'd rather get beheaded by an axe than cooked alive from the inside out in the chair, I know that. Even if I'm conscious for 20 seconds after the chop. If you're afraid of the executioner going insane you can pick some volunteers from the prison population. I'm sure someone will be down. And who really knows if the lethal injection is painless; those guys are on drugs to immobilize them while the poison does its job. I'm just thinking about price here, I don't give a flying f*** what you do to those who are convicted beyond any doubt. If they don't want misery, they shouldn't bring it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top